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commonsenseman
05-11-2011, 05:12 PM
I am wondering if it is possible to make a pipe tobacco flavored mead. I have a large stash of pipe tobacco & i've been thinking for a while of making one out of it. I'm not sure if the natural oils in the leaf will pose a problem or not, perhaps if I add it to secondary it'll be ok? Here's what I was thinking:

3 lbs of the darkest, strongest honey I can find.
50g 1792 Flake (http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend_detail.cfm?ALPHA=1&TID=1004) tobacco, either in primary of secondary. This is strong stuff, so it would probably dominate.
Nutrient & Energizer, SNA.
D-47 (it's what I have on-hand).
Water to 1-gallon.

Thoughts?

Is there anything else I could add to help balance the flavor?

AToE
05-11-2011, 05:19 PM
If the oils did end up causing a problem and coming out into the mead I'd guess you've have to just carefully rack from underneith it - which would be easier if it was added in primary and you made about 1.1 gallons, so that the losses wouldn't leave you with headroom.

Also, I would ferment the amount of honey you have planned there, but after 6-10 months you may need to backsweeten a bit, depending on how the tobacco interacts with the taste of the mead.

I've considered using very small amounts of high quality tobacco to add complexity to some meads, so even though you're planning on using more, if it's too much it will at least teach you about what tobacco brings to the table, and you can always blend it with a tobacco-less mead to taste down the road.

commonsenseman
05-11-2011, 05:54 PM
If the oils did end up causing a problem and coming out into the mead I'd guess you've have to just carefully rack from underneith it - which would be easier if it was added in primary and you made about 1.1 gallons, so that the losses wouldn't leave you with headroom.

Also, I would ferment the amount of honey you have planned there, but after 6-10 months you may need to backsweeten a bit, depending on how the tobacco interacts with the taste of the mead.

I've considered using very small amounts of high quality tobacco to add complexity to some meads, so even though you're planning on using more, if it's too much it will at least teach you about what tobacco brings to the table, and you can always blend it with a tobacco-less mead to taste down the road.

So, worst case scenario, there'd be a layer of oil on top of the mead?

I suppose I may be overdoing the amount of tobacco. This stuff is quite full-flavored, so perhaps I could tone it down a little. I want it to taste like there's tobacco in there, but I don't want it to be like drinking a glass of Grizzly.

As you said, I could always blend it if it becomes bitter & terrible tasting.

AToE
05-11-2011, 06:16 PM
On the flip side, easier than blending is adding the tobacco in smaller amounts, some during primary, then wait 4-6 months, give it a taste and sniff, see if you want more, add more, etc. Treat it like any other spice or oak basically.

Medsen Fey
05-11-2011, 06:40 PM
The perfect mead for competition*!
Hold it between the cheek and gum.
Swirl it around the mouth.
Then Spit! ;D


*Best consumed while wearing a John Deere baseball cap. ;)

commonsenseman
05-11-2011, 06:40 PM
Hmm, I do have a traditional that's just nine days into primary.....

commonsenseman
05-11-2011, 06:45 PM
The perfect mead for competition*!
Hold it between the cheek and gum.
Swirl it around the mouth.
Then Spit! ;D


*Best consumed while wearing a John Deere baseball cap. ;)

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Redneck metheglin?

Chevette Girl
05-11-2011, 10:48 PM
I love the smell of tobacco... that is, until you set it on fire...

Just a caution, guys, there's a reason you spit out the tobacco juice rather than swallowing it!

"Sixty milligrams of nicotine (the amount in about 30-40 cigarettes [1]), has the potential to kill an adult who is not a smoker[2] if all of the nicotine were absorbed" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning), I don't know what the transfer rate would be in mead or how much nicotine is in 50g of pipe tobacco, or whether there's anything else toxic in tobacco... but be careful with this one, do your research before you get started!

commonsenseman
05-11-2011, 11:04 PM
I love the smell of tobacco... that is, until you set it on fire...

Just a caution, guys, there's a reason you spit out the tobacco juice rather than swallowing it!

"Sixty milligrams of nicotine (the amount in about 30-40 cigarettes [1]), has the potential to kill an adult who is not a smoker[2] if all of the nicotine were absorbed" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning), I don't know what the transfer rate would be in mead or how much nicotine is in 50g of pipe tobacco, or whether there's anything else toxic in tobacco... but be careful with this one, do your research before you get started!

That is a valid point! I don't need to get a "nicotine high" off a glass of mead.

Here's how I figure it'll breakdown:

1 bowl of pipe tobacco is roughly equal to 2-5 cigarettes in Nicotine content, depending on a few factors (smoking time, inhaling, tobacco variety, etc).

1 cigarette has approximately 9mg of Nicotine

So one bowls worth of tobacco is somewhere between 18-45mg of nicotine.

I do not inhale pipe smoke & I'm not sure how much Nicotine would be transferred to the must, but I can't imagine it's all of it.

