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Medsen Fey
08-13-2009, 06:16 PM
I was reading over Erroll Ozgencil's honey boiling comparison (http://www.washingtonwinemaker.com/blog/2008/10/28/making-mead-testing-the-controversy-over-boiling/) once again. In this he made two batches of heather mead - one boiled and one not and after considerable aging, blind tasted them. In this test, the boiled batch had less aroma, but had better body and was considered better overall.

Now I have previously pointed out a couple of issues here. For one, the boiled batch had a slightly higher gravity and had 1% ABV more than the non-boiled. That could give a mead more body and might make it "better." Also, the tasting was not a triangular test leaving more room for bias. I'm not here to criticize Erroll - quite the contrary; I applaud him for testing this side by side and sharing the results.

Boiling mead must was a tried and true practice throughout history. Although most of us shudder at the thought of boiling away those delicate aromatics, there may in fact be some honeys that do make better mead when boiled. Heather might be an example, being very strong and bitter. Perhaps some honeys with more phenolics like eucalyptus, or possibly mint; maybe even eastern buckwheat.

While we tend to always discourage boiling for new mead makers, I haven't seen a lot of side by side comparisons posted. I'm sure some of you have done some (Wayne? Pete? Vicky?) along the way but the data has never been compiled. If I'm going to keep suggesting to people that they don't boil their must, I'd really like to have some data to back that up.

Hence my thought that this could be a fun and easy group brew project to collect a whole bunch of data point. It would be nice to try side by side comparisons with a variety of honeys, with different levels of sweetness, different yeast, different alcohol levels, etc. Who knows, you might find that dry heather mead is better boiled, but sack strength sweet heather mead is better without boiling. If there are particular combinations that do come out better with boiling, that would be great information to have for the future.

So it might be really cool for anyone that wants to participate to make two identical batches (small or large - you decide) using the same honey, gravity, nutrients, acid, yeast, temperature, etc (you make the call on each parameter) with one boiled and one not. Then keep track of the rates of fermentation and clearing, and then bottle them up and compare them (with a bit of triangular tasting) after whatever amount of aging you deem suitable. We could very quickly (hey 1-2 years in meadmaking time ain't much) build a database that helps answer the question, "when is it better to boil your must (if ever)?"

Is anyone else interested in trying this?

Sunny
08-13-2009, 09:29 PM
Great idea...I'm in! I've often wondered about this too. My first batch of mead was the only one that I've made in which the must was boiled. (I have to say that it's one of my favorites of all time.) Then I discovered this wonderful forum and decided that I would no longer heat my musts at all. I've often wondered if that 1st batch would have been better or worse if the must had not been boiled. I did not keep notes on that 1st batch but the honey was produced by my local apiary who said it's from wildflowers.
I recently purchased 4 gallons of this season's batch of his wildflower honey (I wiped out his entire stock). I was thinking that I would make 2 batches: one a la natural - with only raisins, black tea, and lemon zests...and one with prepared and packaged additives/adjuncts.
I'd like to get in on this and split it into three batches...the 3rd being (gulp) boiled.
I don't have the most refined palate, but I know folks who do - who would be happy to particitpate in blind taste tests! (In a year or two...)

-Sunny

AToE
08-13-2009, 09:31 PM
I was actually planning on doing this as one of my initial test batches when I started out last month. I'd definitely be interested in doing this, but I have some yeast tests planned for soon that I'd want to get out of the way first.

Medsen Fey
08-13-2009, 09:43 PM
I don't have the most refined palate, but I know folks who do -

I'm with you on this.

Fortunately, a refined palate is definitely not required. We just need to capture the data like Erroll did. Anyone of us can tell which one we prefer overall even if we don't have the ability to break down all the description. Same with the aroma; it's pretty easy to say I like this one or that one better. Body and flavor likewise. Even someone who had never critically evaluated a beverage in their life can weigh in on this, and the broader the range of people tasting, the more generalizable will be the results.

wildoates
08-13-2009, 10:12 PM
I'd do it, if Wayne does have some Western Buckwheat going out this fall!

Kee
08-13-2009, 10:35 PM
I'm interested. I'll have to bottle a few things first. It will be a couple of months before I can get started. It's probably for the best. It will also be easier for me to control the fermentation temp in the winter.

