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View Full Version : Help with my next Momel....



KarmaBoB
02-02-2008, 11:41 PM
So my first momel didn't;t come out that great. So I thought I would post my ingredients and get some ideas on ratios and stuff like that. I'm still quite a newbie when it comes to mead making.

So here is what I have. Also let me add that I only do 1 gall batches of mead. I'm looking to do 2 Cyser/momels.

10lbs Elias honey (if your not sure what this is I started a thread here "http://www.gotmead.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=412&topic=6346.0"

20lbs mesquite.

1lbs frozen organic blueberry's
1lbs frozen organic raspberries

1 gallon 100% juice apple cider
1 gallon 100% juice grape juice

Some champagne yeast and some Ale yeast.

I'd like to do a momel with a blueberry-raspberry mix. 1st question: Should I add some juice to the momel? if so how much juice should I add to a 1 gallon batch in proportion to honey.

Maybe 1/2 gallon of juice to 3lbs of honey and 1lbs of fruit?

What are your guys thoughts or ideas/opinions?

I normally use 3-4lbs of honey per 1 gallon batch of mead.

Also what can I expect from an ale yeast? Specifically Nottingham's? Good results?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Yo momma
02-03-2008, 11:49 AM
To be honest to do a Cyser (apple based mead), I use a hydrometer to get how much honey is needed. Typically cider or apple juice is around 1.050 + or - some. Then I add the honey until it gets around 1.035+, then I add the fruits to this concoction. Take a reading and it will probably around 1.145. This is a good start to a cyser because they tend to go beyond there ABV standard. You will need a yeast that likes fruits like D-47 or KV-1116. I think that if your going to put fruit in the primary hten you need more. Unless this is what your looking for. Is this batch 5 or 6 gallon? 20 lbs. is alot of honey for a cyser while 10lbs is a less than what I would use. Do you have a hydrometer? If so I would use that to get what amount you need.

Are you going to do the whole liquid apple or are you using water to top it off to the specified amount?

Your recipe it incomplete when it somes to what amounts and what you are using for a base. ??? The more detail we get the better information we can give. Give a detailed discription of what your putting in as well as how you plan to brew this from beginning to end. Hope this helps.
:cheers:

KarmaBoB
02-03-2008, 12:43 PM
Thanks Yo mamma. Yeah I should have put down a more solid plan for eval. To be honest at the time of the post I wasn't sure what I was going to do. ;D Still not sure:)

To answer one question I only do 1 gallon mead batches. For the time being. I'm still new to mead making. I've been brewing beer for over a year. So I like to keep my batches small for expense sake for a bad batch.

I do own a Hydrometer but honestly I rarely use it. I know its a bad practice.

Here was my idea for my momel.


4lbs Elias honey

1 1/2 pounds of mixed frozen organic blueberry's and raspberries

1/2 gallon of 100% apple juice

Nottingham's ale yeast.


Here are my ideas on procedure. I like sweet meads so I'd like this to finish sweet with a strong berry presence coming through. With just a hint of apple in the background.


Take the half a gallon of apple juice and the frozen berries and bring up to a temp of 150? and steep fruit for 10-15 min? Then take water and honey bring up to close to boil add both to fermenter to get 1 gallon and pitch when right temp?

How does that sound?


And for my Cyser I was thinking of doing something with my grape juice and Elias honey and some Lavin EC-1118. I do know this one will finish dry but I'd like to try a dry mead.

Not sure on honey amounts for this one. any opinions would be helpful. But I'll keep it simple just juice, honey and yeast.

Big thanks again for any help and insights!

Medsen Fey
02-03-2008, 01:16 PM
Hello Bob,

4 lbs of honey, plus the sugar in the juice will create a high gravity must that may strain the yeast and lead to a stuck fermentation. Sometimes it is better to ferment it with a lower starting gravity and then stabilize and backsweeten to get it to the level of sweetness that you like.

How high do you want the alcohol? The ale yeast probably won't go as high as the Champagne yeast.

1 1/2 lbs berries to a gallon should give you a noticeable berry presence, but if you want it really strong, you may want to double it.

Using a hydrometer will help you if you run into a problem (such as a stuck batch) and it will help you to reproduce a good batch if you want to. I strongly recommend using one.