50g of pipe tobacco is roughly 15 bowls worth, or 270-675mg of nicotine. Assuming all of that made it's way into the must, we'd be looking at around 27-67.5mg of Nicotine per 12oz serving.

So if it extracts all of it, we could be looking at unsafe amounts of Nicotine, if not, well who knows.

I will probably add it to taste & the more I think about it, I doubt I'll end up adding all 50g. I betcha it'd be way to overpowering.

Slownewone
05-11-2011, 11:46 PM
Hmmm...muy interesante, the shamans of the Asháninka, a Peruvian indigenous culture, induce trance through ingesting massive amounts of tobacco...and ayahuasca :happy8:.

Loadnabox
05-12-2011, 08:46 AM
The taste of tobacco is going to be extremely different than the smell burned or unburned. Try putting some of the pipe tobacco into your mouth like chew. Alternately make a tea out of it and try drinking a bit. This will give you an idea of what it will add to your mead.

I'm personally betting it won't be good and this is from a former smoker.

Arden
05-12-2011, 08:57 AM
Is nicotine water soluble, alcohol soluble...? That would affect how much is taken up by the mead.

IanB
05-12-2011, 10:17 AM
I think you might want to consider using the tobacco in a differant way. What about smoking some fruit or the zest of fruit to make some kind of smoke mead? Almost like the beer guys do when they used smoking peat to impart flavor/roasting of the grain or hops when they put it in and make a smoked porter?

I think tobacco straight in the mead might be a little off in flavor??

TheAlchemist
05-12-2011, 11:26 AM
Hmmm...muy interesante, the shamans of the Asháninka, a Peruvian indigenous culture, induce trance through ingesting massive amounts of tobacco...and ayahuasca :happy8:.

Are you considering making an ayahuasca mead?

TheAlchemist
05-12-2011, 11:28 AM
I think you might want to consider using the tobacco in a differant way. What about smoking some fruit or the zest of fruit to make some kind of smoke mead? Almost like the beer guys do when they used smoking peat to impart flavor/roasting of the grain or hops when they put it in and make a smoked porter?

I think tobacco straight in the mead might be a little off in flavor??

I'm with you, Ian.

commonsenseman
05-12-2011, 04:18 PM
You all have very interesting points, I suppose I do not know exactly what it will be like unsmoked. I've been considering adding a little something extra to give it that "old guy" pipe smell, maybe some vanilla in addition to the tobacco.

Unfortunately, I already added a little bit of tobacco last night, so it's too late for that. I have no way of weighing it, but it's somewhere around 2-3 grams worth. :eek:

AToE
05-12-2011, 04:36 PM
I think raw tobacco is a perfectly fine addition, I've seen it used in cooking (never tried it) and while I've never chewed on the stuff, the aroma of raw tobacco (the good stuff) is one of the best on the planet in my opinion.

commonsenseman
05-13-2011, 12:30 PM
I think raw tobacco is a perfectly fine addition, I've seen it used in cooking (never tried it) and while I've never chewed on the stuff, the aroma of raw tobacco (the good stuff) is one of the best on the planet in my opinion.

Agreed!

I added a second type of tobacco that's a little sweeter & milder (but still very high quality) to help balance it. I'm still seriously considering adding a little vanilla as well, I'm expecting it to come out fairly bitter.

Oh, & I've decided that "Redneck Metheglin" is the perfect name for this experiment. Plus if if it turns out halfways decent, it'll be funny to enter that into a competition.

TheAlchemist
05-13-2011, 12:34 PM
Oh, & I've decided that "Redneck Metheglin" is the perfect name for this experiment. Plus if if it turns out halfways decent, it'll be funny to enter that into a competition.

Great Name.
For me, the name is about as important as the recipe.
You could add the subtitle "a pinch between the cheek and gum"

AToE
05-13-2011, 12:39 PM
I'd hold off on vanilla until at least 5 or 6 months in, because you'll really want to learn what the tobacco brought to the table, and you won't be able to taste/smell that properly until the mead has at least partially cleared and aged. For all you know, you might wind up with a strong vanilla note in there just from the tobacco (or not, just a possibility. Oak contributes subtle vanilla, so it's not impossble other plants might too. You won't know until you wait!).

commonsenseman
05-13-2011, 01:21 PM
Great Name.
For me, the name is about as important as the recipe.
You could add the subtitle "a pinch between the cheek and gum"

Hehehe, that WOULD be pretty funny!


I'd hold off on vanilla until at least 5 or 6 months in, because you'll really want to learn what the tobacco brought to the table, and you won't be able to taste/smell that properly until the mead has at least partially cleared and aged. For all you know, you might wind up with a strong vanilla note in there just from the tobacco (or not, just a possibility. Oak contributes subtle vanilla, so it's not impossble other plants might too. You won't know until you wait!).

Good point. I suppose if I find that it needs balance after 6 months, I could always try oaking it as well.

