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Medsen Fey
06-02-2009, 02:30 PM
I saw this piece of news (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_sc/us_sci_ancient_pottery) today where they have found pottery shards dating from 18,000 years ago in Yuchanyan Cave.


"Pottery initially serves as a cooking and storage facility. Later on, some pottery vessels become symbols of power and social status, as well as examples of art," Lu said. "Pottery is still an important part of human culture today."


Yeah, cooking and storage. We got that. It'll be interesting to see if they find any evidence of fermented beverages from this site. You gotta figure, as soon as someone figured how to make a pot, one of Oskaar's ancestors was there figuring out how to ply the redheads with his brew. ;D

wayneb
06-02-2009, 04:11 PM
I see they quote Patrick McGovern in this article. He's become the "go to" recognized expert in early drink storage systems!

Dan McFeeley
06-03-2009, 09:59 AM
I also saw that McGovern has a new book out, "Uncorking the Past." That should be a good one! I'll have to go looking for a copy . . .

Medsen Fey
06-03-2009, 10:50 AM
I also saw that McGovern has a new book out, "Uncorking the Past." That should be a good one!

I'm looking forward to it, though I'm still plodding through "Ancient Wine." It is a bit dry, but loaded with facts in a very academic style. While it is slow reading, I am actually learning a lot from it.

One thing that came through was that most all of the ancient wine samples show evidence of Terebinth Tree resin which was probably added as a preservative (and flavoring agent? it would certainly have left a flavor good or bad). It has me interested in trying to create a brew using terebinth resin, but I have been unable to locate any.

Yes, there are pine resins and many other potential resins that could be used as a substitute, but I would really like to make a batch using authentic Terebinth resin. I understand it is still used in the Middle East, sometimes in chewing gum. Does anyone have any idea where it can be obtained?

Medsen

wildoates
06-03-2009, 11:51 AM
I know someone living in Yemen right now...I'll ask.

Dan McFeeley
06-03-2009, 12:23 PM
I'm looking forward to it, though I'm still plodding through "Ancient Wine." It is a bit dry, but loaded with facts in a very academic style. While it is slow reading, I am actually learning a lot from it.

One thing that came through was that most all of the ancient wine samples show evidence of Terebinth Tree resin which probably added as a preservative (and flavoring agent? it would certainly have left a flavor good or bad). It has me interested in try to create a brew using terebinth resin, but I have been unable to locate any.

Yes, there are pine resins and many other potential resins that could be used as a substitute, but I would really like to make a batch using authentic Terebinth resin. I understand it is still used in the Middle East, sometimes in chewing gum. Does anyone have any idea where it can be obtained?

Medsen

I have McGovern's book on Ancient Wine also, like all of his stuff, well worth reading through. McGovern is a fascinating person, brilliant scholar, think he's still living in the basement of the museum where he set up a home with he and his wife, seems more comfortable with his spade beard and flannel shirts.

Terebinth resin -- Ken Schramm has had some speculations on this, he might want to weigh in on this thread.

Really fascinating how these wines have persisted in the Greek Retsina style wine.

Dan McFeeley
06-03-2009, 12:37 PM
Still thinking on this -- one of our older members, Miriam Kresh, might know something about terebinth resin . . . she doesn't visit as regularly as she used to, but I think I can get her attention.

wildoates
06-05-2009, 09:46 PM
Well, my friend in Yemen sent this back:
Sorry, Terebinth resin is evidently a Syrian product historically, and is not avaiable here, although we can buy Frankincense off the street in almost any of the major shopping areas - people use it as a kind of chewing gum, and also burn it as incense. It's cheap, but has almost no flavor :), so no joy there. I don't know anyone in Syria, but I do have a friend going to Morocco and Cairo this summer, so I'll ask her to see if she can find some for you.

afdoty
06-07-2009, 04:04 PM
One thing that came through was that most all of the ancient wine samples show evidence of Terebinth Tree resin which was probably added as a preservative (and flavoring agent? it would certainly have left a flavor good or bad). It has me interested in trying to create a brew using terebinth resin, but I have been unable to locate any.

One of my sisters in laws is from Lebanon. She remembers as a child a chewing gum made with wax (bees wax??) and a resin. She wasn't sure what it was. However it was and still is very popular. She thought that an Arabic grocery store might carry it.

Also, the Terebinth Tree is called a bunch of different names. Maybe the resin is available under a different name?


Common names: Turpentine tree, terebinth tree (English); térébinthe, pistachier térébinthe (French); Tarpentinpistazie, Terpentinbaum (German); terebinto, pistacchio terebinto, corno frassano, scotano campestre, pistacchio giallo (Italian); botom (Arabic), other vernacular names: bel‘ās, ‘alk el-botom, ‘alk al-jabal (the resin of the tree); thamāra, (the fruits); habbet khadrā` (the fruits); ‘afas (the galls, often the leaves of Pistacia atlantica have galls, produced by Pemphigus utricularis Pass.).

wildoates
06-07-2009, 08:55 PM
In Scientific American, no less...complete with semi-buxom beer wench (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=9000-year-old-brew-hitting-the-shel-2009-06-05&).

wildaho
06-08-2009, 02:19 AM
In Scientific American, no less...complete with semi-buxom beer wench (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=9000-year-old-brew-hitting-the-shel-2009-06-05&).

I saw this earlier tonight and got a serious kick out of it. BUT our own Brimminghorn had a hand in the initial brew of this, he is a brewer and cellarman at DogFishHead. You might also want to check out wayneb's thread where he made this his own brew following the recipe as close as he could! Wayne took even more care to match the original recipe, including sprouting and malting his own rice.

I would love to be able to provide links to both guys on the issue but a quick search on either author and/or subject will pull up quite a few threads.

Damn, if I could only find a native american rock painting with a mead recipe on the rocks around here...

wildoates
06-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Indeed...the person who gave the link to me thought I'd interested, and I of course was, but I was also a bit smug that I already knew about this because of the Gotmead connection (noob that I am and all that :)).

I loves me some science.

And in a previously mentioned and related topic, my girlfriend who is going off to Africa this summer e-mailed me back about the Terebinth Resin:


Sure no big deal, just another muslim boarding a plane with chemicals.
HA, I'll see what I can do.

So we'll see if she brings some home in August. If you hear about mouthy little brown girl in a hijab getting the once over by the feds for suspicious resin in her baggage, you'll know who it is.
:eek:


(Today is the first day of my summer break, so forgive me for being a bit giddy)