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YogiBearMead726
07-19-2011, 10:41 AM
After reading some of Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers: The Secrects of Ancient Fermentation, I was intrigued by the section about bees. While I had known the some of the benefits of eating raw honey, I had no idea that consuming most of what the bees produce would produce such amazing healing properties. Apparently, Pliney the Elder documented several examples of people living to be 120+ years old, mostly beekeepers and those who consumed bee products regularly. This, to me, sounds a little too good to be true, but is worth checking out myself.

Just as a little experiment, I plan to up my intake of bee products (honey, propolis, bee pollen, and royal jelly) for the next six months to see if I feel any effects. I've already taken to eating a tablespoon of raw honey twice per day, and will be ordering the other stuff once my next paycheck arrives.

Has anyone else tried doing something like this? According to the book, honey and bee pollen are complete foods (as in, you could survive eating just that and water). That plus all the antimicrobial properties of honey, propolis, and royal jelly, seems to indicate some beneficial health properties.

Anywho, just thought I'd share some info and start up a discussion about it, since we as mead makers are so reliant on our friends the bees. Perhaps we should be a little more so in our diets as well?

kudapucat
07-19-2011, 10:58 AM
I have the book, yet havent read much of it yet. Interesting idea.

AToE
07-19-2011, 01:23 PM
Well I can tell you 100% for sure that honey is definitely not a complete food, actually it's probably almost as far from it as you could get (you'd be better off living off of bacon than honey), it's really just sugar. If someone tried to eat it and nothing else they'd be malnourished very quickly. Mix it with pollin would definitely improve it though.

I don't really know how much to trust this idea, but as a food suppliment it may work well, hard to say. Would be nice to get some modern takes on the subject.

Chevette Girl
07-19-2011, 01:33 PM
I have heard that eating raw local honey decreases allergic sensitivities to the plants the honey's made from... (hay fever etc)

Riverat
07-19-2011, 01:59 PM
Hmm, much smaller portions of greater variety of more food groups would be all I could advise on long life through eating, me I eat just about anything that either doesn't put up too much of a fight or can't get out of the way!

AToE
07-19-2011, 02:20 PM
That is really the simplest way to put it, people have all kinds of crazy schemes to good diets, but the reality is just eat as much variety as possible and one will be fine. Don't always eat the same kind of leafy green, the same kind of bean, same kind of fruit, same kind of meat, same kind of grain... I've yet to strike a balance I like but I'm getting better.

We're realistically pretty hard to kill with food unless we take in too many calories for our lifestyle, too much sugar, bad fats, etc. People on this planet survive on some pretty extreme diets (not always for that long of course...).

Chevette Girl
07-19-2011, 02:35 PM
Moderation in all things, including moderation. Now and then, one must have a complete chocolate bender or half a pizza.

YogiBearMead726
07-19-2011, 04:11 PM
I disagree that raw honey is basically just sugar. The sugars in honey are different from the sugar in white table sugar (fructose/glucose and sucrose, respectively). Thus, honey is easier for our body to digest, since the sugars are monosaccharides, requiring now special enzymes to digest (unlike sucrose).

On top of that, the mineral content (all necessary minerals for humans are present in raw honey, varying in quantity based on source), vitamin content (most all the necessary ones again), the enzymatic properties, all eight essential amino acids, and who knows what else, present in raw honey set it far above simple sugar.

Add in bee pollen, propolis, and royal jelly (and bee venom, if you want to be really like those ancient mead makers) and you've got something really good for you. The royal jelly alone extends the queen's life from the average six weeks to about 5 years.

And, if you factor in the fact that most mead back then was made by just tossing the whole hive in, angry bees and all, the larva and bees would provide a good deal of protein, on top of that found in the royal jelly.

Thus, if we consider that these proposed bee keepers from Briton were utilizing all of these things, both as food stuffs and as mead, it stands to reason they were pretty healthy.

That said, I do agree that other foods are vital for a healthy diet, I just wanted to examine the added benefit of utilizing all these things as a supplement to a normal diet/exercise routine. And just eating honey all day would probably not be very good either. ;)

Edit: The "ancients" also probably just drank the yeast along with the mead, adding even more vitamins and amino acids to their diets. This is why I bottle condition my beers, and save the slurry for a final vitamin shot, if you will. :)

AToE
07-19-2011, 04:28 PM
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to poo-poo honey or anything, just saying that it doesn't qualify as "complete" in my opinion - it does have lots of other stuff in it, but in nowhere near the amount needed to keep a human healthy/alive if trying to live on a honey only diet (to call a food "complete" to me it has to be something you could survive on indefinitely).

