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Adam_MA
11-26-2007, 10:58 AM
I've got a couple of questions about bottling. First, what does everyone prefer for sterilizing their glass prior to bottling? Also, after you have put the sterilizing solution into the bottle and rinsed, does the bottle have to be completely dry before putting your wine into the bottle? Or is some residual moisture left from rinsing OK to have?

Medsen Fey
11-26-2007, 01:46 PM
Hello Adam,

In answer to your question, I rather like iodophor. It is relatively cheap, very fast, requires no rinsing and is friendly to stainless steel, so I use it for sanitizing most of my equipment including bottles. If you do a forum search you can find several threads on sanitizing bottles or equipment, and generally the sanitizers can be used for either. A little moisture, as long it is not from something that requires rinsing, creates no problem.

A poll was done some time ago on sanitizer preference- you can see the results HERE. (http://www.gotmead.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=412&topic=2845.0)

Some other information on sanitizing bottles can be seen HERE. (http://www.gotmead.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,412/topic,6028.0)

The use of dishwashers is discussed HERE. (http://www.gotmead.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,412/topic,4424.0)

The newbee area of the GotMead site (not the forums) has a nice section on sanitation HERE. (http://www.gotmead.com/content/view/332/14/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=332&Itemid=14)

Good Luck,
Medsen

wayneb
11-26-2007, 02:55 PM
I use Star-San because it is almost as quick as Iodophor, and at dilute concentrations it is completely compatible with septic systems and biodegrades relatively quickly. It also doesn't stain most fabrics. The down sides are that despite its claim of being no-rinse, I can't bring myself to leave "suds" of any kind behind when I've rinsed a vessel with it, so I do rinse after use. Also, it does start to break down after mixing with water and being exposed to the air, so you shouldn't plan on using it past about a week or two post-dilution.

Adam_MA
11-26-2007, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the info and the links!

Pewter_of_Deodar
11-26-2007, 04:47 PM
I'd recommend that you always rinse "no-rinse" cleansers from the bottles by flushing the bottles a few times with full hot water from the faucet. Then place them somewhere to drip dry. A little residual water will not harm your brew if you bottle while the bottles are still wet inside...

I remember once, a couple years back, where Wrathwilde sent a sample of an early batch to Oskaar and Oskaar's most significant complaint was that he could taste the sanitizer (the bottle had not been rinsed after using a "no-rinse").

Good luck,
Pewter

Adam_MA
11-27-2007, 08:34 AM
By principal, I am forced to rinse all "no-rinse" cleaners from my equipment as it is now, so I don't think I would be able to use in while bottling and not rinse before actually putting my brew in.

Oskaar
11-27-2007, 10:57 PM
I'd recommend that you always rinse "no-rinse" cleansers from the bottles by flushing the bottles a few times with full hot water from the faucet. Then place them somewhere to drip dry. A little residual water will not harm your brew if you bottle while the bottles are still wet inside...

I remember once, a couple years back, where Wrathwilde sent a sample of an early batch to Oskaar and Oskaar's most significant complaint was that he could taste the sanitizer (the bottle had not been rinsed after using a "no-rinse").

Good luck,
Pewter


This is incorrect. See here (http://www.gotmead.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,412/topic,1620.msg25317#msg25317) for the entire write up on the Honey Maple Mead (Acerglyn) Wrathwilde sent to me.

The bottle was sanitized with bleach which is not a "no-rinse" sanitizer. I use no rinse sanitizers all the time. Not once have I had anyone indicate that they were able to detect sanitizer in the flavor of the mead or on the bottle. There's actually a write up here in got mead that pretty much blows any notions about being able to detect no-rinse sanitizers when used in the proper dosage. Generally when you can detect no-rinse sanitizer it is due to carelessness, overmixing or just plain poor technique.

Cheers,

Oskaar

Adam_MA
11-28-2007, 08:51 AM
Thank you Oskaar!
I actually found a link in one of the links above that brought me to http://www.basicbrewing.com They have a bunch of downloadable interviews and such. In one of the interviews, they were talking with a guy from the company that makes Iodophor, and he said that exact same thing. I actually learned quite a bit about sanitizing.

Adam_MA
12-11-2007, 03:00 PM
So the other day I was in my local brew store and I started picking up and reading the different sanitizers they had. When I went to the counter with a bottle of Iodiphor, the lady behind the counter asked me if I was going to be using it for sanitizing bottles or equipment for beer or wine. I told her that my immediate need is to sanitize for bottling wine, but that I also have cider and mead that will be ready soon. She told me that Iodiphor was not an appropriate chemical for sanitizing wine bottles, and that the "only" acceptable way was to use Sodium Metabisulfite. I didn't have any other information on this, and wanted to know what the experts here had to say on the subject.