What might also be interesting is boiling times/temps. We might find a difference not only between not boiling and boiling 15 minutes but between boiling 15 minutes vs. boiling 90 minutes.

akueck
08-13-2009, 11:08 PM
Would you be looking for strong honeys in particular, or any honey? I suppose getting info from Costco clover would be helpful as well.

Very, very tempting....

Medsen Fey
08-14-2009, 08:40 AM
Actually any honey you have will add to our fund of knowledge (which at this point consists of 2 batches of dry heather mead).

Personally, I plan to try it with Orange Blossom since I have that readily available (and relatively cheap). I may also try a batch with mint honey as I have some sitting here and don't have any plans for it. Mangrove (which I've found some medicinal character in) might be something to try. Pretty much anything you use will provide some information that we don't have currently.

As for the boil time, I don't have a specific recommendation. Erroll used 10 minutes. I might do it for whatever period of time it takes to skim off all the scum from the surface. If anyone wants to do extended boils, I'll be interested to see the results.

Vino
08-14-2009, 11:31 AM
I have a few gallons of Saw Palmetto that I was planning to make into an off-dry traditional. No reason I can't make two 3 gallon batches.

Gardenfish
08-15-2009, 08:15 PM
I will start my batches tomorrow. I am planning on mixing 18# raspberry honey with 5 gal water. Should be around 1.097. I will then split to 2 - 3+ gal batches. One of which I will boil until no more foam or scum is present. I will cool until both batches are equal temp and then pitch rehydrated K1-V1116 yeast in each. I will use Hightests Nutrient schedule and ferment at 65 degrees in freezer. I have 4 packets of yeast. Do you think 5 or 10 grams for each 3 gals?

Gardenfish

Medsen Fey
08-15-2009, 09:29 PM
5 should be plenty.

akueck
08-15-2009, 11:43 PM
Don't forget to readjust the SG of the boiled batch. You will lose water during the boil, which will raise the SG. Depending on how long/vigorous the boil is, you may need to add quite a bit of water to get back to the original volume.

wildoates
08-16-2009, 12:09 AM
Note to self: buy a brewpot.

(since it doesn't look like I'm getting the tamale pot back)

Medsen Fey
08-16-2009, 01:39 PM
Don't forget to readjust the SG of the boiled batch. You will lose water during the boil, which will raise the SG. Depending on how long/vigorous the boil is, you may need to add quite a bit of water to get back to the original volume.

To make it simple, I just made a batch and boiled it, and then measured the gravity. Then I made an non-boiled batch to that gravity level. It is a bit of a challenge to get the gravity exactly matching - using a refractometer was not easy and I used a fine scale hydrometer to get it to the precise point. I just hope the yeast ferment to the same final gravity in both batches.

By the way, what shall be call this little adventure?

The Boiling Mad Mead Test?

AToE
08-16-2009, 01:44 PM
I was thinking, to make sure the yeast ferment the exact same amount, why not start with an SG they can easily take dry? That way there is no worries about different ABV or RS - seems like the simplest way to do it to me.

Medsen Fey
08-16-2009, 01:53 PM
For a dry batch, that's how I'm going to do it, but even so, some batches can finish at slightly different gravities.

Gardenfish
08-16-2009, 02:01 PM
Just made 7 gals at 1.104 split into two 3.5 gal batches and boiled one. lost 1 qt in boil and added water back to 3.5 gals. the sg on the boiled is 1.109. they are both exactly 3.5 gals and from 1 original mix. For the benefit of the difference between boiling and not boiling experiment i think I should leave the volumes equal and not change the og's. If I was going to boil a batch the new og is what i would get anyway. Does this seem right?
I am still equaling the temps and have not pitched yet so I can change things if you think necassary.

Gardenfish

Medsen Fey
08-16-2009, 02:10 PM
I think starting at the same gravity is important. In Erroll's experiment the differences lead to a significant difference in ABV and that could potentially skew the results. That's why I'm taking the approach I mentioned.

Gardenfish
08-16-2009, 02:26 PM
But if i put 10# of honey in 3 gal of water and then another 10# honey in another 3gals of water and boiled it and added water back to the the original volume that was lost in the boil so they were both equal in volume again, woulnt that give me a truer result in boiling vs no boiling? If I add more water to equal the og's am I not now comparing two different batches? I think that if the og changes in the boiling then that would be part of the difference in taste.

