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GrantLee63
05-19-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm contemplating the purchase of a Wine / Mead Filter and thought the results of this poll would help make my decision easier.

If you use a Buon Vino, what filter pads to you use? The #1, #2, or the #3? If you use the Enolmatic filler with the filter cannister option do you use the 5, 1, or .45 micron size?

Looking forward to the results ! ;D

Dmntd
05-19-2006, 03:31 PM
Hey Grant,

I've filtered to meads, the first was infected (flowers of wine), the other I simply didn't want to wait for it to clear.

I used all three pads with the B.V for both, Never again.

The damned thing leaks all over the place making a sticky mess and filtering changed the character of the mead, aroma & flavor.

I might filter a batch to save it, MIGHT, but for my money... I'll brew and drink braggot and wait for the mead to clear on it's own.

Most of the braggot I make is clear in 2 - 3 weeks (ready to bottle), and carbonated in 5 - 10 days.

Dmntd

DarkStar
05-19-2006, 06:47 PM
I only filtered one mead with my mini-jet a couple months ago but I have used it for wine for a year and have loved it. Most of the time I use the #1 filters for reds and for whites wines use #2, and you do have to use the filters in sequence for proper operation. The number 3 is a .5 micron filter for sterile filtration which is hardly used. Must use all 3 pads at a time and they must be the same. I might lose a cup of wine when I filter It is very important to keep the plates very tight to stop most of the leakage.

Filtered wine can go through bottle shock that needs a month or 2 to come out of it.

WRATHWILDE
05-19-2006, 07:31 PM
GrantLee63,

I have an Enolmatic filler and love it, I don't have the filter option yet but am planning an upgrade soon. Oskaar has the Enlomatic with filter.



I recently purchased an Enolmatic filler/filter and a .4 micron filter to run it through the filter and remove the yeast and bacteria in order to stop it at target SG if I have a batch that is going longer and may run past my final brix/SG target.

With a .4 filter, you remove the yeast, and you will not affect the flavor, color or aroma. Anything smaller and you lose character, pigment and flavor.

BTW, morebeer.com will match St Pat's prices on just about anything you order. Talk to Olin if you have any problems.

Oskaar


Wrathwilde

Oskaar
05-19-2006, 10:14 PM
snip ... The number 3 is a .5 micron filter for sterile filtration which is hardly used. ... snip


From what I've seen and read you have to go down to .2 for a sterile filtration to get the bacteria floating around in the mead. Problem is once you go there you lose some pigment and flavor at that low level.

I know a number of folks who are commercial mead makers that are using .45 to polish their mead without losing flavor and color.

See here (http://www.gotmead.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,103/topic,2650.msg21435#msg21435) for a link to a previous discussion thread.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

GrantLee63
05-21-2006, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the info .... guess not that many here filter their meads as I thought I would have had thousands of responses to my poll by now ! :D

Although I'm still undecided if I should even get one at all, based on the research I've done on the 'net, I would probably get the Buon Vino Super Jet if I were to buy one today. But then again, $300 + dollars will buy a LOT of honey ! ;D ;D ;D

Oskaar
05-21-2006, 04:43 PM
Hey Dude,

From the folks at www.morebeer.com rent both the buon vino and the enolmatic. Based on what I'm hearing back from them when people filter/fill their wine they'll generally go for the buon vino, but then a significant number of the return it and end up using the Enolmatic. They come back and indicate that the Enolmatic was more effective and easier to use.

Take that for what it's worth, but the design just seems to be a bit more ergonomic from where I sit.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

GrantLee63
05-21-2006, 05:10 PM
That does help Oskaar ..... Thanks ! I sure would love to hear from some folks who have the Enolmatic WITH the filter option .... seems like you can have your cake and eat it too ( bottling AND filtering at the same time ) .....