The pollin is great stuff, lots good for you in there, that's quite a bit more substantial than the honey for sure, the royal jelly is a bit of a mystery as I understand it though. I don't think anyone has really figured out what it does for humans yet (I could be wrong), obviously it's practically an immortality drug for bees though. It's got lots of nutrition in it, but the real question is that protein that triggers larvae to become queens, whether that does anything for humans at all.

YogiBearMead726
07-19-2011, 05:12 PM
I think some other cultures use the jelly for medicinal things, but I think you're right...what exactly it does to us is still a big mystery.

I figure it can't hurt to try it out and see if I feel a difference though. :)

chams
07-19-2011, 08:32 PM
Well not to poo-poo your efforts, but it's a very unscientific approach, ie. it can't answer any question really. You may feel better but you'll have no way to determine what made you feel better (or worse for that matter).
You have no control group and a sample size of one which is better known as an anecdote.
I guess this is why diets are so unproven. To show that you increased life expectancy, you would need a study over several hundred years with several hundred participants willing to test unproven diets. ;)

YogiBearMead726
07-19-2011, 09:00 PM
Well not to poo-poo your efforts, but it's a very unscientific approach, ie. it can't answer any question really. You may feel better but you'll have no way to determine what made you feel better (or worse for that matter).
You have no control group and a sample size of one which is better known as an anecdote.
I guess this is why diets are so unproven. To show that you increased life expectancy, you would need a study over several hundred years with several hundred participants willing to test unproven diets. ;)

I realize this won't be some scientific study, but it'll be something I just do for my own curiosity. All things constant, I want to see what, if anything, happens. :)

There are also quite a few studies referenced/cited in the aforementioned book. While I haven't looked at the citations at the end yet (still about halfway through), there seems to be quite a few in the bee section.

Riverat
07-19-2011, 09:16 PM
Moderation in all things, including moderation. Now and then, one must have a complete chocolate bender or half a pizza.

Amen sister, Amen!

kudapucat
07-19-2011, 09:35 PM
Well not to poo-poo your efforts, but it's a very unscientific approach, ie. it can't answer any question really. You may feel better but you'll have no way to determine what made you feel better (or worse for that matter).
You have no control group and a sample size of one which is better known as an anecdote.
I guess this is why diets are so unproven. To show that you increased life expectancy, you would need a study over several hundred years with several hundred participants willing to test unproven diets. ;)

That's what mice are good for... time passes 10 times faster for them :-D
And they're pretty good analogs for humans, believe it or not.
I just don't know if they'd be all too pleased at eating honey...

chams
07-19-2011, 09:46 PM
That's what mice are good for... time passes 10 times faster for them :-D
And they're pretty good analogs for humans, believe it or not.
I just don't know if they'd be all too pleased at eating honey...

I don't see why one couldn't follow up a promising result with mice with a human study. Except for that several centuries thing... ;D

Perhaps soon we can digitally describe the human analogue and run some interesting tests! That's a lot of chemical reactions! ;)

Chevette Girl
07-19-2011, 11:22 PM
That's what mice are good for... time passes 10 times faster for them :-D
And they're pretty good analogs for humans, believe it or not.
I just don't know if they'd be all too pleased at eating honey...

I've had a lot of rodents over the years and I don't think any of them would turn up their noses at honey. Especially if the wild one that lived under my bed and got into my chocolate stash is any indication of potential for rodent sweet tooth...

kudapucat
07-19-2011, 11:25 PM
Yeah but it's gooey. Maybe if it were heavily crystallised.

Chevette Girl
07-19-2011, 11:41 PM
"gooey" doesn't really calculate when you're a rodent... you've obviously never watched a hamster or rat go at something with peanut butter on it! :)

Plus once they discover something's sticky, they'll just lick the edges...

kudapucat
07-20-2011, 12:17 AM
"gooey" doesn't really calculate when you're a rodent... you've obviously never watched a hamster or rat go at something with peanut butter on it! :)

Plus once they discover something's sticky, they'll just lick the edges...

I see, no, I was a pretty reserved child. My rats only ever got fed dry foodstuffs. No outside the box human foods, barring a little bread. ;-)

TheAlchemist
08-13-2011, 12:13 PM
After reading some of Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers: The Secrects of Ancient Fermentation, I was intrigued by the section about bees. While I had known the some of the benefits of eating raw honey, I had no idea that consuming most of what the bees produce would produce such amazing healing properties. Apparently, Pliney the Elder documented several examples of people living to be 120+ years old, mostly beekeepers and those who consumed bee products regularly...

Just as a little experiment, I plan to up my intake of bee products (honey, propolis, bee pollen, and royal jelly) for the next six months...

According to the book, honey and bee pollen are complete foods...



How's your experiment with this going, Yogi? Do you notice health benefits?

I know Simon (a la The Shamanic Way of the Bee) survived on just honey and pollen for some 23(?) days and I know his mentor, Bridge, lived a good long while and died happily reclining under his hives...

TheAlchemist
08-13-2011, 12:15 PM
...Now and then, one must have a complete chocolate bender or half a pizza.

Amen, Sister.

YogiBearMead726
08-13-2011, 02:50 PM
How's your experiment with this going, Yogi? Do you notice health benefits?

I know Simon (a la The Shamanic Way of the Bee) survived on just honey and pollen for some 23(?) days and I know his mentor, Bridge, lived a good long while and died happily reclining under his hives...

Well, I've been eating 2 Tbsp of raw honey and 2 Tbsp of pollen per day, one each in the morning, the other at night, for the past 2 weeks.

So far, not sure if it is making me healthier, but I feel better during the day. My allergies are dying down (they are normally going crazy this time of year). I have noticed a bit more energy at work. All of this could be coincidence, but I like to think the bee products are responsible. ;)

I still need to incorporate propolis and royal jelly into this "experiment", but I'll post again once I do.

AToE
08-13-2011, 03:53 PM
The allergy thing doesn't surprise me, I've often heard local honey (raw) prescribed to help with allergies to pollin and such in the air. I think it's actually the small doses of the offending pollins being taken that fix the problem.

2 weeks is a short time anyways, very little is likely to happen in such a span unless you'd switched to eating nothing but pollin and honey, in which case I imagine you'd be pretty horribly sick by now! ;D

MrMooCow
08-14-2011, 10:54 AM
Ok, not to be an ass, but the claim that honey has all the essential amino acids is absurd. Yes, in a purely technical sense, this is true. However, practically speaking it isn't. A 2000 calorie diet composed of honey would contain 2 - 3 grams of protein. Far short of what is required for good health. The wikipedia article on honey doesn't even seem to mention amino acids, I had to go Bing it.

Royal jelly appears to be better, but the cost of living off of royal jelly would be astronomical. Plus, if it turns larvae into queen bees, what would it do to me? I really can't afford to turn into a queen. The cost of replacing all my suits with dresses alone would break me..... ;)

- Brett

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

Echostatic
08-14-2011, 04:52 PM
When you consider the placebo effect, it's gonna be really hard if not impossible to know if it's doing anything for you. Things like "feeling better" and having "more energy" are common placebo effects. Not saying raw honey isn't benefitting you, but unfortunately there won't be any way to tell one way or the other.

YogiBearMead726
08-14-2011, 08:55 PM
Please keep in mind, I'm talking about eating all of the bee products (honey, pollen, propolis, royal jelly, bee venom, and possibly even bees themselves) not just raw honey. I will say, this would be much easier/cheaper if I kept bees myself instead of buying all this from other sources.

I realize (as stated previously) that honey alone is an incomplete source of food, but I'd rather get vitamins from bee products and fresh veggies than taking isolated "supplements". To me, consuming whole, unprocessed products that contain trace amounts of "good stuff" (amino acids, plant based chemicals, and the like) is much better for you than consuming isolated compounds from said products. I think it has to do with the way these compounds interact with other things in the plants, and once isolated, they behave differently than in their natural state.

As for the placebo effect, yes, it's a very good possibility that that is what is going on. Especially since I have no way of measuring the effects, and have only been doing this for a few weeks. In a few years though, assuming I stay consistent, I'm not so sure any effects felt would be from the placebo effect. I also don't really believe the placebo effect is a bad thing...the brain is very powerful, and it can do pretty amazing things if encouraged to do so, even if that encouragement is subconscious. As for not being able to tell whether the bee products are helping, or if it's just my brain, I agree, there's almost no way for me to tell. I'll leave that for scientists and test groups to figure out. ;)

I'll post the references from the book tonight when I get home so that people can see for themselves why I feel like there is substance to the theory.

AToE
08-14-2011, 11:49 PM
I realize (as stated previously) that honey alone is an incomplete source of food, but I'd rather get vitamins from bee products and fresh veggies than taking isolated "supplements". To me, consuming whole, unprocessed products that contain trace amounts of "good stuff" (amino acids, plant based chemicals, and the like) is much better for you than consuming isolated compounds from said product.

Definitely. I have a friend who's a gym-rat that I try to explain this to all the time. He says to me "you've got to stop thinking of food as pleasure and think of it as food to get into the shape you want" and my response is "I already do, I just understand the fuel better than you! You gotta stop thinking about meals like eating pills in an SF movie and start thinking about what you've spent millions of freaking years evolving to eat!".

This guy lives off of bread, protein powder and vitamin suppliments. I keep telling him over and over "the label says SUPPLIMENT not REPLACEMENT!!!". Oh well, he'll learn eventually I hope.

YogiBearMead726
08-15-2011, 01:05 AM
This guy lives off of bread, protein powder and vitamin suppliments. I keep telling him over and over "the label says SUPPLIMENT not REPLACEMENT!!!". Oh well, he'll learn eventually I hope.

Hopefully indeed. There is no way that can be "good" for you. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to eat things in the way which we have evolved to eat them. Distilling things down isn't always a good thing, as alcohol can attest to. Small amounts can stimulate the liver to perform it's regular functions better...too much (think distilled) acts as a poison. It's interesting to me that indigenous cultures have exceedingly low instances of alcoholism. This is probably due to the highly social and sacred underpinnings of traditional alcoholic beverages, among other things.

As for the "ancient" mead makers/bee keepers, it does seem like most cultures drink their fermented beverages at a young age, with yeast still in solution at a discernible level. This, the more I think about it, would make up for (somewhat) any short-comings of the other bee products in vitamin and amino acid content. It certainly doesn't hurt.

A lot of indigenous cultures refer to their fermented beverages as a food and a drink, implying a learned knowledge of the health benefits of the concoctions that they brew, be it from corn, agave, milt, palm sap, rice, saguaro fruit, the list goes on.

As for references, they'll have to wait until tomorrow. I seemed to have misplaced the book during all the craziness of packing/moving...and I have to work early, so I need to sleep and stop checking the forums... :rolleyes:

TheAlchemist
08-15-2011, 09:33 AM
I realize (as stated previously) that honey alone is an incomplete source of food, but I'd rather get vitamins from bee products and fresh veggies than taking isolated "supplements". To me, consuming whole, unprocessed products that contain trace amounts of "good stuff" (amino acids, plant based chemicals, and the like) is much better for you than consuming isolated compounds from said products. I think it has to do with the way these compounds interact with other things in the plants, and once isolated, they behave differently than in their natural state.



I'm with you. I read Omnivore's Dilemma where Pollan delineates the changes in (Unsustainable)agriculture when we discovered the chemicals that make plants more fertile and started using only the chemicals, rather than using the holisitc ways of Nature(evolved over time).

This is part of why I use pollen rather than packaged yeast energizer in meadmaking.

Chevette Girl
08-17-2011, 01:02 AM
Please keep in mind, I'm talking about eating all of the bee products (honey, pollen, propolis, royal jelly, bee venom, and possibly even bees themselves) not just raw honey. I will say, this would be much easier/cheaper if I kept bees myself instead of buying all this from other sources.

I do recall once seeing a beekeeper's recipe for honey cookies that used bees instead of chocolate chips... but I can't recall if he pulled the stingers out first or not.

YogiBearMead726
08-17-2011, 11:25 AM
I do recall once seeing a beekeeper's recipe for honey cookies that used bees instead of chocolate chips... but I can't recall if he pulled the stingers out first or not.

Haha, sounds interesting!

Well, I finally dug the book out of the box it was in (not with the other books for some reason...:rolleyes:), but I'm at work now. I'll post the references and info this afternoon.

TheAlchemist
08-18-2011, 11:01 AM
I finally dug the book out of the box it was in I'll post the references and info this afternoon.

Looking forward to references.
Myself, I rarely use sugar in a recipe any more, just honey. Don't include bees in recipes (yet), though...

TheAlchemist
09-05-2011, 04:33 PM
Fun Pollen Fact:
A one teaspoon dose of pollen takes one bee working eight hours a day for one month to gather.

YogiBearMead726
09-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Alright, I'm finally getting settled in the new place, and I have time to finally update this thread. So, since it's gonna take me too long to post every detail in the book, I thought I'd post the things referenced in Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers and separate them according to what they were in reference to (honey, pollen, propolis, royal jelly, bee venom). From the looks of it, I am going to have to do a lot more reading...:rolleyes:

Honey
- Patrick Quillin, Honey, Garlic, and Vinegar (North Canton, OH: The Leader Company, 1996), 15, 17.
- Rita Elkins, Bee Pollen, Royal Jelly, Propolis, and Honey (Pleasant Grove, UT: Woodland Publishing, 1996), 47, 48, 49, 51, 52.
- Robert and Michele Root-Bernstein, Honey, Mud, and Maggots (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1997), 32, 35, 36 (Citing Postumes, van den Bogaard and Hazen, "Honey for Wounds, Ulcers, and Skin Graft Preservation," Lancet 341, 1993: 756-757), 41.
- N. al Somal, et al., Lancet 341 (March 20, 1993). Quoted in Quillin, Honey, Garlic, and Vinegar, 26.
- A. T. Ali and M.N. Chowdhury, et al., "Inhibitory effect of natural honey on Helicobacter pylori," Trop-Gastroenterology 12, no. 3 (July-September 1991): 139-142. Cited in Elkins, Bee Pollen, 51.
- M. Subrahmanyam, British Journal of Plastic Surgery 46, no. 4 (June 1993): 322. Cited in Quillin, Honey, Garlic, and Vinegar, 27.
- W. Phuapradit, et al., Australia and New Zealand Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 32, no. 4 (November 1992): 381, and S.E. Efem, Surgery 113, no. 2 (February 1993): 200. Cited in Quillin, Honey, Garlic, and Vinegar, 27.
- E. F. Elbagoury and S. Rasmy, "Antibacterial action of natural honey on anaerobic bacteroides," Journal of Egyptian Dentistry 39, no. 1 (January 1993): 381-86, and G. Ndayisaba, L. Bazira, and E. Haboniman, "Treatment of Wounds with Honey," Presse-Med. 3:21, no. 32 (October 1992): 1516-8. Cited in Elkins, Bee Pollen, 51.
- J. H. Dustmann, "Bee Products for Human Health," American Bee Journal 136, no. 4 (April 1996): 275.
- Bodog Beck and Doree Smedley, Honey and Your Health (New York: Robert McBride, 1944), 35.
- Aasved, "Alcohol," 414.

Bee Pollen
- Ann Harmon, "Hive Products for Therapeutic Use," American Bee Journal 123, no. 1 (January 1983): 42.
- G. W. Hayes, "Supplemental Feeding of Honey Bees," American Bee Journal 124, no. 1 (January 1984): 35.
- Elkins, Bee Pollen, 22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29.
- Gyorgy Toth, "What's New in Pollen Research," American Bee Journal 123, no. 7 (July 1983): 522-525.
- Gerald Loper and Allen Cohen, "The Caloric Content of Bee-Gathered Pollen," American Bee Journal 122, no. 10 (October 1982): 709.
- Melvyn Werbach and Michael Murray, Botanical Influences on Illness (Tarzana, CA: Third Line Press, 1994), 79, 212-213, 286.