Gardenfish

Kee
08-16-2009, 02:32 PM
But if i put 10# of honey in 3 gal of water and then another 10# honey in another 3gals of water and boiled it and added water back to the the original volume that was lost in the boil so they were both equal in volume again, woulnt that give me a truer result in boiling vs no boiling? If I add more water to equal the og's am I not now comparing two different batches? I think that if the og changes in the boiling then that would be part of the difference in taste.


The purpose is to determine if boiling changes the flavor. We want to make sure EVERYTHING is the same so the only independent variable is the heat. If the OG is not the same, that will influence the results. We won't know if the heating or the different OG had more of an impact on the results. That was the issue with the first experiment. The OGs were diferent.

Gardenfish
08-16-2009, 03:05 PM
OK I added a qt more and both OG's are 1.104. I see how this will help tell to see if theres a taste difference. I also think if someone is just following a recipe that there will be an even different outcome if the OG's change and the recipe is made by Volume. I think maybe another test done this way and compare all 4 batches. It has my curiosity so when I rack these 2 batches I will start another and measure the OG for the 7 gals and boil half and just bring back to original volume.

Gardenfish

Gardenfish
08-16-2009, 03:12 PM
Both batches are at 85º. OK to pitch now and put into 65º chest or cool it more first?

Gardenfish

akueck
08-16-2009, 05:16 PM
Better to cool first. You want to accentuate differences in the must, and warm yeast will throw more "stuff" that will cloud that. Ideally you'd pitch at like 60 and let it warm up to 65 on its own to minimize the yeast contribution.

Sasper
08-17-2009, 02:05 AM
Medsen what kind of honey did you use?

Medsen Fey
08-17-2009, 10:42 AM
I decided to use some mint honey I had in the cupboard. I started a Brewlog (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?p=127830#post127830)for it. So it's off an running!

Who else is going to try this other the Gardenfish and me? If there are enough folks, perhaps we can get Pete to create a separate group brewlog area somewhat like the one that the Limeys have. :)

wayneb
08-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Medsen, no time to help at present, but I have a lead on some California Buckwheat honey that I'd like to try this with when I have more time for brewing - which is not likely until I get some of this backlog bottled. I need some more carboys! :rolleyes:

Kee
08-17-2009, 12:22 PM
I'd like to, but there's no way I can get to this before about January. There's just too much to do before then.

akueck
08-17-2009, 02:08 PM
I would really like to. Let's see when I can finish off the millet tests and then I'll start the gears turning.

wildoates
08-17-2009, 07:58 PM
I'd like to do it too, but I don't want to use Wayne's Raspberry Blossom and that's the only honey I have at the moment.

Plus I need to get a kettle since it doesn't look like I'll ever get mine back. :)

Gardenfish
08-17-2009, 08:11 PM
Thats the Raspberry honey I used.

Gardenfish

Medsen Fey
09-09-2009, 12:00 PM
I ran across this little tidbit in MLD #573.

Subject: Sherry flavors and heating fruit
From: "Mark E. Smith" < msmith@goldrush.com (msmith@goldrush.com)This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:29:28 -0700

I just got done with my first 15 gallon batch of Elderberry-plum Mead and
have taken a look at the latest digest. I see that there is a question
about sherry qualities in mead after aging for a long time. I must say
that I have tried an experiment before where i have taken two meads of the
same recipe and same yeast and with one I diluted the honey in two gallons
of heated water and did my recipe and the other I boiled out the honey for
an hour and did the same. At this point I have tasted the two ((both are
about two years old) and the one that was diluted had a musky taste to it
at first and is exibiting a bit of a sherry taste, the other has a more
chardonnay qualitiy. Now this is not scientific or anything but I think
that it might have to do with the risidual wax and sediment left from the
honey, it might create a barrier in the liquad itself as to help oxidation
and a sherry taste. I have since always boiled my honey out.


Apparently, along with Erroll that's now two votes for boiled meads. It sounds like the non-boiled batch was oxidized, and certainly that could have occurred for many reasons. It would be nice to know how they were stored and handled. I figure we might as well compile as much of the data as possible.

