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Golden Sun God
03-22-2012, 12:02 PM
I just went to a HBS in San Jose and got all my "proper" equipment and was going to make a cyser but all of the recipes I've been able to find have wildly different amounts of honey that are add some say 1 gallon honey for 4 gallons cider/juice, some say 1-2 pounds for 4 gallons. I was just wondering If I use White Labs WLP775 English Cider yeast(approxiamately 14%) about how much honey should I add to get a sweet(bot not cloying) cyser where you can taste both the honey and apple flavors. I'm using orange blossom honey(seemed a better choice than clover or sage). Sorry for the long post and if it's in the wrong section.

BBBF
03-22-2012, 12:41 PM
We would need to know the gravity of the cider to tell you exactly much honey you need to hit 14%. I just started a cyser and I used 4 gallons of apple juice and a little more than a gallon of honey.

brian92fs
03-22-2012, 01:17 PM
Most apple juice I have used is in the 1.050 – 1.054 range. So, using that as an estimate, 8.5 – 9.0 pounds of honey and 4.5 gallon of juice will get to a SG of 1.105 if you use a 5.25 batch size (enough to fill a 5 gallon carboy secondary). I’d run this dry then stabilize and back sweeten with honey. Every 14% tolerance batch I’ve made with the intent of 14% ABV and residual sweetness always seems to go dry and end up in the 14.5% to 15.0% range. So, if you want to avoid something that many end up hotter, I’d shoot for a dry ABV of 13.0 – 14.0% then back sweeten. That would mean targeting for a starting gravity in the 1.098 – 1.105 range.

This approach also gives you some freedom to experiment with residual sweetness levels. Give it a few months and you might like it dry. Or you can take some samples and sweeten to different levels to figure out what you really like.

I've made a few dry cysers and I personally like 13.0%. I get good flavor and aroma, but its not too hot. The 14.0% - 14.5% ABV ones seem a lot harsher and could take 1+ years to age out. I know you asked about a recipe with more residual sweetness, but thought I'd add this for perspective.

akueck
03-22-2012, 01:21 PM
I'll second the lower alcohol cyser idea. I've had them at 12% and at 17%, and a few places in between. The lower end of the range tends to taste more like apples, but you've still added a lot of honey to get that mead flavor too. A little residual sugar can be added at the end and will generally boost both the apple and honey flavors.

brian92fs
03-22-2012, 01:44 PM
The lower end of the range tends to taste more like apples, but you've still added a lot of honey to get that mead flavor too.

That apple aroma is my favorite part. I made a dry 13.% ABV cyser in October. Just tasted it last night to see how its coming along. The smell of apples on it is great! Not harsh at all, and the flavors are starting to integrate but it still is a little flat tasting. Hopefully the next six months will bring more improvements.

Wolfie
03-22-2012, 01:57 PM
on another note Hightest (http://home.comcast.net/~mzapx1/) made a fantastic mead calculator that has proven indispensable in my recipe construction/deconstruction. It is an excel file, so if you don't have the program it may not help you...

Aside from having some standard measurements for cider, there are blank cells you can fill if your cider (or whatever juice) is some other gravity.

After that how much honey is how much alcohol or residual sweetness you want...

good luck

/wolfie

brian92fs
03-22-2012, 02:48 PM
on another note Hightest (http://home.comcast.net/~mzapx1/) made a fantastic mead calculator that has proven indispensable in my recipe construction/deconstruction. It is an excel file, so if you don't have the program it may not help you...


I've been developing my own spreadsheet for recipe planning, YANC/SNA calcs and recording batch progress. Its a never-ending work in progress.

I can share it with anyone who's interested. Just PM me an email address. Word of caution: I'm a CPA and System Analyst (IT/numbers guy)... so beware. It's not for the faint of heart ;D

wayneb
03-22-2012, 04:50 PM
I'd LOVE to test it out! ;) Check your PMs in a minute....

Riverat
03-22-2012, 05:34 PM
I have a thong fopr excel myself....pm coming

HunnyBunz
03-22-2012, 05:46 PM
I have a thong fopr excel myself....pm coming
What's a "thong fopr"?