Propolis
- J. Iannuzzi, "Propolis: The Most Mysterious Hive Element," part 1, American Bee Journal 123, no. 8 (August 1983): 573-574, and part 2, American Bee Journal 123, no. 9 (September 1983): 631-633.
- Maung Maung Nyein "The use of Asphalt as a Propolis Substitute," American Bee Journal 123, no. 10 (October 1983): 732.
- Elkins, Bee Pollen, 34, 37, 38.
- Harmon, "Hive Products for Therapeutic Use," 41-42.
- Justin Schmidt, "Apitherapy Meeting Held in the Land of Milk and Honey," American Bee Journal 136, no. 10 (October 1996): 722.
- Galina Kotova, "Apiary Products Are Important in Soviet Medicine," American Bee Journal 121, no. 12 (December 1981): 850.
- V. P. Kivalkina. Propolis: Its Antibacterial and Therapeutic Properties (Russia: Kasan Publishing, 1978). Cited in Elkins, Bee Pollen, 41.
- C. V. Rao, et al., "Effect of caffeic acid esters on carcinogen-induced mutagenicity and human colon adenocarcinoma cell growth," Chemical-Biological Interaction 84, no. 3 (November 16, 1992): 277-290. Quoted in Elkins, Bee Pollen, 42.

Royal Jelly
- Elkins, Bee Pollen, and Royden Brown, Royden Brown's Bee Hive Product Bible (Garden City: Avery Publishing, 1993).
- Harmon, "Hive Products for Therapeutic Use."
- Royden Brown, citing Albert Saenz, "Biology, Biochemistry, and the Therapeutic Effects of Royal Jelly in Human Pathology," Pasteur Institute of Paris, 1984.
- Ibid., citing B. Filipic and M. Likvar, "Clinical Value of Royal Jelly and Propolis Against Viral Infections," University of Sarajevo, n.d., in Bee Hive Product Bible.

Bee Venom
- Harvey Felter and John Uri Lloyd, King's American Dispensatory (Cincinnati: Eclectic Publications, 1895), 225.
- Schmidt, "Apitherapy Meeting Held in the Land of Milk and Honey."
- Kotova, "Apiary Products Are Important in Soviet Medicine."
- Charles Mraz, "Bee Venom for Arthritis-An Update," American Bee Journal 122, no. 2 (February 1982).
- North American Apitherapy Abstracts, American Bee Journal 123, no. 2 (February 1983).
- Anne Robinson and Gard Otis, "Bee Venom: Concerns about Variability," American Bee Journal 136, no. 8 (August 1996).
- James Duke, The Green Pharmacy (New York: Rodale Press, 1997).


Needless to say, the American Bee Journal is used for quite a few citations, as is Rita Elkins, Bee Pollen, Royal Jelly, Propolis, and Honey. I'd be interested to see about reading some of those past issues, if available.

Anywho, if you're more interested, there is the research/you can always just get the book. :)

TheAlchemist
09-16-2011, 11:45 PM
Yogi!
Thank You Thank You Thank You.
I've seen your Sacred Beer book somewhere (?my visit to Sacred Trust?) but didn't get one. I adore references!

beeboy
09-20-2011, 09:59 PM
you caught my interest with this thread, I have been using fresh propolis as chewing gum for years. When i'm working my hives I will scrape a ball about 1/2 inch in diameter off the edges of the frames. Most of the time it tastes a little like Juicy Fruit chewing gum but a lot spicer. It really helps with a sore throat along with 1/3 mixture of raw honey, lemon juice and water.
If you are interested in using bees as a food source how about pulling drone brood out of the capped brood comb and cooking them up? You would not be hurting the hive any by killing the workers and the drones don't have stingers. It would be simple enough, just use large cell foundation to promote drone rearing. There are a lot of beekeepers out there who have brood frames set up for drones to help control Varoa mites. Maybe a local bee keeper wouldn't mind passing some drone brood to you. I wonder what baked drones would taste like, maybe with a dash of garlic powder, salt and olive oil baked at 350 for about 10 minutes. Bet it would beat tater tots by a mile.
I would think that if you had enough hives you could get your protein and fats from the brood and carbohydrates from the pollen and honey. Don't know how diverse the diet would be but you could probably survive on it for a short time. The only thing missing would be vegetables and fruit which with the proper spin could be consitered a product of the hive.
Luck with it

AToE
09-20-2011, 10:49 PM
It's pretty amazing what people can survive off of really, the Inuit ate (and some still eat) a diet consisting of almost entirely raw meat, pretty much nothing else... of course their life expectancy on that diet (about 6000 cal a day too to combat the cold and how much work they do/did) was only about 50-ish, but still, very impressive.

So anyways, I can't imagine a bees and bee product diet being any less nutritious than that!