Medsen Fey
09-09-2009, 01:11 PM
MLD 373 had the following info posted.


Subject: Meadery recap
From: lkbonham@beerlaw.win.net (lkbonham@beerlaw.win.net)This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it (Louis K. Bonham)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 22:09:06
...Complete information can be found in *Inside Mead*, a nice little
publication that's well worth the $15 to become an AMA member.
The AMA can be reached at 1-800-693-MEAD.
BTW, the latest issue also had a thought-provoking article
writing up the results of a test on an alternative method of mead
production; namely, ultrafiltration of the mead must. This
technique (involving a polysulfone hollow fiber ultra-filtration
membrane with a molecular cutoff at 50K and about 20 psi pressure)
was done in lieu of heating or boiling. A batch was split three
ways, with one must boiled, one flash-heated, and one
ultrafiltered. Each was then pitched with the same yeast starter
and allowed to ferment side-by-side. Acidity and pH were virtually
identical, but the ultrafiltered mead fermented cleaner and fell
clear faster than the other two. When tasted after one year, in
blind comparisons, the ultrafiltered mead was given a "good" rating
by 90% of the judges, as opposed to 10% for the boiled mead and
50% for the flash-heated mead. More interestingly, the
ultrafiltered mead retained more of the honey volatiles and
matured in a matter of months. (One author of the article, Robert
Kime [of Cornell U.] took best Melomel at the 1994 Mazer Cup
Competition with a mead prepared with this technique, so it
doesn't appear to be just hype.)
Anybody had any experence with this technique?


Does anyone have a copy of this particular "Inside Mead" article (or a link) that showed the results of the ultrafiltration versus boiling test? The information may be quite relevant to what we are looking at here even though it did not apparently inlcude a "do nothing" control batch.

skunkboy
09-09-2009, 01:49 PM
AMA = American Mead Association?

akueck
09-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I ran across this little tidbit in MLD #573.


Apparently, along with Erroll that's now two votes for boiled meads. It sounds like the non-boiled batch was oxidized, and certainly that could have occurred for many reasons. It would be nice to know how they were stored and handled. I figure we might as well compile as much of the data as possible.

I don't get it. "Residual wax" in the honey caused oxidation by forming a barrier? Huh? I don't dispute this person's experience with his boil/no boil test but I really doubt his rationale. Also, what does "did my recipe" mean? (devil's in the details after all) Did he boil the honey diluted in water or just boiled the honey?

I've heard of the ultrafiltration thing before, I think elsewhere on this site somewhere. Interesting idea; sounds like the flavor and aroma compounds are small enough to pass through the filter but it pulls out things that contribute to haze, etc. One more thing to sanitize though. ;)

And Medsen, when are you starting your test? :P

Medsen Fey
09-09-2009, 03:09 PM
Aaron, I wasn't suggesting that his explanation makes any sense. It was just the only case I have found so far where someone did side by side comparison (sort of).

My brewlog (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128875#post128875) is already in progress - just needs some updating. Once I get this mint stuff clear and bottled, I'm planning to try with a semi-sweet to sweet Orange Blossom batch.

Any idea who might have a copy of that article from the old American Mead Association?

akueck
09-09-2009, 03:25 PM
My brewlog (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128875#post128875) is already in progress - just needs some updating. Once I get this mint stuff clear and bottled, I'm planning to try with a semi-sweet to sweet Orange Blossom batch.

Oops, I forgot about the "boiling" part of the mad mint meads! What means boil and starts with m? Alliteration is much easier to remember.

Medsen Fey
09-09-2009, 08:56 PM
What means boil and starts with m? Alliteration is much easier to remember.

How about mulled?

Medsen Fey
10-09-2009, 11:12 AM
In doing some research on my sulfur problems with L2226 I did run across and interesting factoid that might be relevant for this experiment. In wine musts, pasteurization may actually increase H2S production. Apparently the mechanism for this come from nitrogen starved yeast's ability to secrete extracellular proteolytic enzymes. These enzymes break down proteins in the must leading to more H2S. Pasteurization denature the protein making them easier to degrade.