Sounds like it could be painful! :D

brian92fs
03-22-2012, 05:47 PM
Original Poster: Sorry if I high jacked your thread.

Riverat
03-22-2012, 05:48 PM
That would be "Thing For" as typed by a really poor typest!!
I pretty much live in excel at work

chams
03-22-2012, 06:31 PM
on another note Hightest (http://home.comcast.net/~mzapx1/) made a fantastic mead calculator that has proven indispensable in my recipe construction/deconstruction. It is an excel file, so if you don't have the program it may not help you...

Aside from having some standard measurements for cider, there are blank cells you can fill if your cider (or whatever juice) is some other gravity.

After that how much honey is how much alcohol or residual sweetness you want...

good luck

/wolfie


For anyone who doesn't own ms excel there are several open source office apps:
Open office (http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html) or Libre Office (http://www.libreoffice.org/)

Chevette Girl
03-23-2012, 12:12 AM
When I made my cyser last year (juice pretty consistent at 1.050) I just added honey to get to my target SG (I arbitrarily chose 1.105 because I have a habit of making everything too darn potent and was trying to tone down a little) for an alcohol content around 14%. I was surprised at how little honey it seemed to take. I'll post tasting notes on my brewlog (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18584)next time I get to the back of the brewing shelf to check on it...

BBBF
03-23-2012, 09:25 AM
I was surprised at how little honey it seemed to take.


Yeah, that's one of the nice thing about making cysers. I'm sure braggots will are the same.

TAKeyser
03-23-2012, 09:33 AM
Yeah, that's one of the nice thing about making cysers. I'm sure braggots will are the same.

That's one of the great things about Braggots, much less expensive to make and you can usually drink them much sooner. And they taste great!

Chevette Girl
03-23-2012, 11:07 AM
Hydromels have their place too.

Sadie Lady
03-23-2012, 11:24 AM
That's one of the great things about Braggots, much less expensive to make and you can usually drink them much sooner. And they taste great!

I didn't know what a braggot was till now, just looked it up. When I placed my last order for mead supplies, I ordered a very small bag of dried malt extract to rehydrate some liq yeast in, they made a mistake and sent me 3 pounds. Been wondering what the heck I was going to do with all of it.

Will search around here for a recipe.

The cyser I have going, is one of my favorite things right now and I don't like apples, but really like this.

Golden Sun God
03-23-2012, 11:36 AM
I was wondering should I add nutrient to my cyser? I know about staggering the nutrient but don't know if it will get enough nutrients from the cider/juice or if I should add some.

Sadie Lady
03-23-2012, 11:53 AM
I was wondering should I add nutrient to my cyser? I know about staggering the nutrient but don't know if it will get enough nutrients from the cider/juice or if I should add some.

The 4 Week Quick Cyser recipe just has some nutrient added ad the beginning. I'm doing one that is a take off of that and yes I did an SNA with it. It's turning out good so far.

brian92fs
03-23-2012, 11:55 AM
I was wondering should I add nutrient to my cyser? I know about staggering the nutrient but don't know if it will get enough nutrients from the cider/juice or if I should add some.

My understanding is that apple juice is very low in YANC. I'd suggest that you need to add nutrients.

HunnyBunz
03-23-2012, 02:54 PM
I didn't know what a braggot was till now, just looked it up. When I placed my last order for mead supplies, I ordered a very small bag of dried malt extract to rehydrate some liq yeast in, they made a mistake and sent me 3 pounds. Been wondering what the heck I was going to do with all of it.

Will search around here for a recipe.

The cyser I have going, is one of my favorite things right now and I don't like apples, but really like this.

My first batch besides a JAO was a braggot that was really easy and turned out really well despite lots of mistakes. I don't know how to create a link to a thread but the recipe can be found under the post "Newbee making a braggot."

I accidentally added too much honey, but if I were to make it again I would do the same thing because I think it turned out with a better honey flavor than if I had stuck to the original recipe.