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PamW
05-21-2011, 11:30 AM
When it was still carbonated my wife described it as a premium mimosa

Now without the carbonation it tastes kinda like a flat mimosa with a little bite of spice

Interesting idea - carbonating a JAOM. Has anyone ever tried this? Would a forced carbonation be better than attempting a 'natural' carbonation?

akueck
05-21-2011, 11:54 AM
JAO, to the recipe, will probably never "naturally" carbonate in the bottle, at least not safely. The bread yeast can't take this particular mead to dry, and trying to carbonate it with yeast is asking for some glass grenades. Force carbonating would be the way to go.

I'd think the carbonation would highlight the pithiness. Maybe it's sweet enough to cover that too? Honestly I've never had JAO. :o

TheAlchemist
05-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Honestly I've never had JAO. :o

Amazing!
I am not alone.

YogiBearMead726
05-21-2011, 03:37 PM
Amazing!
I am not alone.

Make that three.

As for carbonating this batch, force carb sounds like the only viable option.

Brad Dahlhofer
05-22-2011, 12:36 AM
Make that three.

As for carbonating this batch, force carb sounds like the only viable option.

Make that four.

I am not a big fan of natural carbonation with meads. Not that it CAN'T be done, but I am not satisfied with inconsistency, and would prefer a repeatable method that I don't think I'll get with bottle conditioning. That said, I haven't really put the effort into trying. ;)

Oskaar
05-22-2011, 01:08 AM
If it's sweet or to the high side of semi-sweet then force carbonating is the way to go.

Dry to the low side of semi-dry works just fine with natural carbonation (secondary ferment in the bottle as in methode champenoise) and the correct and timely application of tirage and dosage as part of the in bottle fermentation.

Cheers,

Oskaar

Loadnabox
05-22-2011, 08:44 AM
The reason that people say not to go with fermentation carbonation on a sweet wine, is that the yeast used to carbonate can take it the rest of the way dry which would result in bottle bombs. Things like beer or dry wines work because you add -just- enough sugar back to the mead to give the desired amount of carbonation. The yeast then takes that dry and dies before it can create a bottle bomb (thanks to running out of food).


In the JAO thread, a number of people including Joe, mention that the biggest improvement many people suggest to the recipe is carbonating it. I don't recall seeing that anyone has actually done it, but I tend to agree and would love to try it.

I also agree that the pithiness is more pronounced later in a JAO's life. Carbonation, from what I can tell in my early mead samples so far, tends to make this way more pronounced. Leaving out the clove, nutmeg, allspice and removing all orange pith would be essential to making sure the carbonation doesn't create something too tangy/bitter to drink.

I don't have a korny keg yet (debating if I have the room and can justify it for making some hard ciders similar to strongbow) but if I do get one, I'm thinking I'll probably carbonate some JAO first thing.

PamW
05-22-2011, 11:45 AM
Thank you all for the input. I had pretty much discounted natural carbonation for the reasons stated (but, I didn't want to think I might have missed something), and bottle bombs are just not something I really want to deal with. My hubby has a couple of corny kegs, both 5 gallon and 2.5 gallon, and I'm sure I could wheedle him into letting me make the attempt with at least a 2.5 gallon. My current 10 gallon batch of Joe's should give me enough to play with.

Other than my first batch (I'm on my 4th now), I've never had anyone comment on any pithyness in the taste. I don't juice the oranges first, but I do trim out the excess pith at the ends of the slices as well as any of the stuff that 'strings out' from the middle of the slices. I also cut them into slices small enough that I'm not having to smash them too terribly much to get them in the carboy. The only reason for the smaller slices is because I hated the juice going over the outside of the carboy as I smooshed them in and cleaning up the mess. I also add enough water to be able to dissolve the honey using a lees stirrer and a drill before I add the rest of the ingredients, and then give it a more gentle stirring after everything is in by hand with the lees stirrer. The other thing I do is make sure that I get the oranges as ripe as I can. I've used three different kinds of oranges so far; Navels, Valencias, and Cara Cara, and it was the Navels I used n my first batch and were the ones that gave off the pithyness. But, that was also my first batch, and I followed the directions exactly, including how small to cut the oranges. I didn't want to void the warranty. ;D

Loadnabox
05-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Thank you all for the input. I had pretty much discounted natural carbonation for the reasons stated (but, I didn't want to think I might have missed something), and bottle bombs are just not something I really want to deal with. My hubby has a couple of corny kegs, both 5 gallon and 2.5 gallon, and I'm sure I could wheedle him into letting me make the attempt with at least a 2.5 gallon. My current 10 gallon batch of Joe's should give me enough to play with.



Let us know how this turns out! I'll watch with interest!

