PDA

View Full Version : Attempting JAOM



psuath
06-28-2011, 12:47 PM
I'll be attempting my first mead recipe this weekend, the JAOM listed on this website.

I do have one question though. At the end of the article it says to put a filter around the tube and siphon. so basically just take fine mesh cloth, wrap it over the end of the siphon tube, secure with a rubber band and start transfer? I want to bottle a nice looking batch but not have most of the crud end up in the bottle. any suggestions?

Thanks

YogiBearMead726
06-28-2011, 01:24 PM
I'll be attempting my first mead recipe this weekend, the JAOM listed on this website.

I do have one question though. At the end of the article it says to put a filter around the tube and siphon. so basically just take fine mesh cloth, wrap it over the end of the siphon tube, secure with a rubber band and start transfer? I want to bottle a nice looking batch but not have most of the crud end up in the bottle. any suggestions?

Thanks

First off, welcome to GotMead! ;D

I believe that the cheesecloth is meant to just keep the big stuff from clogging the siphon. It probably won't do much to keep the yeasty sediment out of your bottles.

What you should do, is wait for it to be clear (like in the directions :p), then rack the JAOM off of the sediment at the bottom and into a new 1 gallon carboy. You can then wait another month or two for more sediment to drop, repeat the process (without the cheesecloth this time), and you should have pretty crystal clear mead.

One added bonus to this method is that while you're "waiting" for the sediment to drop out, you're also allowing the mead to age in bulk, which will give more consistency between different bottles once you actually do bottle.

Hope that helps, and good luck with your first batch! ;D

psuath
06-28-2011, 02:16 PM
I thought racking was a no-no per the recipe?

anyway, i plan on making 3 batches. 1 with 1 clove, one with 2 and another with yet to be determined "extras". I'll have 4 jugs, so i'll transfer one to a clean jug, clean and sanitize the old and use for the 2nd gallon and so for the third.

I think i'll get about 5 bottles per gallon, correct? maybe 4 and then some. so maybe i'll do a mix with the remaining bits from the batches. any experience with mixing different batches while bottling?

I'll still need to use the airlock as it bulk ages, correct?

and thanks for the info. I can't wait to stop at the store on the way home from work on friday.

YogiBearMead726
06-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I thought racking was a no-no per the recipe?

Well, yes and no. I'm pretty sure that what Joe means when he says "Don't you dare" to the racking idea is "Don't do anything to this until it is done and clear". It's a fairly common practice to rack/transfer to secondary after primary has slowed down to help clear things up. But with this recipe, it just needs to stay in primary until clear. So, it is ok to rack this into a vessel for bulk aging/further clearing, just not during the 2 months or so it'll take to drop clear.


I think i'll get about 5 bottles per gallon, correct? maybe 4 and then some. so maybe i'll do a mix with the remaining bits from the batches. any experience with mixing different batches while bottling?

Assuming ~3.785L/US gallon, you should get right around five 750mL bottles, though that is ideally. As you say, it'll probably be more like four and some left over, since the lees/fruit will take up some of that gallon's volume.

As for blending, do some taste tests. Take a measured amount of each batch for the potential blend, and play around with different ratios until you find one you like. Then just use that ratio when you blend.


I'll still need to use the airlock as it bulk ages, correct?

You've got it. :)

psuath
06-28-2011, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

I'll try and post notes/progress as i go through the process.

kudapucat
06-28-2011, 09:14 PM
Yeah, Joe leaves you witha good product once it's clear and the fruit has dropped. You're free to bottle, rebottle, rack, drink, do whatever you like once it's clear and the fruit has dropped.

