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View Full Version : braggot, but how to work the malt?



ash
09-20-2011, 01:04 PM
hi,

for my first braggot-ish brew I just bought grains but I have no clue as to how that works :p

anyone haz the manual?

chiguire
09-20-2011, 01:30 PM
Without more detailed information, that is an impossible question to answer.
What kind of Braggot are you looking to make?
High ABV, Low ABV?
How much honey vs malt character are you looking for?
What kind of grains did you buy?
What size is your batch going to be?
Do you have any recipe ideas so far?

Lots of questions...



hi,

for my first braggot-ish brew I just bought grains but I have no clue as to how that works :p

anyone haz the manual?

ash
09-20-2011, 03:31 PM
What kind of Braggot are you looking to make?
Rattatoille, dif. kinds of fruit and dif. kinds of honey + malt (and maybe hops)

High ABV, Low ABV?
wine yeast, so around 14

How much honey vs malt character are you looking for?
I'd like a balance between fruit, honey and bitterness

What kind of grains did you buy?
Weyerm.Cara-red 40 EBC 1kg

What size is your batch going to be?
minimum 15 Liters, max 30

Do you have any recipe ideas
not really, like usual I would just toss everything in a carboy

I'm actually looking into how to work with the grains, the rest should just work like any other mead, no?

kudapucat
09-20-2011, 06:04 PM
Ash.
There was a good grain braggot recipe around. Search for "braggot docio"
When you find the recipe, you'll see how grains are treated and then be able to ask more informed questions.
Alternatively, look up "all grain brewing" or AGB I think it's called in beer circles, this is a similar technique.

AToE
09-20-2011, 07:48 PM
Ash.
There was a good grain braggot recipe around. Search for "braggot docio"
When you find the recipe, you'll see how grains are treated and then be able to ask more informed questions.
Alternatively, look up "all grain brewing" or AGB I think it's called in beer circles, this is a similar technique.

That recipe is in the patrons area I believe, only 25 bucks though! ;)

What you basically have is 1 specialty malt, no base malt. You might want to look into getting some liquid malt extract or dry malt extract (LME and DME) to beef it up a bit, otherwise you'll get very little malt character. 1 kilo of the cara-red is a good amount I think if you use a light malt extract (so the extract isn't adding much colour).

Basically, without investing in all the beer gear, you'll steep the grain in hot water (go around 150 fahrenheit to 170 kinda range), not boiling water, then pour off the water. Then steep it again to make sure you get everything out of the grain you can, and pour it off again (or rack off the grain, whatever works for you).

Then, if you're adding hops you'll do a boil, if not then you don't really need to boil - just mix in the malt extract and your other ingredients and treat basically like a mead from then on.

That's the short version, more detailed info is very easy to find online too.

ash
09-20-2011, 09:34 PM
so I don't need to germinate it first?

Do I boil everything or just the hops?

thx !

AToE
09-20-2011, 10:53 PM
Ha, no, that's called malting and was already done with your grain, then it was roasted! If it's whole you''ll want to grind it up a bit, if not then nothing else needs to be done.

You boil the hops in the liquid that came off the grains (called the sweet wort). Watch out, as boil overs are common and very messy (very hard to clean), a handy trick is to keep a spray bottle full of water handy and keep an eye on it, most boil overs happen right when it first starts to roll, then it calms down. Just spray it any time it's foaming up in a scary way, and that will knock it back down (can't remember who here taught me that one, but thanks!). EDIT: so do NOT boil the grains!

How long you boil the hops, what kinds, adding them at different stages of the boil... that's alchemy all of it's own right there!

caffeine211
09-21-2011, 12:01 AM
a handy trick is to keep a spray bottle full of water handy and keep an eye on it, most boil overs happen right when it first starts to roll, then it calms down. Just spray it any time it's foaming up in a scary way, and that will knock it back down (can't remember who here taught me that one, but thanks!).

I've never heard anyone else use that method but it does work. I first saw it while getting my one and only pedicure. They would spray down the soap bubbles in the foot bath whenever it was about to overflow. Since then I've used it in cooking and a few brewing instances.

ash
09-21-2011, 08:04 AM
ah, cool ! that's what I needed to know.
I'll just boil it for as long as I can be asked :-)

TheAlchemist
09-21-2011, 11:07 AM
...I first saw it while getting my one and only pedicure.