Medsen Fey
05-13-2011, 02:30 PM
You may find the tannins from the tobacco will be enough that you won't need oak. It is interesting that oak will sometimes add some tobacco aroma (medium toast French does for me), so it'll be interesting to see what tobacco adds.

Brad Dahlhofer
05-22-2011, 01:36 AM
Oh yea! Tomacco mead.

Oskaar
05-22-2011, 01:40 AM
Oh yea! Tomacco mead.

Ooooh, this tomato tastes like ashtray. I want more! D'OH!

commonsenseman
05-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Tobacco marinara?

commonsenseman
06-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Tasted it a few days ago & it's pretty rough, as expected I suppose. It had that tobacco bite to it. I will rack/age it for a few(+) months & see what happens.

Ayinson
06-06-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm actually very curious as to how this one is going to turn out, I smoke myself and I love the smell of tobacco... So keep us updated!

commonsenseman
10-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Tried it recently, just shy of six months old. Still a little harsh, kinda burns on the way down (not an alcohol burn). I'm contemplating some options to help smooth out the harshness besides more aging, which it will get regardless. Here's what comes to mind:

-Vanilla beans
-Cherry Perhaps? (that's what some "old-timer" tobaccos smell like)
-Stabilize, then backsweeten with more wildflower honey
-Anise (also used in some "old-timer" tobaccos)

Any other ideas?

Chevette Girl
10-24-2011, 11:21 AM
Well, if you want to know what it'll be like if you backsweeten, that's easy enough to try with a small sample... maybe a hint of vanilla extract might give you an idea if it would help... the rest, I couldn't tell you without tasting the stuff :)

YogiBearMead726
10-24-2011, 11:47 AM
I know it's a bit late, but here is some helpful info on tobacco.

5g of tobacco contains ~15mg of nicotine. As CG pointed out, a lethal dose for humans is 60mg (same amount as hydrogen cyanide). In addition, nicotine is easily extracted in alcohol, though it can also leech out into water if given a long enough soak.

I'm not sure how much you ended up using, but I'd be careful drinking this stuff. Especially if you plan on sharing it. For a non-smoker, the effects could be very unpleasant.

As for ideas to help round the flavor out, I'd say cherries and age. Maybe some vanilla if you feel like it.

Just my $0.02

Dan McFeeley
10-24-2011, 03:49 PM
Another late response -- if this could be made to work, possibly introducing pipe smoke into the fermenting must, water pipe style, as a means of both introducing flavor and aerating the must during the early phases. ;D

--

Medsen Fey
10-24-2011, 07:11 PM
An egg-white fining is good for removing excess tannins, and I wonder if that would take some of the harshness out.

HumanBlockhead
10-27-2011, 07:25 PM
Just a caution, guys, there's a reason you spit out the tobacco juice rather than swallowing it!

"Sixty milligrams of nicotine (the amount in about 30-40 cigarettes [1]), has the potential to kill an adult who is not a smoker[2] if all of the nicotine were absorbed" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning), I don't know what the transfer rate would be in mead or how much nicotine is in 50g of pipe tobacco, or whether there's anything else toxic in tobacco... but be careful with this one, do your research before you get started!

Nicotine is a water soluble drug in its base form, with an LD 50 of 0.5-1.0 mg/kg (less than cocaine) ... not a pleasant drug to be adding to one's beverage, unless it was for uninvited guests. Even then, I don't know as this would be safe. Caveat emptor.

IMHO

AToE
10-27-2011, 11:52 PM
The same thing applies as does with smoking though - yes the whole pack/batch would kill you off immediately, but ingested in smaller doses (cigarette/glass) is different. I'd be careful with it and not drink large amounts - but this is not going to end up tasting like something someone would chug, not in my opinion anyways!

Soyala_Amaya
10-28-2011, 12:01 AM
http://www.southsmoke.com/pd-zero-herbal-molasses-100g.cfm?RID=36671&TID=1

Tobacco-less shisha? I wonder how this would taste fermented? Any smokey flavors?

calicojack
10-29-2011, 07:21 AM
not to be crass, but dude.... if you end up dying from this, you realize we're putting you up for a darwin award right?

commonsenseman
10-29-2011, 11:58 AM
not to be crass, but dude.... if you end up dying from this, you realize we're putting you up for a darwin award right?

If I die from ingesting .3 grams of tobacco, I'll put you in my will.

MikeaJones113
10-31-2011, 10:46 AM
Anthony Bourdain talks about having a Marlboro Creme Brulee at the French Laundry in Napa. The chefs knew he was coming, so they made it for him so he wouldn't need to leave the table for a smoke break. I guess from what he said they broke down a whole cigar and infused the creme with it. He really liked it, it worked, and he did not get poisoned.

The nicotine levels in pipe tobacco are much lower than cigarettes, and probably a lot lower than we think. This is a far cry from the single droop of pure nicotine that can kill an adult by being absorbed through the skin. That said, I am not sure how it would taste and interact with everything. I am curious about the long run flavors and how it works out.