Pewter_of_Deodar
05-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Please don't miss what Oskaar said about the smaller filters. If you filter small enough to guarantee no yeast gets through (0.5 micro absolute or less), you will lose color and most importantly you will lose FLAVOR. What I have been taught is that the impact to flavor begins when the filters get down to 2.0 micron or less. So while I was thinking that filtering might be a safe way to avoid sulfites/sulfates for preventing refermentation, I am still searching for another method...

Thurisaz
05-23-2006, 01:32 PM
Filters are for wimps >:D

GrantLee63
05-23-2006, 02:10 PM
Now Thurisaz .... Look at me - I used a self-portrait of myself for my Avatar ..... DO I LOOK LIKE A WIMP !!!!! ;D ;D ;D

In any event, after some additional research (now I know how to use the CORRECT Search Function ) and correspondence, it looks like an Enolmatic is in my future .....

Oskaar
05-23-2006, 06:02 PM
Please don't miss what Oskaar said about the smaller filters. If you filter small enough to guarantee no yeast gets through (0.5 micro absolute or less), you will lose color and most importantly you will lose FLAVOR. What I have been taught is that the impact to flavor begins when the filters get down to 2.0 micron or less. So while I was thinking that filtering might be a safe way to avoid sulfites/sulfates for preventing refermentation, I am still searching for another method...


Actually 0.2 micron is what is necessary for sterile filtration which would get all yeast and all spoilage bacteria that I know of. 0.45 is just fine for filtration and will not cause a loss of color or flavor.

Mike Faul of Rabbit's Foot Meadery and I had a nice discussion about this on the last night of the MeadFest. This is also pretty much a standard in the white and red wine world as well, and practiced widely in the industry.

Generally a 1 micron filter is fine for a medium polish of your mead/wine/whatever else you want to filter, and a nice clarity.

cheers,

Oskaar

Pewter_of_Deodar
05-24-2006, 05:30 PM
A little more research on the topic...

Buon Vino rates their filters as follows:

Coarse, micron rating 6.0
Polishing, micron rating 1.0
Sterile, micron rating .5

Vintage Shop rates theirs as follows:

Coarse Pad: Code GF1, Micron rating 2 - 7
Medium Filter Pad: Code GF3, Micron rating 1 - 4
Sterile Pad: Code GF5, Micron rating 0.4 - 0.6

Mini Jet rates theirs as follows:

Coarse Filter Pads - Micron Rating 6.0
Sterile Filter Pads - Micron Rating 1.0
Super Sterile Filter Pads - Micron Rating 0.5

Spadoni rates theirs as follows:

COARSE POLISH For slightly cloudy young wines 2 - 7 micron
MEDIUM POLISH For completely fermented wines 1 - 4 micron
BRILLIANT POLISH For completely fermented wines 0.5 - 1 micron
STERILE Typically for sweet wines and sparkling wines 0.4 - 0.6 micron (microbiological retention 99.998%, This grade is 'yeast' sterile but does not remove all bacteria)
SUPER STERILE For wines where absolute stability is required 0.3 - 0.5 micron (microbiological retention 99.999%, Removes yeast and bacteria)

Anyway, the point to be made is that a 0.5 micron filter will get the yeast out and probably save you money over the purchase of something finer than 0.5 micron.

Pewter_of_Deodar
05-24-2006, 06:03 PM
Some random quotes in support of not filtering too finely. I think that this collection generally reflects the line of thinking from which I have derived my opinions...

*****
The quintessential non-wine - no bouquet, no fruit, no flavor, and no finish. This wine, a hallmark to the excesses of modern day technology and those wonderful micropore sterile filters, is devoid of any personality, not to mention pleasure.

*****
Filtration
Controversial clarification process of pumping wine through various filters to remove suspended solids. If overdone, it may also strip out flavor.

*****
The advent of micropore sterile filters, so much in evidence at every modern winery, may admirably stabilize a wine, but, regrettably, these filters also destroy the potential of a wine to develop a complex aromatic profile. When they are utilized by wine producers who routinely fertilize their vineyards excessively, thus overcropping, the results are wines with an appalling lack of bouquet and flavor.

