PDA

View Full Version : A mission! (I'm on the "scrounge")



fatbloke
07-12-2008, 06:04 AM
Ok, so the mission is.................Black Raspberries!

Whether some kind soul would help is a different matter.

What I'm after, is some Black Raspberry seed. This particular type of raspberries gets an excellent mention in the Mambo in the Mouth recipe in Ken Schramms book, but as far as I can find, the fruit isn't grown/available in the UK and I thought it might be an excellent idea to try and grow some.

I've asked about them and the differences a couple of times here - to see if there's a way of emulating the flavour, but it would seem not. Hence if someone might be able to dry a couple of fruit and post the seed, then I could try to cultivate them myself. Hence the only expense would be the cost of the stamps.

Am I being a cheeky b***** ? Yes probably, but it's the only way I can think of to be able to try some of the recipes that mention this specific type of raspberry fruit!

regards (in anticipation of some charitable soul :D)

fatbloke

happymondays
07-12-2008, 09:35 AM
You could get a young shrub from Here (http://www.korewildfruitnursery.co.uk/larger_shrubs.htm) John, I got some blueberry plants in spring although not from these people I did remember stumbling across this site on my travels so book marked it not bad prices either 5, don't know how big it would be but it would give you a head start from planting from seed,
:cheers:

p.s. they call it Blackcap but its one in the same

fatbloke
07-12-2008, 02:12 PM
You could get a young shrub from Here (http://www.korewildfruitnursery.co.uk/larger_shrubs.htm) John, I got some blueberry plants in spring although not from these people I did remember stumbling across this site on my travels so book marked it not bad prices either 5, don't know how big it would be but it would give you a head start from planting from seed,
:cheers:

p.s. they call it Blackcap but its one in the same
Now that's created a bit of a conundrum Scott, because a quick google suggests that it might not be "the" black raspberry (the "proper" one ???).

The wikipedia entry suggests that Rubus leucodermis "is" called black raspberry, but it's different from the "Eastern" black raspberry which is Rubus occidentalis albeit related.

I seem to recall (not having the book to hand) that Ken Schramm was quite specific about this fruit in the recipe because of it's distinct flavour! Hence my "begging letter". I'll probably see if that nursery can supply one of the plants they list, but I'd also have to look further into the differences as I didn't realise that there was more than one black raspberry (and I'd have to work out how much fruit I'd need - I think it was a 5 gallon recipe so I'd have to scale it down to a gallon).

If anyone can shed more light on this I'd be grateful.

regards

fatbloke

wayneb
07-14-2008, 12:08 PM
You could get a young shrub from Here (http://www.korewildfruitnursery.co.uk/larger_shrubs.htm) John, I got some blueberry plants in spring although not from these people I did remember stumbling across this site on my travels so book marked it not bad prices either 5, don't know how big it would be but it would give you a head start from planting from seed,
:cheers:

p.s. they call it Blackcap but its one in the same
Now that's created a bit of a conundrum Scott, because a quick google suggests that it might not be "the" black raspberry (the "proper" one ???).

The wikipedia entry suggests that Rubus leucodermis "is" called black raspberry, but it's different from the "Eastern" black raspberry which is Rubus occidentalis albeit related.

I seem to recall (not having the book to hand) that Ken Schramm was quite specific about this fruit in the recipe because of it's distinct flavour! Hence my "begging letter". I'll probably see if that nursery can supply one of the plants they list, but I'd also have to look further into the differences as I didn't realise that there was more than one black raspberry (and I'd have to work out how much fruit I'd need - I think it was a 5 gallon recipe so I'd have to scale it down to a gallon).

If anyone can shed more light on this I'd be grateful.

regards

fatbloke


FB, the eastern North American black raspberry is so easily propagated by cuttings that seeds of it are rarely sold. In fact, the plant is so invasive and prolific that wherever it is found it is often regarded as a weed. These plants grow almost EVERYWHERE in Northeast Ohio, where I grew up. I don't know if you will have much success in finding commercial seeds of the occidentalis anywhere.

Generally the only commercially available blackberry canes are of leucodermis, since that is where commercial cultivation and production first started in earnest in this country. However, the western variant is so closely related to our east coast plant that those sources of leucodermis will likely provide you with plants that provide fruits virtually indistinguishable from occidentalis -- unless you are a black raspberry gourmand. ;)

I would bet that Ken used occidentalis in his Mambo recipe simply because the plants are similarly, found everywhere in rural Michigan. He'd have happily used leucodermis if he were located in Oregon! ;D (Right, Ken...?)

fatbloke
07-14-2008, 05:11 PM
FB, the eastern North American black raspberry is so easily propagated by cuttings that seeds of it are rarely sold. In fact, the plant is so invasive and prolific that wherever it is found it is often regarded as a weed. These plants grow almost EVERYWHERE in Northeast Ohio, where I grew up. I don't know if you will have much success in finding commercial seeds of the occidentalis anywhere.

Generally the only commercially available blackberry canes are of leucodermis, since that is where commercial cultivation and production first started in earnest in this country. However, the western variant is so closely related to our east coast plant that those sources of leucodermis will likely provide you with plants that provide fruits virtually indistinguishable from occidentalis -- unless you are a black raspberry gourmand. ;)

I would bet that Ken used occidentalis in his Mambo recipe simply because the plants are similarly, found everywhere in rural Michigan. He'd have happily used leucodermis if he were located in Oregon! ;D (Right, Ken...?)
So you reckon that I should be OK getting one of the plants that Scott (happymondays) pointed me toward i.e. the "Blackcap"/leucodermis one ? and that should (in theory) give me a satisfactory result/version of Kens original recipe ???

What I was actually thinking of, was that if someone might remember, that they might be able to pick a couple of the fruit from the occidentalis, then dry them out naturally, then just wrap the seed in a small piece of tissue or something and pop it in an envelope/the post. The time/effort of growing them from seed wouldn't really be an issue, it's just that I'd like to make sure that I'd got the correct plants for the fruit and with the black raspberries (either) being relatively unheard of here in the UK, I wouldn't know the difference - certainly not from a flavour POV.

Even if it is considered a weed in some areas, I thought that I'd put it in a garden tub/half barrel or similar, to contain it - I mean, damn, normal red raspberries are enough of a PITA - we've had to dig over our raised patch twice now, to remove the "runners" - and so that they don't affect the carrots that are next to them!

Plus we've been given 2 unknown bramble/blackberry/raspberry plants in small pots - one of them "might" be a boisenberry, but until I can get them more established and fruiting, I don't know enough plant physiology to be able to tell - either way, It'd be worth the effort to try them, then if they are too rampant, they'll just get binned.

regards

fatbloke