With such an unusual and rare honey, you might want to see what it will produce as a sweet traditional mead. You could always add berries into the seconday if you aren't thrilled with the result.

Medsen

KarmaBoB
02-03-2008, 01:29 PM
Fey,

I was shooting for the 8-10% range. Maybe bring the honey down to 3lbs? I've done some high gravity beers with the Nottingham's. I believe I did a stout with 10.3%abv. Nottingham's handled that well. Thought as long as I didn't break the 10% range with the ale yeast I should be ok.

I thought about doing a traditional mead with the Elias honey.

But I really like momels and fruit based meads....ehhh its my thing :icon_thumleft:


With the Cyser I know the EC-1118 with chew through the sugar no probs so for that one I'm still a little unsure of the amount of honey but I'm pretty sure I want to use all grape juice. but I think a 10-12% range for that yeast shouldn't be a problem.

Any suggestions on ratios for both recipes ideas?

Cheers,

KarmaBoB
02-03-2008, 01:32 PM
ohh had another question for the traditional mead..using a ale yeast with a abv of ohh lets say 8-10% what amounts of honey would you suggest?


Might just try a traditional with this rare honey might be something great!

Medsen Fey
02-03-2008, 02:41 PM
A really cool tool on the Main GotMead site (not the forums) is The Mead Calculator (http://www.gotmead.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=745&Itemid=16). Try playing with it a bit and it will give you some very useful info.

I'm not sure what the Nottingham yeast alcohol tolerance level is, and I did not see it listed on the Danstar website. I suspect it will probably go higher than 10%, but if you know about where it will stop, you can sweeten to a level higher than that, and it should finish sweet. If it goes dry you can backsweeten.

I don't think I would use EC-1118 if I wanted a sweet mead. It is a very strong fermenter that will chew up whatever sugar you give it up to around 18% alcohol or so. You will wind up with a very strong, very dry batch.

Going with the ale yeast, if I plug the numbers in (assuming I am doing it right using 0.5 gal grape juice), it would take less than 1.5 lbs of honey with the juice to get to the 10% level. If the yeast can get to 12%, using 2.5 lbs would probably give you a sweet mead with 12% - if it can't make it past 10%, then you will have a very sweet mead. If you really want to keep the alcohol low, use less honey in the fermentation and then backsweeten when it's done, that way you can first control the alcohol level, and then adjust the sugar level.

If you try the 2.5 lbs and it manages to ferment dry you will have 15.5% or so, and can then backsweeten. I think there is a good chance that the ale yeast won't be able to take it that far and you will end up with sweet mead.

I hope this is of some help,

Medsen

KarmaBoB
02-03-2008, 02:56 PM
Absolutely helpful thank you very much! Really great! :cheers:

Medsen Fey
02-04-2008, 12:05 PM
Please remember, the best way to get where you want is to use the hydrometer. Test your juice - be it grape or apple, and then add honey to get the Sp Gr where you want it. My guess is that you probably want to try a starting gravity of about 1.110. Depending on how much sugar your juice contains, and what type of honey you are using, you might need a lot less honey to bring it to that level. You can always add more honey in to make it sweeter before you are finished, but if you start out with too much and it winds up too sweet, you are sort of stuck.

Good meading,
Medsen

Yo momma
02-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Also keep in mind that the higher the ABV the longer it has to age for smoothness. This is the reason for some people using less of an OG (original gravity) so the yeast will chew faster and then they backsweeten for aging. Shorter aging times means faster drinkability! :drunken_smilie:
Although, I like higher ABV so I start mine at 1.130+ on just about every mead and 1.110 on wine. It takes a little longer to age but OH BOY does it taste and feel great.

In my experience when you use Apple Juice for a base, the yeast tend to go beyond there ABV by 1-2% on just about every batch. You could probably use your beer yeast and still get it around 12% or so. Just a thought. I think Medsen has covered just about everything else. Keep us in the loop.

PS Yes! the hydrometer in mead and wine making is an important and invaluable tool. If you start using one while doing this hobby, you will see that in full detail. It is the only way that you know exactly where your mead/wine is starting, going and ending up.
:cheers: