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jpog
04-06-2012, 02:14 PM
Just curious how much DME each of you use per 1 gallon. Do you use 1/2 a pound or 1 lb substitued for a 1lb of honey?

skunkboy
04-06-2012, 02:28 PM
Just curious how much DME each of you use per 1 gallon. Do you use 1/2 a pound or 1 lb substitued for a 1lb of honey?

For the one braggot that I did which was not a later blend of Scotch Ale with a wildflower mead, I used something like 1 lb of DME and 1 lb of honey per gallon.

hepcat
04-06-2012, 03:19 PM
I want to try a braggot some time.

What's DME?

skunkboy
04-06-2012, 04:09 PM
I want to try a braggot some time.

What's DME?

Dried Malt Extract, for those of us who for whatever reason don't mash our base grains for beer/braggot. This is also Liquid Malt Extract, sort like honey, but made from grain.

TAKeyser
04-06-2012, 08:35 PM
For the one braggot that I did which was not a later blend of Scotch Ale with a wildflower mead, I used something like 1 lb of DME and 1 lb of honey per gallon.

That's usually the ratio that I use, if I'm using extract. It'll give you about 60% of your fermentables from the Honey.

A word about Extract...Only add about 1/3 of it at the beginning of your boil (and expect it to foam and expand) and add the rest in the last 10-15 minutes of the boil (again expect foam and expansion). This will prevent the DME for darkening due to the heat of the boil, also boil as much of the water as you can as this will also prevent the darkening of the DME.

khildahl
04-06-2012, 09:20 PM
A word about Extract...Only add about 1/3 of it at the beginning of your boil (and expect it to foam and expand) and add the rest in the last 10-15 minutes of the boil (again expect foam and expansion). This will prevent the DME for darkening due to the heat of the boil, also boil as much of the water as you can as this will also prevent the darkening of the DME.

Good advice. This should also help with hops utilization (assuming they're being included).

TAKeyser
04-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Good advice. This should also help with hops utilization (assuming they're being included).

I'll usually add at least a little bit of Hops in my Braggots

jpog
04-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Great advice TAKeyser.

So do you typically boil DME for an hour like hops. So add 1/3 of DME at the beginning of the hour with say some hops and then at the 45 min. mark at the last 2/3 with some more hops.

TAKeyser
04-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Great advice TAKeyser.

So do you typically boil DME for an hour like hops. So add 1/3 of DME at the beginning of the hour with say some hops and then at the 45 min. mark at the last 2/3 with some more hops.

Yeah that's how it is usually done. The different timeline for hops are for extracting the goodness out of them. Bittering hops are usually an hour long (or more) boil, flavor extraction is usually in the 10-15 minute mark and aroma is usually 5 minutes or less (a lot of people will add the aroma hops as they turn off the heat, but before they start really trying to cool the wort). Dry Hopping will add aroma and a little flavor, but will not increase the bitterness at all.

Oh, and add the first 1/3 of the DME before you put the pot on the stove, if you try to add it once the water starts to boil the steam clumps it all up and it is a pain in the ass.

jpog
04-09-2012, 01:12 PM
Great pointer about when to add the DME, however, won't that mean though that the last 2/3 will clump bad? Do you just whisk it when makeing a gravy?

TAKeyser
04-09-2012, 03:30 PM
Great pointer about when to add the DME, however, won't that mean though that the last 2/3 will clump bad? Do you just whisk it when makeing a gravy?

Yeah I should have mentioned that I usually pull out a little bit of the wort and mix the rest of the DME in it and pour it back in. It still clumps but not as bad (it seems like the steam is what makes it real bad) and then yeah I just wisk the crap out of it.

Chevette Girl
04-09-2012, 05:18 PM
Also interested in braggots, I was wondering, when you boil the DME you mentioned that it darkens it if you boil the full time, what effect does this have on the flavour?

TAKeyser
04-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Also interested in braggots, I was wondering, when you boil the DME you mentioned that it darkens it if you boil the full time, what effect does this have on the flavour?

I never noticed a real difference in the taste, just the color which isn't so much of a big deal in a Braggot unless you are trying to replicate a beer style (ie you'd want a Stout Braggot to be dark).

skunkboy
04-09-2012, 08:28 PM
If you do like a 90 minute boil you can start to pick up some caramelization or similar flavors. Can also start to make some of the sugar unfermentable again.

TAKeyser
04-09-2012, 08:31 PM
If you do like a 90 minute boil you can start to pick up some caramelization or similar flavors. Can also start to make some of the sugar unfermentable again.

generally no reason to boil that long though. Well I guess you could do a DFH 90 Minute IPA Braggot

mccann51
04-09-2012, 09:14 PM
generally no reason to boil that long though. Well I guess you could do a DFH 90 Minute IPA Braggot

A boil this long can be used for Maillard reactions and melanoidin production, ie the darkening effect. This will give the finished product a more malty character.

TAKeyser
04-09-2012, 09:23 PM
A boil this long can be used for Maillard reactions and melanoidin production, ie the darkening effect. This will give the finished product a more malty character.

I've done this with all-grain brewing, but haven't seen the same outcome when I've used DME

wayneb
04-10-2012, 03:16 PM
If you actually boil a DME based wort for an hour and a half or longer, you will see some darkening.

The effect is even more pronounced if you do a partial boil, as in dissolving your DME in just a gallon or so of water and boiling the resulting thin syrup. Maillard reactions are accelerated at higher temperatures, and at typical concentrations of DME to water for a beer wort (SG 1.060 or less), the temperature during the boil doesn't get much hotter than if you were boiling plain water. At significantly higher SGs, the wort will heat up to much higher temperatures before sustaining a boil, which will darken the sugars more rapidly.

TAKeyser
04-10-2012, 03:21 PM
If you actually boil a DME based wort for an hour and a half or longer, you will see some darkening.

The effect is even more pronounced if you do a partial boil, as in dissolving your DME in just a gallon or so of water and boiling the resulting thin syrup. Maillard reactions are accelerated at higher temperatures, and at typical concentrations of DME to water for a beer wort (SG 1.060 or less), the temperature during the boil doesn't get much hotter than if you were boiling plain water. At significantly higher SGs, the wort will heat up to much higher temperatures before sustaining a boil, which will darken the sugars more rapidly.

Yeah I tend not to boil DME longer than my hop addition, I tend to do a (close to) full volume boil and I practice the 1/3 DME at the beginning of the boil and adding the last 2/3 with 15 minutes left to reduce the darkening affects so that probably explains why I've never experienced it when I've used DME.

skunkboy
04-10-2012, 07:29 PM
If you actually boil a DME based wort for an hour and a half or longer, you will see some darkening.

Which is exactly what I do with most of my wee heavy scotch ales. Boil all of the DME for about 80 minutes in about two gallons of water. Seems to work out nicely. The only odd score sheets I've ever had for one of these was at the latest WEB, and it was suggested that I had made a Brown Porter instead of a scotch ale. ???

hepcat
04-16-2012, 08:32 PM
Yeah I tend not to boil DME longer than my hop addition, I tend to do a (close to) full volume boil and I practice the 1/3 DME at the beginning of the boil and adding the last 2/3 with 15 minutes left to reduce the darkening affects so that probably explains why I've never experienced it when I've used DME.

So TAKeyser, for a 3 gallon batch of basic braggot, would you use about 2 gallons water for your boil? And before that, do you heat the 10L crystal malt for about 20 minutes, remove it, then use that water for the boil, add in 1/3 the dme and about .5oz Cascade hop pellets, boil for about an hour, adding in the other 2/3 dme about 15 min remaining boil, and, add in Irish Moss about 10 minutes boil time remaining, then cool, then add in honey then pitch the yeast and put under airlock.

Is that about right?

TAKeyser
04-16-2012, 08:49 PM
So TAKeyser, for a 3 gallon batch of basic braggot, would you use about 2 gallons water for your boil? And before that, do you heat the 10L crystal malt for about 20 minutes, remove it, then use that water for the boil, add in 1/3 the dme and about .5oz Cascade hop pellets, boil for about an hour, adding in the other 2/3 dme about 15 min remaining boil, and, add in Irish Moss about 10 minutes boil time remaining, then cool, then add in honey then pitch the yeast and put under airlock.

Is that about right?

For what I'm getting from what you just posted I would think your recipe looks something like this.

3 lbs DME
3 lbs Honey
? oz 10 L Crystal Malt
.5 oz Cascade Hops (pellet) for bittering
1/4 tsp Irish Malt
Yeast

Step 1. Heat 2 liters water to 158 degrees add Crystal Malt and steep for 30 minutes maintaining a temp of 150-158
Step 2. Boil 1 1/2 Gallons Water (I'd usually turn this water on while the Crystal was steeping to save some time). When it reaches a boil add the steeping liquid, 1/3 of the DME and your bittering Hops
Step 3. with 15 minutes left in boil add remaining DME and Irish Moss
Step 4. Cool your liquid and add Honey when ready
Step 5. Pour in your Carboy, top off to 3 gallons and Pitch your yeast.

If you want to add some Flavoring Hops throw them in when you add the Irish Moss and Remaining DME. Aroma Hops can be added when you take off the heat.

hepcat
04-16-2012, 09:17 PM
For what I'm getting from what you just posted I would think your recipe looks something like this.

3 lbs DME
3 lbs Honey
? oz 10 L Crystal Malt
.5 oz Cascade Hops (pellet) for bittering
1/4 tsp Irish Malt
Yeast

Step 1. Heat 2 liters water to 158 degrees add Crystal Malt and steep for 30 minutes maintaining a temp of 150-158
Step 2. Boil 1 1/2 Gallons Water (I'd usually turn this water on while the Crystal was steeping to save some time). When it reaches a boil add the steeping liquid, 1/3 of the DME and your bittering Hops
Step 3. with 15 minutes left in boil add remaining DME and Irish Moss
Step 4. Cool your liquid and add Honey when ready
Step 5. Pour in your Carboy, top off to 3 gallons and Pitch your yeast.

If you want to add some Flavoring Hops throw them in when you add the Irish Moss and Remaining DME. Aroma Hops can be added when you take off the heat.

Excellent TAKeyser!! Thanks so much! Wanted a general flow of what to do. Thanks again.

And about 10 oz 10L Crystal Malt. Does that sound about right for 3 gallon batch?

And another question: If you're using 2L water to heat the Crystal Malt and then 1 1/2 gallons for the boil, then adding 3 1lbs honey, you'll end up with alot more than 3 gallons.....maybe about 3.5 gallons? And that's fine, I guess, just wondering about abv...

TAKeyser
04-16-2012, 09:34 PM
And about 10 oz 10L Crystal Malt. Does that sound about right for 3 gallon batch?

What are you trying to get out of the Crystal? 10 oz will only bump your gravity about .05, but you'll get some mouthfeel and a little color with it.


And another question: If you're using 2L water to heat the Crystal Malt and then 1 1/2 gallons for the boil, then adding 3 1lbs honey, you'll end up with alot more than 3 gallons.....maybe about 3.5 gallons? And that's fine, I guess, just wondering about abv...

2 Liters for the steep added to the 1 1/2 gallons is only 2 gallons and you'll lose some of it as it boils. Adding the 3 lbs of honey will maybe bring it up to 2 1/2 gallons so you'll still need to top it off.

And I suggest using an Ale Yeast as opposed to a wine yeast. This recipe will come it at around 9%abv

hepcat
04-16-2012, 09:42 PM
Ooops yes that's only ~2 gallons for the steep and the boil. Thanks again TAKeyser. And yes I'll use an ale yeast for sure.

TAKeyser
04-16-2012, 09:50 PM
Good Luck with your Braggot :D

jpog
04-17-2012, 02:39 PM
If you want a little more then 9%ABV what other yeast might you use besides an Ale yeast?

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 02:42 PM
If you want a little more then 9%ABV what other yeast might you use besides an Ale yeast?

You can use a wine yeast plus many Ale Yeast will go up higher than that if you give them fermental sugars to eat the recipe as written will only go to the 9% mark, so if you increase the honey and DME a bit it will increase the alcohol. I've seen braggots in the 15-16%ABV range. I just feel that they start to taste out of balance when they start getting up that high.

jpog
04-17-2012, 04:26 PM
Thank you as always.

hepcat
04-17-2012, 09:37 PM
So I was thinking of starting a
3.5 gallon braggot batch
with:
5 lbs honey, probably orange blossom
5 lbs DME
1 lbs 10L Crystal Malt
3/4oz Cascade Hop Pellets
1/2oz flavoring hop/pellets
1/4t Irish Moss
~5g of an ale yeast

Mead Calculator says OG would be 1.051. And a potential ABV of 7.04%.

Does the DME affect the gravity much? Raise it?

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 09:56 PM
So I was thinking of starting a
3.5 gallon braggot batch
with:
5 lbs honey, probably orange blossom
5 lbs DME
1 lbs 10L Crystal Malt
3/4oz Cascade Hop Pellets
1/2oz flavoring hop/pellets
1/4t Irish Moss
~5g of an ale yeast

Mead Calculator says OG would be 1.051. And a potential ABV of 7.04%.

Does the DME affect the gravity much? Raise it?

You should have about a 1.120 starting gravity with the DME and Crystal added. You should end with a final Gravity of roughly 1.025-1.030 since there is unfermentables in the DME and Crystal, so you'll end up with something around 12%abv

hepcat
04-17-2012, 10:04 PM
12% ABV sounds good to me. :cool:

Is 1.120 a high starting gravity for a braggot?

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 10:11 PM
12% ABV sounds good to me. :cool:

Is 1.120 a high starting gravity for a braggot?

Higher than I normally make them, but within reason. Usually when I make one with a gravity in that range I will pitch the Ale yeast and let that get going for a couple days and when I get near the 1/2 sugar break I'll than add another couple grams of a wine yeast such as DV10 just to insure I don't finish with too high a final Gravity.