If it's clear and the fruit hasn't dropped, then it's pretty good, but has some fermenting yet to do, you can get away with racking it at this point, but it does break the warranty

THawk
07-01-2011, 08:45 AM
Well Joe does say that he doesn't wait for all the fruit to drop... I did my 2-gallon JAO (OB honey) that way and it did turn out sweeter than the first batch when I waited for all the fruit to sink... I will say, though, that the raisins from the initial ferment were delicious... it was like eating liquor filled chocolates... :)

psuath
07-02-2011, 03:37 PM
aight, so i finally got them started. I did 3 batches. 2 with 1 clove, one with 2 cloves. had some big navel oranges...juicy so it was a mess trying to get the slices of 8 in a bottle.. rather messy if you will.

then the shaking... 3 gallon jugs shaking for 5 min each is tough. it's been about 1.5 hours and they are starting to bubble. hopefully by the 4th it'll be going good. Start of sepetember i should be ready to eithe rack or bottle. I have 1 clean 1gal jug, so i may rack one, clean...rack clean...etc.

Now i have my 7 gallon fermentation bucket and 6 gallon carboy i need to use to start a long term project. any good starter "real" mead recipes?

Chevette Girl
07-02-2011, 05:48 PM
I have 1 clean 1gal jug, so i may rack one, clean...rack clean...etc.


Well, they all need to be cleaned anyway, right? (this is how I generally do it myself)

psuath
07-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Well, they all need to be cleaned anyway, right? (this is how I generally do it myself)

yup, they do. but i figured if i make 3 batches (jugs come 4/case) then i can rack one for aging, then clean/sanatize, then i rack the second gallon..and the third. they all need cleaned, yup.

now like i said, i have that 7 gallon fermenter/ 6 gallon carboy...

YogiBearMead726
07-02-2011, 06:02 PM
now like i said, i have that 7 gallon fermenter/ 6 gallon carboy...

Well, what about a 6.5 gallon batch of JAO? ;D

But in all seriousness, how about a strawberry mead? They're in season and if you can find a pick-your-own place, they are cheap and fresh. Maybe use some 71B?

Or go for a traditional with some local honey to see if you like the results.

Lots of possibilities, I just suggested a berry batch since you have a bucket to better manage the fruit cap with. Melomels in carboys=horrid MEA's. I speak from experience...

Chevette Girl
07-02-2011, 06:03 PM
You could always start out with a traditional mead if you've got a honey you like :) Or if you've got access to some sort of fruit that's coming into season, start planning for a melomel. Oh, and if you go for a mel, I highly recommend using a fruit bag!

psuath
07-02-2011, 08:00 PM
i may go with some black rasberries or the like. my M-I-L loves to pick berries so maybe i'll be able to steal from her stash.

wife wants me to wait until this batch is "done" before i make a large batch.

Chevette Girl
07-03-2011, 02:15 AM
wife wants me to wait until this batch is "done" before i make a large batch.

<puppydog eyes> oh, but it's a completely different fermentation style if you make a traditional, compared with JAO! Letting the other one finish won't make this one any better... and it's not like you have to wait for the carboys to empty... </puppydog eyes>

Sorry, getting you in trouble... ;D

I tried a black raspberry JAO once and I didn't use anywhere near enough berries, I think if you go for a black raspberry mel you're going to want to use at least 3 lbs per gallon, the recipe I use for red raspberry wine wants 3-4 lbs of those... so a 6-gal is a LOT of berries. But since I haven't actually made the black raspberry yet (they're still in the freezer), do a check with the search engine on "black raspberry" (using the quotations) narrowed to title and see if you get any hits from people who have.

psuath
07-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Well about 20 hours in and its going strong. Even the wife with cloghed sinuses can smell the lovely brew. now when to add the top off water... before placing in the closet for a feq weeks...

fatbloke
07-03-2011, 09:54 AM
The no racking thing from Joe's recipe is logically correct for this type of brew, but what you find in practice, is that bread yeast doesn't flocculate (settle) very well i.e. it settles out, yes, but you find that any slight movement of it will bring a small amount of the sediment back into solution, so unless you're capable of the smoothest movement of the fermenter in the world or you have some way of siphoning the product off the sediment and fruit so as not to disturb the sediment, then the practical way of doing this is one of 2 ways.

Method 1 is to move the fermenter to where you're actually going to siphon it from/to a couple of days in advance, so that any sediment that does come back into solution, gets to settle back down before the event....