This was proposed in Am. J. Enol. Vitic. 30:3:187-197 (1979)


The Origin and Control of Hydrogen Sulfide during Fermentation of Grape Must
P. J. A. Vos and R. S. Gray

Oude Meester Group, Limited, R.I.T. Centre, P.O. Box 456, Stellenbosch, 7600, Republic of South Africa.

Grapes of five white cultivars were crushed to provide a total of 104 samples of five cultivars. After centrifugation, several chemical analyses were performed on musts including an assessment of hydrogen sulfide (H2S) development during fermentation. Statistical evaluation established significant correlations (0.001 level) of: free amino nitrogen (FAN) with H2S and soluble solids; protein nitrogen with titratable acidity, turbidity, total nitrogen, and nonprotein nitrogen; ammonia nitrogen with soluble solids, titratable acidity, and pH; nonprotein nitrogen with turbidity and total nitrogen; and, finally, pH with titratable acidity. Considered the most important of these correlations was that between FAN and H2S. Subsequent fermentations, using nonfoaming yeast and protease, were each characterized by several distinct consequences including the stimulation of H2S. These experiments demonstrated that actively fermenting yeasts are capable of extracellular proteolytic activity and that the degradation of must proteins is implicated in the formation of H2S.
Clarification of settled musts by centrifugation had a small but marked effect. Bentonite treatment and removal of the bentonite-protein sediment before fermentation substantially decreased the development of H2S but adversely affected fermentation activity. By contrast, fermentations conducted in contact with bentonite stimulated both H2S development and fermentation rates, as did the pasteurization of must. Enhancement of the assimilable nitrogen content of musts resulted in the most effective control of H2S. Fermentation rates were accelerated, and, in some instances, suppression of H2S was complete.
It thus appears that the formation of H2S occurs indirectly as a result of the nitrogen demand of yeasts and not because of their sulfur requirements as such.


I'm not certain that their explanation is entirely accurate, but the fact remains that pasteurizing (or boiling) may increase H2S production. This mechanism may be turned off if the yeast are well fed and have enough nitrogen to keep them happy so that they are not producing proteases. That may be why we don't see it so often because we usually feed them pretty well.

Still since we are boiling these batches, it will be helpful if folks pay attention to sulfur odors and whether or not they show up more in the boiled batches.

Oskaar
10-09-2009, 03:13 PM
Looks like a nice qualitative approach.

To really nail down your taste preferences I'd throw in a ringer in your triangular tasting. That way you'll have boiled, no-heat and a third bottle basically an A-B-C lineup that you can set into a triangular fashion.

Some simple flight examples:

Flight 1: A-A-B, B-A-B, A-B-A

Flight 2: C-A-A; C-A-C; A-A-C

Flight 3: B-C-B; C-C-B; C-B-B

You would do three flights of two meads and your job is to pick the one that is different from the other two in each set within the flight.

Once that is done you can do a head to head of the three meads A, B and C using a neutral grading sheet similar to what I outlined here (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showpost.php?p=115419&postcount=9).

slowbie
01-09-2010, 10:03 AM
This looks very interesting. I'm mostly replying so I can auto-subscribe and hear results, but depending on the results you guys get, I'd like to try this on my own sometime down the road to taste the difference for myself. Unfortunately, that probably won't be for another nine months at least since I'm potentially moving halfway across the country.

monsterbronc
01-10-2010, 08:48 PM
truthfully, Im not concerned with FG, if it comes out different oh well, I actually expect that, Im more concerned with
a: what am I loosing/gaining by boiling?
b: overall end product, taste, aroma, mouthfeel. what way ends with a better drink in the end.

I have been told one of the major concerns is to kill the wild yeasts in the honey already.
?! why? yeast is yeast, makes alcohol, I am under the impression that when it comes to microorganizms they survive by exess in numbers, so whatever you pich wout quickly overpower any wild yeasts. I've also read that wild yeasts arent as tolerant to alcohol levels, so they die off on their own as the commercial yeast happily lives on.

that and ive been warned about bee parts and wax, but they seem to float to the top when I dissolve the honey in warm water anyway. just scoop it off as if your boiling, and you get the same effect.

Im about to do a second bach of blackberry ginger melomel, its awesome, this go round though im useing more honey, and no boil. we will see how different it is in comparison, but wont be scientific.