PamW
05-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Thanks! I will keep up on posting about this one as its also the first time I've used the Cara Cara oranges. I think I voided the warranty though as I used golden raisins instead of the regular ones. It should clear either the end of this month or the beginning of next, so I should be able to get it under CO2 by at least June 8th or 9th. I lurk more than I post.

TheAlchemist
05-22-2011, 12:24 PM
Thanks! I will keep up on posting about this one as its also the first time I've used the Cara Cara oranges. I think I voided the warranty though as I used golden raisins instead of the regular ones. It should clear either the end of this month or the beginning of next, so I should be able to get it under CO2 by at least June 8th or 9th. I lurk more than I post.

Happy lurking...

AToE
05-22-2011, 01:43 PM
Now, I haven't had or made JAO, but I can't see carbonation not working well with it. Bubbles are my personal favourite thing to balance out sweetness, seems to just make everything wonderful. :)

kudapucat
05-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Now, I haven't had or made JAO, but I can't see carbonation not working well with it. Bubbles are my personal favourite thing to balance out sweetness, seems to just make everything wonderful. :)

Exceptiong that a JAO is pretty well balanced already. Perhaps a touch mor ehoney may be needed if carbonating? Unless a drier finish is desired.

AToE
05-23-2011, 03:40 AM
Always take anything I say about a sweet (or even semi-sweet) mead with a grain (or handfull) of salt. I'm not one for sweet drinks.

PamW
05-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Exceptiong that a JAO is pretty well balanced already. Perhaps a touch mor ehoney may be needed if carbonating? Unless a drier finish is desired.

Mine tend to come out rather sweet with the spices balancing that to an extent. Some people have said that its very sweet without being cloying (nice to have an international wine master as a friend to take a sip of your meads now and again for some educated input), which is why when someone mentioned having had mild carbonation in their JAO, I thought that carbonating might knock down the sweet a tad without destroying it entirely. What is nicely sweet to one person is overly sweet to another. I figured if I could cover a slightly wider audience with one part of the batch carbed and the rest not, I'd get to more parties and get more hugs ;)

Still waiting for the recent 10 gallon batch to clear. Sometimes patience isn't my strong suit.

I really appreciate the input here. Its been a big help for me.

Loadnabox
05-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Mine tend to come out rather sweet with the spices balancing that to an extent. Some people have said that its very sweet without being cloying (nice to have an international wine master as a friend to take a sip of your meads now and again for some educated input), which is why when someone mentioned having had mild carbonation in their JAO, I thought that carbonating might knock down the sweet a tad without destroying it entirely. What is nicely sweet to one person is overly sweet to another. I figured if I could cover a slightly wider audience with one part of the batch carbed and the rest not, I'd get to more parties and get more hugs ;)

Still waiting for the recent 10 gallon batch to clear. Sometimes patience isn't my strong suit.

I really appreciate the input here. Its been a big help for me.



I know the feeling of waiting sucks, even for a JAO.

My plan is to always have a 5 gallon carboy aging some JOA, when I run out of bottles bottle off the carboy and start a new batch. I don't know -that- many wine drinkers or attend parties -that- much, so I suspect if I do it this way all of my JAO's will get at least 6 months of aging. Well, my first 5 gallon batch might be an exception here, it's probably going to disappear at a campout in a couple of weeks :)

kudapucat
05-24-2011, 05:46 PM
I know the feeling of waiting sucks, even for a JAO.



Tell me about it. I stupidly filled every gallon jug with JAO (and a couple of trial brews) and my two 23litre carboys within 4 days... now I HAVE to wait, and there's NOTHING I can do to entertain myself!

I guess I could buy another 23litre carboy... hmmm ;D

Chevette Girl
05-24-2011, 06:13 PM
Tell me about it. I stupidly filled every gallon jug with JAO (and a couple of trial brews) and my two 23litre carboys within 4 days... now I HAVE to wait, and there's NOTHING I can do to entertain myself!

I guess I could buy another 23litre carboy... hmmm ;D

...aaaaaand that, folks, is how it starts... :)

kudapucat
05-24-2011, 11:40 PM
...aaaaaand that, folks, is how it starts... :)

On second thoughts, perhaps a 50 litre demi... ;-) nothing like 13 gallons of mead cooking... hmmmm!

PamW
05-26-2011, 05:47 PM
...aaaaaand that, folks, is how it starts... :)

It is indeed! Now that I have three 5 gallon carboys with mead fermenting away happily (two with Joe's in them and the other with a blackberry mel that I started without planning), I'm looking for ways to fund a stainless conical fermenter. All this after only a year.

The 10 gallons of Joe's is going to go fairly fast. I already have two cases of 375 ml. bottles spoken for, another case to age for a year or more, 2.5 gallons to try carbonating, and two cases of 12 oz beer bottles that I'll be sending out intermittently for competitions. The rest will go to parties or find homes quickly enough. They always do. As soon as the carboys are empty, I'll need to start another 10 gallons.