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huesmann
03-10-2012, 12:15 AM
So I was pondering. If one bottle carbs by adding some fermentable sugar at bottling, that means there's yeast in the mead, or it wouldn't continue to ferment and produce CO2 carbonation, right? Doesn't that mean every bottle that's carbed thusly will have sediment?

TAKeyser
03-10-2012, 12:34 AM
If you are priming it to get the carbonation you'll get some sediment. If you want carbonation without the sediment you could filter it and force carbonate it in a keg and than use a counter-pressure filler (thinking that is what it's called) when bottling.

Chevette Girl
03-10-2012, 01:06 AM
Short answer: yes. Long answer: but there are ways around it: disgorging like the champagne makers do (never tried it, sure I'd just make a mess), or almost-freezing it once it's carb'd and pouring it off the sediment into a chilled bottle also works (this I have done and it works better than you'd think).

skunkboy
03-10-2012, 01:57 AM
Yes, but if your original product is pretty clear you should get a little sediment, and not a lot. Bottle conditioned beer has the same issue.

huesmann
03-10-2012, 10:31 AM
If you are priming it to get the carbonation you'll get some sediment. If you want carbonation without the sediment you could filter it and force carbonate it in a keg and than use a counter-pressure filler (thinking that is what it's called) when bottling.
But that's not really bottle-carbing then, is it?

As I figured, a little sediment. Hopefully the bubbles will mask any sediment suspended in the mead. :)

YogiBearMead726
03-10-2012, 10:50 AM
If you're not planning on serving the mead/beer to any vegans, then you could always bloom some gelatin and add it along with the priming sugar before bottling. I've had good results doing that, since the gelatin helps keep the resulting sediment pretty well compacted on the bottom of the bottle.

chams
03-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Pour carefully, or call it cloudy mead. The yeast is full of vitamins! :-)

TAKeyser
03-10-2012, 11:49 AM
But that's not really bottle-carbing then, is it?

As I figured, a little sediment. Hopefully the bubbles will mask any sediment suspended in the mead. :)

no it's not bottle-carbing.

Most of the sediment will compact at the bottom and one smooth pour into a decanter will leave most of it behind. The do make a funnel for decanting that has a small filter attached that will catch the rest. http://www.amazon.com/Wine-Decanting-Funnel-Filter-Screen/dp/B0013K6JZG

Medsen Fey
03-10-2012, 12:07 PM
There is a way to do it sediment free.

Make a cuvee that is around 11-12% (you can go higher, but the higher you go, the greater chances for failure).

When it is dry, fine/filter to get rid of all the yeast. Sterile filtration or pasteurization will make sure none are left.

Add the appropriate amount of fermentable sugar, and put it in Champagne bottles, and get some plastic champagne stoppers. These stoppers are hollow. Then take one gram of encapsulated yeast (Pro-Restart) - the uvaferm 43, DV10, or whatever version they have available and put it in the hollow stopper. Take a stainless steel faucet screen from a plumbing supply store and force it into the hollow opening trapping all the encapsulated yeast inside the hollow core of the stopper. Put the stopper in and wire it on. Turn the bottle so that the liquid is in contact with the stopper, and wait for the carbonation. Since the yeast are encapsulated in little balls, they don't leak out into the fluid (at least not much).

You can either leave the plastic stopper in, and just open it when you are ready to serve, or you can chill it down ice cold, and replace the stopper with a cork or crown cap if you prefer.

And there you have it - carbonation without sediment.

YogiBearMead726
03-10-2012, 01:49 PM
And if you're feeling adventurous, here (http://http://www.eurovolvox.org/Protocols/PDFs/ImmobilisedYeast2.1_UK_eng.pdf) is a pretty good PDF explaining how to make your own immobilized yeast capsules. :)

Edit: Hmm...the link isn't working...well, here is URL if anyone is interested:

http://www.eurovolvox.org/Protocols/PDFs/ImmobilisedYeast2.1_UK_eng.pdf

TAKeyser
03-10-2012, 02:41 PM
There is a way to do it sediment free.

Make a cuvee that is around 11-12% (you can go higher, but the higher you go, the greater chances for failure).

When it is dry, fine/filter to get rid of all the yeast. Sterile filtration or pasteurization will make sure none are left.

Add the appropriate amount of fermentable sugar, and put it in Champagne bottles, and get some plastic champagne stoppers. These stoppers are hollow. Then take one gram of encapsulated yeast (Pro-Restart) - the uvaferm 43, DV10, or whatever version they have available and put it in the hollow stopper. Take a stainless steel faucet screen from a plumbing supply store and force it into the hollow opening trapping all the encapsulated yeast inside the hollow core of the stopper. Put the stopper in and wire it on. Turn the bottle so that the liquid is in contact with the stopper, and wait for the carbonation. Since the yeast are encapsulated in little balls, they don't leak out into the fluid (at least not much).