But, I do want to do a small batch of green chile mead. I could do a gallon boiled, and a gallon not. match the OG, pitch exact yeasts at exact temps, keep side by side, basically the only difference will be that in one, the whole must was boiled, and the other I will only boil the chilles, to steep, and keep other microbes from the chilles from altering the results.

might be a few weeks though, Im kinda busy, and its freezing in my house. the ice age has set in here in the midwest, and so far its making my ales take way longer to do their thing. and I need an empty carboy or two before I can start.

akueck
01-11-2010, 01:15 AM
truthfully, Im not concerned with FG, if it comes out different oh well, I actually expect that, Im more concerned with
a: what am I loosing/gaining by boiling?
b: overall end product, taste, aroma, mouthfeel. what way ends with a better drink in the end.


The FG can affect those things (taste, aroma, mouthfeel) so ideally you'd have both batches come in close to the same. A few gravity points one way or the other should be indistinguishable, but you'd probably notice the difference between a 1.005 and 1.015 FG mead. Assuming you start both at the same OG, use the same yeast, and treat them the same (nutrients, aeration, temperature, etc), then you should expect reasonably close FGs.

You can find the nitty gritty details elsewhere (Dan McFeely has certainly written a fair amount about it), but the wild yeasts in honey are not much concern for meadmaking.

Definitely try a no-boil batch to compare to your previous ones. No need to be "scientific", after all we're just looking for your impressions as to the differences. You'll have to forgive the rest of us for geeking out a little. ;)

slowbie
01-11-2010, 09:36 AM
You can find the nitty gritty details elsewhere (Dan McFeely has certainly written a fair amount about it), but the wild yeasts in honey are not much concern for meadmaking.


Slightly off topic, but is there anything mead related that Dan McFeely hasn't written a fair amount about? It seems like every time I can't find a complete answer to one of my questions on these forums, a quick google search will find me a few pages of Dan's writings on some other site. It's incredible.

If you're reading this Dan, thanks a lot for answering more of my questions than you know.

monsterbronc
01-11-2010, 11:13 PM
You'll have to forgive the rest of us for geeking out a little. ;)

Forgive you? I thought Mead was synonymous with D&D and Star Trek. ;D

akueck
01-12-2010, 03:37 AM
I saw a Star Trek episode once. Don't remember there being mead, but mostly I was confused the whole time....there was a hologram doctor? Huh?

Smarrikåka
01-12-2010, 03:56 AM
I never saw mead in any science fiction, but I think it'd good to see it there. Would make it seem more like a future-kind-of-thing.

monsterbronc
01-12-2010, 01:12 PM
oops, thats not quite what I meant,

what I meant was, that (with my friends anyway) people that make, and/or enjoy mead, also tend to enjoy Roll playing games, computers/computer games, sci-fi, and/or fantasy. and they are all red flags indicating our geekish-ness. though not necicarily a hard fast rule, and you don't have to be into all the categories to fall into geekdom.

I admit, at midnight, I was there for the first showing of "Return of the King" (no I didn't dress up though, But I have made my own Chainmail shirt since then)

icedmetal
05-24-2010, 12:18 PM
I think my wife and I may be in position to add more data to this thread soon. We've got 40lbs of Orange Blossom honey coming, and I think we may need to boil one batch and not the other since the recipe calls for a boil and we'd like to remake it into a no-boil. Doing a side-by-side will be awesome anyway since the boiled version was fantastic last time. Personally I'm expecting the unboiled will be better, but hey, here's to finding out for sure in the name of science!

-SIRES

Medsen Fey
05-24-2010, 12:42 PM
We've got 40lbs of Orange Blossom honey coming, and I think we may need to boil one batch and not the other..
Doing a side-by-side will be awesome...
...here's to finding out for sure in the name of science!


Who knew science could be so much fun?? (Not my teachers)

Yes, please do put up a brewlog because we need more data points. I plan to do an orange blossom comparison whenever I get my gallon jugs free.

akueck
05-24-2010, 06:06 PM
I need to have a tasting of my two batches. NorCal folks have a good weekend to visit Oakland?

wayneb
05-24-2010, 06:32 PM
If you're willing to bottle up a small amount of each and ship them my way, I can do a blind A-B for you.

akueck
05-24-2010, 10:00 PM
Mine are already in 12 oz bottles. I'll see if I can scrounge up some bubble wrap at work.

