PDA

View Full Version : Rhizomel Category?



TheAlchemist
06-05-2011, 06:11 PM
Is there a Rhizomel category at the Mazer Cup?
If not, do meads made with potato, carrot or other roots qualify as "melomel" or as something else?

YogiBearMead726
06-05-2011, 06:52 PM
The style guidelines found here (http://www.mazercup.com/bjcp_category_26.htm) lists vegetable mead in the "Open Category".

Hope that helps.

akueck
06-05-2011, 11:34 PM
A rhizome is an underground stem that propagates the plant. Potatoes and carrots are not rhizomes (they are tubers/roots). Off the top of my head, I don't know of any rhizomes that people eat directly.

YogiBearMead726
06-05-2011, 11:56 PM
Does ginger count as a rhizome? I don't remember much from botany.

Chevette Girl
06-06-2011, 12:09 AM
Aha! According to Wikipedia, ginger is indeed a rhizome! Apparently so is hops, but we don't use the underground bits :) Now I wonder if horseradish is also a rhizome. Nope, just a root that's able to propagate but not specifically designed for it (don't ever rototill horseradish if you're trying to get rid of it, that just gets it angry!)

Oskaar
06-06-2011, 10:40 AM
You would want to enter them in Category 26C if they are vegetables, and 26A if is made with Ginger.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

TheAlchemist
06-06-2011, 07:10 PM
I just knew I had seen this term somewhere in my reading...turns out I spelled it wrong, it's "rhizamel" in Pam's Alchemical tome (pg 102), but she says that "rhizamels could be considered metheglins, although others insist they are melomels."

Some veggies, like pumpkin, zuchini and cucumber are considered "fruiting crops" from an agricultural standpoint, so would be melomels.

kudapucat
06-06-2011, 08:20 PM
A rhizome is an underground stem that propagates the plant. Potatoes and carrots are not rhizomes (they are tubers/roots). Off the top of my head, I don't know of any rhizomes that people eat directly.

As mentioned in a previous thread, the prefix would be better taken to be "Rhizo" making a Rhizo-mel.
Rhizoo only means root in Greek, so Rhizomel would be a root-mead. Which as we don't use the roots of hops, would actually disqualify it from the Rhizomel category.

TheAlchemist
06-06-2011, 08:42 PM
As mentioned in a previous thread, the prefix would be better taken to be "Rhizo" making a Rhizo-mel.
Rhizoo only means root in Greek, so Rhizomel would be a root-mead. Which as we don't use the roots of hops, would actually disqualify it from the Rhizomel category.

But we do use plenty of roots: beet, potato, carrot, ginger, etc

Loadnabox
06-06-2011, 08:42 PM
As mentioned in a previous thread, the prefix would be better taken to be "Rhizo" making a Rhizo-mel.
Rhizoo only means root in Greek, so Rhizomel would be a root-mead. Which as we don't use the roots of hops, would actually disqualify it from the Rhizomel category.

As long as we're on the terminology topic, I have yet to figure out what a dandelion mead would be called.

Dandelions would technically be vegetables, but it's only the flower petals you're using. I haven't quite determined what that would be

TheAlchemist
06-06-2011, 08:47 PM
As long as we're on the terminology topic, I have yet to figure out what a dandelion mead would be called.


Pam's text says anything made with flowers is a metheglin, although if you're using rose petals then it has its own special name: rhodamel.

YogiBearMead726
06-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Pam's text says anything made with flowers is a metheglin, although if you're using rose petals then it has its own special name: rhodamel.

+1 on the metheglyn classification. That is what my hibiscus mead falls under.

Chevette Girl
06-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Some veggies, like pumpkin, zuchini and cucumber are considered "fruiting crops" from an agricultural standpoint, so would be melomels.

Tomatoes too... and rhubarb is technically a vegetable...

TheAlchemist
06-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Tomatoes too... and rhubarb is technically a vegetable...

Tomato is technically a fruit. Rhubarb is a veggie, though...

akueck
06-06-2011, 11:32 PM
I think you'd not fare well entering anything in the melomel category that folks would not instantly recognize as "fruit": any sort of berry e.g. blue-, straw-, rasp-; common tree fruits e.g. citrus, stone fruits like peach, plum, apricot; tropical fruits e.g. pineapple, mango, papaya. Apples and grapes have their own categories. If you enter a zucchini-mel, it will be marked off for not being in the vegetable category. Yes, zucchini is a fruit in the strict definition. But I'd say 90% or more of mead judges would call it a vegetable. I'd even enter rhubarb in open category.

I like the rhizo-mel idea though, hadn't thought to break the word up like that. ;) I'd be shocked if the category got big enough to break out of "open", but it's a fun word to bandy about.

Oskaar
06-07-2011, 01:42 PM
I can pretty much guarantee you that if you don't enter things that are off the beaten path in the 26C category, they'll get dinged. This is a BJCP shortcoming and they won't budge in their categories.

Also, in any of the competitions that I've judged or organized, these entries are so minimal that it doesn't make sense to have a specific category to cover them. Have fun with the Taxonomy, I think it's great that you all are so creative, just remember when you enter a contest that your definitions or terms hold no sway in what categories are used.

Cheers,

Oskaar

TheAlchemist
06-07-2011, 07:34 PM
This is a BJCP shortcoming and they won't budge in their categories.

Cheers,

Oskaar

I'm confused. Mead isn't beer. How does the BJCP come into play when judging mead?

wayneb
06-07-2011, 09:11 PM
I'm confused. Mead isn't beer. How does the BJCP come into play when judging mead?

Oh, you ask a very simple question, with a rather complex answer there! ;)

But let me try to give you the summary answer. Essentially, they do because 1) Nobody else was doing it when the BJCP came on the scene, and 2) There historically was a lot of overlap between home beer brewers and home meadmakers early in the development of the hobby here in the US (that would be roughly in the period between 1977 and 1997). To many beer brewers of that era, meadmaking was a logical extension of their hobby, so they "adopted" the meadmaking community and provided a framework around which some standard mead making processes and mead judging criteria could be established.

Many of the seasoned veterans here on Gotmead have made as much beer as mead, and several are BJCP certified beer judges already. It is to the credit of folks like Ken Schramm, Pete Bakulic (Oskaar), Vicky, Mike Zapolski (Hightest) and several others that the guidelines for judging mead have been significantly developed, refined and enhanced (not to mention corrected) over the past decade, and it is in large part because of their efforts that a separate mead judge designation exists within the current BJCP framework.

That said, there may now exist enough independent interest in meadmaking to support organization of a mead-centric education and evaluation entity... but the amount of work required to pull off something like that is daunting, and gaining acceptance (or at least avoiding overt criticism) from the BJCP and other beer brewers may not be easy.

Oskaar
06-08-2011, 07:37 AM
Wayne summarized the issue very well.

BJCP judges work for points to increase their knowledge, experience and ranking. Without that incentive it is very difficult to find enough judges to pull off a competition.

Finding judges is another issue. The BJCP provides a listing of judges, their contact information, location and rankings all in a nice neat bundle. That seems simple and straight forward until you try to compile a listing yourself, that is independent of the BJCP. Without an organization to provide an incentive for judges to participate in, they won't.