You can either leave the plastic stopper in, and just open it when you are ready to serve, or you can chill it down ice cold, and replace the stopper with a cork or crown cap if you prefer.

And there you have it - carbonation without sediment.

Now this is a trick that I have to remember!

Chevette Girl
03-11-2012, 02:19 AM
Now this is a trick that I have to remember!

Me too, that's a good one.

TAKeyser
03-11-2012, 02:26 AM
I have a Peach Melomel a few months away from bottling and I was considering making it a Sparkling Peach (jut sounded Yummy to me), so it may be the perfect one to try this technique.

huesmann
03-11-2012, 10:42 AM
The do make a funnel for decanting that has a small filter attached that will catch the rest. http://www.amazon.com/Wine-Decanting-Funnel-Filter-Screen/dp/B0013K6JZG
I actually already have a similar one.

Chevette Girl
03-11-2012, 06:05 PM
I wonder if you could make yeast-bags (like a teabag?) for bottle-carbing? Maybe use coffee-filter packets with a pinch of yeast? Heh, wonder if anyone's patented anything like that... well, that's another one on the list of experiments to try... because, you know, the list isn't long enough... :)

RachmaelBenApplebaum
03-15-2012, 07:42 PM
I wonder if you could make yeast-bags (like a teabag?) for bottle-carbing? Maybe use coffee-filter packets with a pinch of yeast? Heh, wonder if anyone's patented anything like that... well, that's another one on the list of experiments to try... because, you know, the list isn't long enough... :)

I've read about using dialysis tubing and making little packets, but apparently this process is really slow due to the osmotic transfer through the film (something like a full year to achieve carbonation?) with that kind of time and effort it would be more effective to make a riddling rack and do it the good old fashioned way.

Chevette Girl
03-17-2012, 12:20 AM
I've read about using dialysis tubing and making little packets, but apparently this process is really slow due to the osmotic transfer through the film (something like a full year to achieve carbonation?) with that kind of time and effort it would be more effective to make a riddling rack and do it the good old fashioned way.

I dunno, I think if I were going to try that I'd need to practice on sugar water first, I don't know if I can actually conceive of the potential mess a klutz like me could make trying...

Wolfie
03-17-2012, 08:20 PM
This just so happened to come up in conversation last night, I think this is basically Medsen's version. A buddy of mine said he toured a champagne brewery once and they told him that they would bottle ferment the bottles and store them upside down/cold crash them to make all the sediment fall down the neck onto the cork. then they would freeze the neck of the bottle (with dry ice or liquid nitrogen I'd have to assume) and uncork it and scrape out the ice that has all the yeast and sediment in it. The ice block would keep the bottle from losing pressure...

From the sounds of it they may actually repeat the process more than once for commercial grade clarity.

TAKeyser
03-17-2012, 09:39 PM
This just so happened to come up in conversation last night, I think this is basically Medsen's version. A buddy of mine said he toured a champagne brewery once and they told him that they would bottle ferment the bottles and store them upside down/cold crash them to make all the sediment fall down the neck onto the cork. then they would freeze the neck of the bottle (with dry ice or liquid nitrogen I'd have to assume) and uncork it and scrape out the ice that has all the yeast and sediment in it. The ice block would keep the bottle from losing pressure...

From the sounds of it they may actually repeat the process more than once for commercial grade clarity.

It's called Riddling http://www.winepros.org/wine101/vincyc-riddling.htm or watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MetGp4Q6dG0&feature=related

RachmaelBenApplebaum
03-18-2012, 12:40 AM
Riddling is probably best done outside. All you need is a riddling rack, or failing that buckets or crate you can store your bottle upside down in, preferably a special crown cap opener that open the cap outwards, and buckets with dry ice and pure ethanol to freeze the necks, the pressure pushes out the plug and then you dose it with a sweet must (or not depending on taste) and re-cap, the pressure will still be appreciable after the plug is blown free. Again, do this OUTSIDE unless you like the prospect of high-velocity yeast plugs ricocheting off the walls of your home.

skunkboy
03-19-2012, 06:36 PM
It's called Riddling http://www.winepros.org/wine101/vincyc-riddling.htm or watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MetGp4Q6dG0&feature=related

Riddling? Don't you need a green suit and mask for that? :-)



http://vinroc.deviantart.com/art/Riddle-Me-This-46273085?moodonly=1

fivecats
03-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Riddling? Don't you need a green suit and mask for that? :-)


Only if your name is Mr. E. Nigma :cool:

Medsen Fey
03-23-2012, 06:40 PM
This just so happened to come up in conversation last night, I think this is basically Medsen's version.

Actually what I've described is an alternative to riddling which is time consuming and hard to do in the tropics. With the encapsulated yeast you don't have to wait for months for the yeast to settle on the cap, and you don't have to have to freeze it (with the risk of frostbite).