*****
The effect of excessive manipulation of wine, particularly overly aggressive fining and filtration, is dramatic. It destroys a wine's bouquet as well as its ability to express its TERROIR and varietal character. It also mutes the vintage's character. Fining and filtration can be done lightly, causing only minor damage, but most wines produced in the New World (California, Australia, and South America in particular) and most bulk wines produced in Europe are sterile-filtered. This procedure requires numerous prefiltrations to get the wines clean enough to pass through a micropore membrane filter. This system of wine stability and clarification strips, eviscerates, and denudes a wine of much of its character.

*****
Astonishingly, Johnson and Halliday conclude that consumers cannot tell the difference between a filtered and an unfiltered wine! In summarizing their position, they state, "but leave the wine for 1, 2, or 3 months (one cannot tell how long the recovery process will take), and it is usually impossible to tell the filtered from the non-filtered wine, provided the filtration at bottling was skillfully carried out." After 14 years of conducting such tastings, I find this statement not only unbelievable but insupportable! Am I to conclude that all of the wonderful wines I have tasted from cask that were subsequently damaged by vigorous fining and filtration were bottled by incompetent people who did not know how to filter? Am I to think that the results of the extensive comparative tastings (usually blind) that I have done of the same wine, filtered versus unfiltered, were bogus? Are the enormous aromatic, flavor, textural, and qualitative differences that are the result of vigorous clarification techniques figments of my imagination?

*****
You know the feeling -- you open a bottle of Australian or California Chardonnay and not only is there no bouquet (because it was sterile-filtered), but tasting the wine is like biting into a fresh lemon or lime.

*****
And the discussion of a myth, #10

10. This wine is closed and needs time because it has just been recently bottled.


The malady of the bottling is a myth because anybody who bottles naturally, with very low SO2 and no fining or filtering, knows perfectly well that the wine tastes just as good in the bottle as it did in the cask. However, we are modern-day industrialists or, as we say, "wine processors." We utilize large quantities of sulfur, and, in addition, we eviscerate our wines by abusive fining and filtering. Thus we use the "maladie la mise" excuse to justify the poor performance of our wines. If the truth be known, our wines have been stripped, nuked, and denuded, and they are incapable of improvement in the future.

*****
FILTERING: A process of "cleaning up" a wine used after fermentation (and before bottling); similar to running coffee through a filter, but arguably not always necessary to produce fine wine. The purpose of filtering is to remove sediment, grape skins, dead yeast, etc., from the wine. Filtering can range from very fine to coarse; however, it is increasingly being minimized (or avoided whenever possible) because the finer the filtering, the more flavors and character are stripped from the wine. Many wineries are using the more labor-intensive, old-fashioned practices of fining or racking to clarify wines these days. Historically, many filters before the 1980's were made from asbestos.

*****
When and where to use heavy filtering and fining is highly controversial, since removing these substances prevents the wine from obtaining flavors from them, affecting the character of the wine. You are certain to hear complaints about "over fined and fi ltered wine." The implication is that such wines will have less flavor. For this reason some wines will say on the bottle that they are "unfiltered."

*****
The Meilach book recommends initially starting out with coffee filters to remove remaining solids, and in the beginning I did that for a few months. But it requires amazing patience, and a lot of coffee filters. The particles of fruit block up the holes in the filters very quickly, so in short order the filters are completely clogged, and you have to put in another. It became clear to me that coffee filters were too fine a mesh to use for first-level filtration. Since those early days, I have started using paper towels as primary filters. They're much more porous than coffee filters, and consequently let a lot more solid material pass, but I hand-wave that problem away by reminding myself that the bottles will usually be consumed long before I have any problems.

*****
Filtration
Controversial clarification process of pumping wine through various different sorts of filters to remove suspended solids. If overdone, it may also strip out flavor.


Anyway, a lot of food for thought...

I still don't have a good alternative... Suggestions anyone?