Method 2 is to move the fermenter, then siphon the main part of the liquid into another container, only siphoning the clearest part into that. Then, get a long, slim shaped container, then siphon the rest of the liquid out into that. Then put that into the fridge for a couple of days, which allows the sediment to drop out of the liquid. So that as there's no fruit or the like to move around, it allows for a more accurate siphoning of the rest of the liquid off the lees. This also gives time for any tiny amount that might have passed through the siphon into the main container to have dropped out as well, so that can also be siphoned accurately from any remaining sediment. This method is what I prefer as it seems to reduce racking losses to a minimum and seems to be possibly less wasteful.

This is my only diversion from the original recipe instructions, other than having to use a local brand of bread yeast - the one in the recipe isn't available here.

It seems to work fine, giving a good product, which is probably slightly less sweet as I make it to 1 imp gallon i.e. 4.55 litres, which usually yields 5 and 1/2 bottles.

Oh, and you don't need to cut the orange into 1/8ths, it can be more to allow for differences in the size of the access hole in the fermenter - just as long as you use the whole fruit.

regards

fatbloke

kudapucat
07-03-2011, 06:02 PM
<snip>

Oh, and you don't need to cut the orange into 1/8ths, it can be more to allow for differences in the size of the access hole in the fermenter - just as long as you use the whole fruit.

regards

fatbloke

Ummm has anybody else done this?
I was reasonably certain that surface area of exposed pith was directly proportional to bitterness in a JAO, and that the 8 slices were crucial. ie, if you have to, cut it into 10, but don't include the rind of 2 of them.
I've never deviated from the 8 slices, so I may be completely wrong.

Chevette Girl
07-04-2011, 01:03 AM
I suspect that if you're leaving the orange pieces in long enough that they sink, you're probably getting full transfer of everything the pith has to offer anyway... might be something to try on two side by side batches, cut one orange in 4 and one in 16 and see if there's a difference in bitterness...

Now, that's an experiment I'm _not_ putting on my to-do list. I only use the zest and the fruit because I discovered early on that JAO made with pith gives me heartburn, my modification still works fine though...

psuath
07-04-2011, 01:21 PM
i'm thinking when i make my 6gallon batch i'll cut the fruit out and zest the rinds.

but anyways... i added some water, and got some bubblies in the airlock. Should i leave them or clean it out? it went up around the first bend but isn't actually in the water...

and my wife say's i'm obsessing over this first batch. I say no. when i walk by the kitchen i check it to see it bubbling and all. nothing major. plus don't all of you name each yeast colony in the batches, right?

AToE
07-04-2011, 02:51 PM
My understanding is that many who've tried cutting the orange into less or more than eighths has either ended up with too little or too much pithyness. Might be a totally fine mod for someone who's done the recipe and knows what they want, but I'd think that for someone new to the recipe 8ths is actually a fairly important part of it.

Loadnabox
07-05-2011, 09:07 AM
My understanding is that many who've tried cutting the orange into less or more than eighths has either ended up with too little or too much pithyness. Might be a totally fine mod for someone who's done the recipe and knows what they want, but I'd think that for someone new to the recipe 8ths is actually a fairly important part of it.

Agreed, reading through the entire JAO thread Joe himself states that he found the recipe worked best (to his tastes) when cut into 8th's, though many people find no issues with smaller pieces, and some go to great lengths to reduce pith taste via peeling etc.

psuath
07-20-2011, 09:41 AM
so it's been about 3 weeks. it looks like all 3 batches are starting to clear. After they clear/fruit drops, i'll probably rack them together into a single carboy.

i was wondering if there's a difference between using vanilla beans vs. vanilla extract to make a "creamcicle" type of JAO.

Thoughts?

Chevette Girl
07-20-2011, 01:03 PM
I know someone did a Creamsicle style JAO... Orange Dream, maybe? Use the search tool and limit it to titles at first, dig deeper if that doesn't find it...

YogiBearMead726
07-21-2011, 09:17 AM
i was wondering if there's a difference between using vanilla beans vs. vanilla extract to make a "creamcicle" type of JAO.

Thoughts?