UprightJoe
12-11-2007, 03:50 PM
I've been told not to use Idophor for wine/mead because it alters the flavor slightly. I don't know that I believe it - but I've heard it a lot so I abide by it for now. My question is: If it affects the taste of wine, why doesn't it affect the taste of beer as well?

I have a small variety of no-rinse cleansers (Including Idophor) in my cabinet. Most recently, I've been using Sodium Metabisulfite (campden tablets) for wine/mead almost exclusively. If I remember correctly, my method comes from "The Joy of Home Winemaking" by Terry Garey. I crush 13 campden tablets and mix them into a pint of water in a mason jar. After a good cleaning, I rinse carboys and bottles with this solution and return it to the jar. She says it is safe to use as long as it smells of sulfur. I'm not sure where that line is so I error on the conservative side and mix up a new batch whenever I'm in doubt.

I do not rinse the equipment with water afterwards. In the case of bottles, I get out as much water as possible but don't worry about a few drops lingering here and there. After all, in most cases, I've put the same stuff into the wine itself so what will a few drops on the inside of the bottles hurt?

I think it's a good, time-proven way to go but if you are sensitive to sulfites - you'll want to use something else.

Pewter_of_Deodar
12-11-2007, 05:02 PM
I've been told not to use Idophor for wine/mead because it alters the flavor slightly. I don't know that I believe it - but I've heard it a lot so I abide by it for now.

I apologize for mixing up bleach with norinse/onestep (it was a couple of years ago and memories fade) but I still will continue with my "better safe than sorry" attitude of thoroughly rinsing whatever I use to sterilize containers before using them to ferment or to bottle.

Dip your finger in your no rinse sterilizer AFTER checking that it is safe to do so (I can't imagine something unsafe to consume being listed as no rinse). I did this a few months ago out at my wine making friend's place since he was not rinsing any of his grape handling machinery after spraying it down. I don't like the taste of the sanitizer. Is it a taste you want present in your brew? Would the taste add or detract? However, he continued to do it the way he liked to do it, which was no rinse.

Since this appears to be a preference issue with opinions on both sides, use what works for you...

UprightJoe
12-11-2007, 07:00 PM
My question regarding the various no rinse sanitizers isn't "Do they taste good or bad?". It's "Can you taste them in the final product?". I suspect that you cannot if they're used properly. Let's take the example of a 750ml wine bottle sanitized with Idophor at the recommended 12.5ppm. After dumping the bottle out, let's say you don't let it dry or do a particularly good job of shaking it out and there are 5ml left in the bottle. (I think 5ml is a pretty sloppy job. You would definitely have some sloshing about in the bottom.) After you fill it up, that gives you a concentration of 5ml / 750ml * 12.5ppm if my math is correct. That's a final concentration of roughly .08ppm. That's 8 parts of sanitizer for every 100 million parts of wine. Is that detectable by human senses? I honestly and truthfully don't know the answer - maybe it is. The human nose is quite remarkable. It seems unlikely to me though.

Here's an anecdotal account of an experiment with beer: http://www.bayareamashers.org/content/maindocs/iodophor.htm. It would be easy enough to replicate the experiment with mead. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime soon. There are some tasting experiments I've been meaning to do with tannin and acid. I could lump them all together into the same day.

In regard to Sodium Metabisulfite, I almost always use it to stabilize wine/mead prior to bottling (and I'm considering starting to use it in some situations when racking). If I'm already putting it directly in the wine - I'm not going to worry about rinsing traces of it off the bottles. That would be silly.

Maybe that's a partial answer for you Adam_MA. If you plan on stabilizing with campden prior to bottling, choose a campden solution to sanitize as well. It's already in the mead so there's no need to worry about introducing a new contaminant.

Oskaar
12-11-2007, 08:19 PM
...snip...She told me that Iodiphor was not an appropriate chemical for sanitizing wine bottles, and that the "only" acceptable way was to use Sodium Metabisulfite. I didn't have any other information on this, and wanted to know what the experts here had to say on the subject.


She's full of sh!t.

Cheers,

Oskaar

akueck
12-11-2007, 10:08 PM
Hehe, my thoughts too. Beware the "only" solution.

I've used iodophor and starsan for bottles and can't taste either, nor can I detect a difference between them. I don't rinse, and usually the bottles are quite wet while bottling (they spend some amount of time inverted on a tree, but never fully dry). Heck, the starsan bubbles get pushed out by the liquid as the bottles fill, and those bottles taste fine. :cheers:

Adam_MA
12-12-2007, 08:06 AM
She's full of sh!t.

Cheers,

Oskaar


Thank you. That's what I was looking for, a clear concise no BS answer! That's why I love reading this forum!

teljkon
12-13-2007, 04:05 AM
I always boil my bottles in my beer kettle!


Warning Got mead does not feel that this is a safe practice use it at your own risk
:happy10: