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caps_phisto
10-14-2008, 07:28 PM
Apparently if you use this machine you get get some very nice aged wine. I wonder if anyone has any input on this device:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3115492/Ultrasound-machine-turns-cheap-plonk-into-fine-wine-in-30-minutes-says-inventor.html

I just wish it was cheaper....that way I could give it a try.

Yo momma
10-14-2008, 09:47 PM
Dude this is great. Maybe a brewclub could purchase one and see if it really works. I would love to have one so my turn around time would be better. Less hangovers means more mead drank. :drunken_smilie: :snorting:

wayneb
10-14-2008, 11:28 PM
Hmmm... this is something that I could try without too much time, money or trouble invested. We have a large ultrasonic cleaner tank at work (4 liter capacity) that I can borrow -- in the name of science, of course! :drunken_smilie:

sandman
10-14-2008, 11:34 PM
Ooo..ooo... Try it with a bottle of the Occult Noir. :snorting:

Odinsson
10-14-2008, 11:38 PM
Are you sure a cleaner wont be too strong and make the bottle explode?

wayneb
10-15-2008, 04:18 PM
This one has adjustable intensity. I'll just set it on low.

And Sandman, the ON hasn't been bottled yet, but as soon as it is, I'll give it a try! Should prove very interesting. I'm also gonna try it on my Rocket Fuel metheglyn, since that one will otherwise take a significant amount of aging time to mellow out.

caps_phisto
10-15-2008, 06:45 PM
For those interested I have found the order form!

Click (http://www.inventors-showcase.com/order_form)

Enjoy!

WayneB tell us how you make out! If you have success I might go ahead and save up!

Note: Fixed http tag for URL. Oskaar

Medsen Fey
10-15-2008, 06:51 PM
After reading THIS (http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=4115537), I am not so optimistic-

Ultrasound generally produced very small chemical changes including reduction in acidity, increase in pH, and decreased absorbance at 280 m mu (primarily due to phenolic compounds). Sensory changes, however, were definite. A panel of tasters judged that ultrasound slightly decreased hotness (except with O/sub 2/), increased oxidized flavors, decreased grape aroma, and slightly decreased bottle bouquet without increasing complexity (except with O/sub 2/). Over-all quality scores were usually decreased by ultrasound.

I would love to read this article in its entirety if anyone has access. Still, I don't want to discourage investigation. Wayne, please let us know what your results produce - as ever, mead may not behave the same way as wine.

Medsen

wayneb
10-15-2008, 07:38 PM
Medsen, leave it to you to find the scholarly paper detailing a scientific study of the effect! ;D

Based upon a reading of the entire abstract, I guess I should lobby for a cobalt-60 source at work, so I can try irradiation instead! :laughing7:

Medsen Fey
10-15-2008, 08:46 PM
Glow-in-the-dark mead! There's an idea.... :tongue3:

Kee
10-16-2008, 01:35 AM
I would LOVE to try this anyway. AZ is so hot; I know I have a few meads that it would improve.

I wish there was a way to test on one of my meads before I bought. I would even pay for the 1/2 hour treatment in the machine!

wayneb
10-16-2008, 10:35 AM
FWIW, I doubt that there is anything special about the ultrasonic machine that has been turned into the Wine Ager. Any jewelry or dental cleaner large enough to allow submersion of a few inches of the bottle into the cleaning tank, that also has an intensity control, should do the trick. I was poking around ebay a bit to see what else might be available that could work, and I found this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/GEMORO-1-2-QT-ULTRASONIC-CLEANER-DENTAL-TATTOO-New_W0QQitemZ230299388529QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 30299388529&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A13 18&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It isn't as large as the one I have at work, and the tank isn't as deep, but you'd certainly get enough immersion of any wine bottle in it to do the job. More to the point, including shipping it is likely to be sold under $100.

If my experiments with the unit at work prove fruitful, I'll probably pick up something like this for regular home use.

sandman
10-16-2008, 11:14 AM
If your experiments at work turn out well, I may bid against you for it. ;)

dogglebe
10-29-2008, 11:07 AM
This might be a better alternative:

http://www.perfectsommelier.com/

I know someone who's used it on wine and she said it works. And it's under fifty bucks.


Phil

buildmark
10-29-2008, 03:59 PM
do you think this would work good on a mead like the chocolate one that has a longer shelf time?

wayneb
10-30-2008, 10:59 AM
There's no way to say without trying it. I haven't been able to get my ultrasonic cleaner test done yet -- but as soon as I do, I'll post results here . I want to do it with a double blind A - B comparison as judged by some of my mead-drinking friends here, so it will be at least a semi-scientific (though not statistically significant) attempt.

punkideas
10-30-2008, 04:19 PM
If you can get me numerical data, I can run statistical analyses ;D

wayneb
10-30-2008, 11:26 PM
Cool! Somebody to check my work!! :laughing7:

Seriously, with a sample size of seven, no statistical analysis of any kind will be able to conclude anything about anything -- but we'll have a damned good time accumulating anecdotal data!! :cheers:

Vino
10-31-2008, 04:46 PM
Before I built my wine cellar, I converted an old refrigerator with a temperature controller to maintain 55F...A friend who works for a distributor told me the vibration of the compressor would cause problems with the wine...So when I built the cellar, I mounted the compressor outside and the coils and fan in the wall with a rubber gasket to isolate it from the wall.

After the cellar was built my friend and I did an experiment by placing a bottle of 05' Martinelli Pinot Noir in both units and waited 1 year to test them (his dime)...It was amazing we tried them straight from the bottle and then through a Vinturi aerator...and in both cases the bottle from the converted refrigerator seemed "hot"...it was as if the alcohol had separated from the grape and water.

I'm not sure what the ultrasound unit will do in the short term, but it seems the results would be comparable.

Also the article mentions turning bad wine into good...from what I've read most of you produce some great stuff, so you shouldn't need it. :icon_thumright:

capoeirista13
12-01-2008, 03:58 AM
did you ever get that test done wayneb?

wayneb
12-04-2008, 12:27 AM
Not yet. I've been way too busy with work, etc., to do much mead experimentation, and I've been traveling nearly every week for the past couple of months; I haven't been home enough to borrow the ultrasonic cleaner from work yet.

wildaho
12-17-2008, 05:45 PM
Found this article (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026873.500-how-to-make-cheap-wine-taste-like-a-fine-vintage.html) on New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/) today. Instead of ultrasound, they are using electric fields. Anybody else see some potential here? The article seems to documented and cited fairly well but I would like to do some further research on it.

They also mention the ultrasound method at the end.


Faking it

Hervé Alexandre, professor of oenology at the University of Burgundy, rates some of the latest attempts to speed-age wine.ULTRASOUNDDevices based on ultrasound pop up regularly. October saw the launch of the Quantum Wine Ager, which its inventor claims (http://www.inventors-showcase.com/invention_of_the_week) will turn a £3.99 bottle of plonk into something that tastes as if it costs hundreds.Verdict: "I'm a bit sceptical. Ultrasound might increase some reactions but a lot of rigorous experiments must be done before concluding that it works. When the wine is of low quality there is no miracle that will transform it into a bottle of the finest vintage."

wayneb
12-17-2008, 10:13 PM
I had not seen it yet, and since I'm in ABQ again this week, I have very little time to read stuff (even getting online is a chore). But I'll check it out later in the week when I'm home.

BTW, New Scientist, although a British publication (and thus somewhat more reputable than the likes of Popular Science here on this side of the pond), is known for publishing "not quite ready for primetime" articles from time to time -- I'll have to dig into this deeply enough to convince myself that it isn't just pseudoscience.

sandman
12-18-2008, 11:22 PM
Well, I for one KINETIC find any CURRENT information here that would LEAD me to a POSITIVE or NEGATIVE position on either of these links. Call me BIPOLAR but I just seem to run AC/DC on these kind of CHARGED (p)articles. In the end, I suppose I BATTERY just make and age my meads like I’ve always done.

wildaho
12-18-2008, 11:50 PM
There are definitely some holes in your theory Sandman. Ion thinking that we should probe this one deeper. Maybe it's just my magnetic personality, but I field there is more to this than simple surface effect. Litz wire this one down and get to the flux of the matter. Resistance is futile, although I do have the capacity to chip in.

Wire you afraid to make a stand? I bet you could generate either a plus or minus decision on the issue. It's re-volt-ing that you won't. Coulomb, you can do it!

Call me on my cell when you do.

Is this another thread to be inducted into the Pun Hall (effect) of Fame?

8)

sandman
12-19-2008, 12:09 AM
Maybe we should take a pole to electron the impedance of these two highly charged opinions. I know I’m taking a rather direct approach to the current topic, but since this is my first real effort, I need to develop a list of puns to spark the right amount of resistance from the masters.

I don't know, maybe I should just nuke this line of thought and see if I can't radiate some interest in using another form of energy.

WRATHWILDE
12-19-2008, 08:32 AM
Sandman & Wildaho,

You have just been inducted to Oskaar & Wrathwide's Pun Masters Union #OIDH82BU, probationary status of course. We meet to air our wines. There will always be those who can't contain their spirits and pop their corks prematurely... they need to learn to keep things bottled up longer, IMNSHO.

Have to shovel snow, off to work... possibly.

Cheers,
Wrathwilde

osluder
12-19-2008, 03:57 PM
Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted. — Fred Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Allen)

sandman
12-20-2008, 02:00 AM
I’m now radiating with a new core of energy. The others will all be blue with envy. (Yes I do mean blue. Contrary to popular belief core material does glow blue rather than green… been there, done that, seen the glow, quite a show) ;)
While I rarely wine, I regularly mead to hive a group discussion about my colony of recipes. I’m also always buzzing to find out what input my queen has to submit. I may bee out of my mind, but my honey always ends up giving me input. Then I take an informal poll(en) my kids add in their ideas. I’m not trying to make aphid(eral) case out of anything, but I hive my ways and others hive theirs.

No snow down here... It was about 60 and partly cloudy down here this afternoon.

wildaho
12-20-2008, 05:14 AM
Cherenkov said it well Sandman. I sometimes feel blue too.

But, to be true to the thread without a highjack (and that is hard to do when punning) we probably should stick to the topic.

Let me sound you out on the on the ultra importance of caps_phisto's original post vs. my later method. Will ultrasound age your mead or is an electrical field more effective?

Aegean your meads the old fashioned way might have been fine for the ancient Greeks but I think we can do it quicker. Our ferments are measured in weeks now instead of months or years. Can't we find a way to make the enjoyment phase happen sooner? I might be 180 degrees out here, but I think we can.

Maybe we should walk the Planck on this one. There are constants involved here but which of those constants are actually variables when we throw in other forms of energy? It could be a quantum shift.

Avogadro now, we'll continue later...

sandman
12-20-2008, 12:10 PM
All kidding aside, I'd love to find out there was a "magic bullet" to age wines/meads in a fraction of the time actual time requires, but I'm fairly skeptical about both the magnetic and ultrasonic options here. I'd seriously need to be an actual part of a real life demonstration before I plonked down the money for this fairly attractive shortcut.