If you use beans, you have a little more control over what kind of vanilla character you get. The different varieties have different uses in the culinary world, and can be used similarly in mead making. It will also take a bit longer than extract to get the amount of vanilla you're looking for.

As for extract, it's basically just alcohol soaked vanilla (what you'd be doing if you just use the beans), so someone has already done the hard part for you. It will integrate faster than whole beans, but at the cost of not knowing what is in it (ie Bourbon or Tahitian or Madagascar, etc). The extract should work just fine though for a "creamcicle" flavor. Just don't use too much.

psuath
07-21-2011, 10:23 AM
so really, in a pinch i could just add the extract to say a single bottle or serving, but if i wanted to make a batch, using the whole bean would be better?

YogiBearMead726
07-21-2011, 11:20 AM
so really, in a pinch i could just add the extract to say a single bottle or serving, but if i wanted to make a batch, using the whole bean would be better?

Well, it's really up to you. The whole bean won't necessarily be "better", just different. Whether it tastes better is dependent on your personal tastes. There is nothing unnatural about the extract (just alcohol and vanilla), so you could easily use it for whatever you want. Be it in the glass, in a bottle, or with the whole batch.

Using the whole beans just gives you a bit more control over the kind of vanilla flavor you get (subtle, overtly in your face, spicy, sweet, etc). It basically just comes down to personal taste and how much you're willing to dish out for some more exotic varieties of vanilla bean, if so desired.

psuath
07-25-2011, 10:54 AM
quick update.

been just over 3 weeks and it looks like it's starting to clear. i think the "2 clove" batch is clearest. now, all 3 batches still are murky. i'm thinking the 95 degree heat wave that covered the nation "helped" out with the mead. The thermostat right next to the closet with the mead was reading about 79 degrees. (is not having central air a good or bad thing?)

I think what i'm going to do is basically rack off the good stuff from the 3 batches into 1 gallon jug, then any additional will just get bottled. from the bottled stuff, i'll use some extract to see how the vanilla flavoring goes.

then, my plan is to make about a 6 gallon batch (yeah for large primary fermenters and carboys) and take 1 gallon and use the bean approach. then after i have a stock of the "simple stuff" i'll move on to making the more traditional types of mead.

psuath
08-13-2011, 09:56 PM
next update:
racked from the 3 1 gallon jugs into 2 1 gallon jugs, and i had a bit left over for 1 and 3/4 of a regular wine bottle.

i'm a bit worried, because the sg at the time was about 1.048. everything looked clear, and the samples that i took to read tasted great. nice orange flavor, subtle clove and cinnamon. a bit of "fuel" was in there too, but not too bad. I'm hoping that if i leave the two jugs for another 2-3 months it'll smooth out a bit before i bottle.

i'll keep you posted.

psuath
01-22-2012, 04:11 PM
So i finally bottled the 2 gallons yesterday. got 9 and 1/3 bottles. Forgot to take a FG reading, but seeing as how i didn't have a OG reading, i can't say much.

I took a bottle to a outing for my wife's work. One of her co-workers had 2 glasses and couldn't get over it. Another co-worker's husband was asking for the recipe. And this is a guy who drinks only coors light and jack&coke.

I took it to my parents later that evening, and they tried it. They weren't fond of it, but they don't like the sweet and spices in wines, so it was a hard sell for them.

my wife and i both liked it, so i'll take it as a win. Gonna finish the 1/3 bottle, and let the rest age.

Come spring, i'll be making a 6 gallon batch.

Chevette Girl
01-22-2012, 06:35 PM
Glad to hear it went over well! My parents haven't been fond of anything sweet either, but they really seemed to like some dry stuff I brought over because I don't like it dry... You could try a gallon or two of a dry traditonal mead at some point to see if you like it and if they like it (the nice thing about that is you don't need as much honey as for a JAO).

psuath
01-22-2012, 06:52 PM
I also hope to move on a few months so I really don't want to get too much going. Once we get settled ill hope to make some traditional, melomel and well whatever.

Posted from my Thunderbolt using tapatalk.

Chevette Girl
01-22-2012, 07:20 PM
JAO's a perfect thing if you're not sure how much time you'll have.