Chevette Girl
05-24-2010, 11:31 PM
Ok, that clinches it, definitely the next experiment I start will be boiled vs. not boiled, to compare and contrast and report in...

Wolfie
05-26-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm definitely interested. you're thoughts that it could change the flavor of eastern buckwheat is too interesting to pass up. I'll give it a go with 58w3 aimed at semi dry (1.008-1.005).

Haven't read the whole thread yet....I'll check back here to see if there are brewdates close to deciding.

Medsen Fey
04-22-2011, 12:08 PM
I posted up the results from the Mazer cup on my Boiling Mad Mead Test (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?p=165521#post165521) with the mint honey. At the 20 month mark, the boiled batch seems to be better. So here is one more example where boiling may be of benefit.

AToE
04-23-2011, 10:58 PM
I'm planning on doing a side by side test of this with buckwheat honey, which s one that I enjoy the taste of but wouldn't mind removing some aroma. We'll see what happens.

ken_schramm
04-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Hmm again. If the idea of the test is to see whether boiling or not makes a mead with a honey that many object to less objectionable, then Mint and Buckwheat are good honeys to use. Perhaps driving off or denaturing some of those constituent compounds would be preferred. In some ways, this looks like evaluating a winemaking practice to see if it makes better wines out of Vitis labrusca grapes.

If the idea is to see whether boiling or not boiling preserves the enjoyable attributes of a truly spectacular meadmaking honey, then we might want to be testing with other honey varieties.

Ken

Medsen Fey
04-24-2011, 11:27 AM
If the idea is to see whether boiling or not boiling preserves the enjoyable attributes of a truly spectacular meadmaking honey, then we might want to be testing with other honey varieties.


I think the first question was, "Is there any place for boiling a mead must (other than a Bochet) for any honey?" I'm not sure the jury is back yet, but if the answer is yes, then the question will be "which ones benefit?" I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

mccann51
04-24-2011, 12:07 PM
I'm planning on doing a side by side test of this with buckwheat honey, which s one that I enjoy the taste of but wouldn't mind removing some aroma. We'll see what happens.

AToE, great idea. I enjoy the honey-ness of buckwheat mead a lot, but the aroma can be so overpowering. If I have some spare time and money (both, highly unlikely, ha) I'm gonna give this a go as well.

Actually, thinking about it, I recently brewed a half orange-blossom, half buckwheat w DV10. It's very young, but I can taste the potential. I was gonna knock back the buckwheat addition next time I brew it (to perhaps 1/3 or 1/4), but instead I think I'll boil the buckwheat but leave the ratios of honey the same. This will - hopefully - leave the aroma all to the orange-blossom (which I'm sure I'm not alone in enjoying) but give some depth to the flavor... crap, now I really want to try this.


I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

Goddamn it, just when I thought we had figured it all out! Haha!

Chevette Girl
04-24-2011, 02:08 PM
I think the first question was, "Is there any place for boiling a mead must (other than a Bochet) for any honey?" I'm not sure the jury is back yet, but if the answer is yes, then the question will be "which ones benefit?" I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

You know, you've convinced me... once my clover honey boil/no boil show mead batches are bottled (gimme another year or two, they're clear but I'm not sure if they're actually done, they still fizz when I agitate them), I'll make sure I send a couple of bottles down to the Cup. For science. :)

wildoates
04-26-2011, 12:41 AM
For science!

/clink!

AToE
04-26-2011, 01:01 AM
I agree with Ken about the fact that I do believe this should be done with some grade A honey that we know is going to turn out a high quality mead un-heated for sure.

That said, I'm going to be using good quality buckwheat honey for my first test, mainly because it's a honey I'm interested in using to fill out the flavour and colour of meads when blended in, and I'm curious to see whether boiling it will make the aroma more attractive for my own personal plans for the stuff.

I do think I'll take a second whack at this though afterwards using honey I've acheived good mead with un-heated before.

TheAlchemist
04-27-2011, 11:19 PM
For science!

/clink!

God bless Science!

Chevette Girl
04-27-2011, 11:25 PM
God bless Science!

<sigh> and a lot less expensive than joining another group brew... Free Trade Agreement, my behind...