So sorry to hear you've had only one pedicure...they're a treat!

chiguire
09-21-2011, 11:45 AM
AToE has given you some good advice, ash.
However - I really suggest you dig into some beer brewing literature.

How to Brew by Palmer is free online and will provide you with a lot of information that will prove useful if you want to continue to brew with grain.

http://www.howtobrew.com/

You seem to be winging it this time around, and while this is not a bad thing, knowing beer brewing skills will prove to be a good tool in your tool bag.


ah, cool ! that's what I needed to know.
I'll just boil it for as long as I can be asked :-)

commonsenseman
09-21-2011, 12:19 PM
Howtobrew is a great read, I reference it quite often.

I'd also recommend using malt extract for your first time, especially since you're unfamiliar with the brewing process. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, many great beers are made with extract. Since you said you want it balanced, you may not even need any additional "steeping grains", the extract might be enough for this situation. If you do desire a little darker color, you can always add some amber extract, or if you prefer, a little crystal malt (this is a steeping grain, it doesn't have to be mashed). Crystal malt is rated by it's color, for example crystal 60L is 60 Lovibond (the color rating system for beer). Crystal 60L also adds a little body & caramel flavor, which may or may not be what you're looking for.

AToE
09-21-2011, 01:55 PM
I'd agree with that except for that he's (she?) already got 1 kilo of cara-red, might as well use it I figure (being whole it'll last longer of course though). I think some light malt extract, either dry or liquid, and that cara-red could make a great base for a braggot.

And yes, as mentioned above doing some actual detailed reading about the process is a great idea, beer can be a lot more complicated than mead and I found it comforting when I made my first one having a bit more background info.

commonsenseman
09-21-2011, 02:51 PM
I'd agree with that except for that he's (she?) already got 1 kilo of cara-red, might as well use it I figure (being whole it'll last longer of course though). I think some light malt extract, either dry or liquid, and that cara-red could make a great base for a braggot.

And yes, as mentioned above doing some actual detailed reading about the process is a great idea, beer can be a lot more complicated than mead and I found it comforting when I made my first one having a bit more background info.

Oh, right, forgot about that. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe you could just steep the cara red (in 150-160 degree water for 20-30 minutes) without rinsing if you're only concerned with color/flavor/aroma. The only thing you'd miss out on are some of the fermentable sugars. Cara-red does sound like it'd be an excellent addition to a Braggot to give it a little extra maltiness.

ash
09-21-2011, 04:22 PM
thanx for the info !

I'll look into the beer-making but I prefer working with as few as possible steps and / or chemicals. I like to make mead with as much as possible authenticity. Exept for hygene and some modern products like nowadays yeast I like to feel I made it just like vikings and kelts done it hundres of years ago.
My experience is that it just takes some more time to age / clear but has the same tasty result as complicated techniques and use of additives.

ash
09-21-2011, 04:25 PM
he's (she?)
he ;)


Oh, right, forgot about that. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe you could just steep the cara red (in 150-160 degree water for 20-30 minutes) without rinsing if you're only concerned with color/flavor/aroma. The only thing you'd miss out on are some of the fermentable sugars. Cara-red does sound like it'd be an excellent addition to a Braggot to give it a little extra maltiness.


I don't really care about the sugars in the grains because I plan to use honey and a lot of fruits, so I will have no need for the few sugars I could get from them grainies .

AToE
09-21-2011, 04:42 PM
Beer making is a pretty old tradition as well, it's not really an additive driven process, it's just very different from mead or wine in that the sugars have to be converted to fermentable forms, and the way the flavours are created involve many small details in how the ingredients are used.

And it wasn't just celts and vikings, mead was pretty much a world wide drink! They didn't know about yeast of course though, so it was all done by "magic".

ash
09-21-2011, 06:26 PM
I love magic :cool:

wayneb
09-21-2011, 09:53 PM
I enjoy a little glass of magic every evening! In fact, I'm doing so right now.... ;D

AToE
09-21-2011, 10:15 PM
My experience is that it just takes some more time to age / clear but has the same tasty result as complicated techniques and use of additives.

Well, the complex techniques in meadmaking are more to create a cleaner ferment and as such a better product after aging, but I do also generally just let my meads clear on their own (most here do), and age is indeed always a factor.