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TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 12:11 AM
OK, so a little background...I went back to college for another degree and I'm about half way done, I have a Current Issues in Policing course (yeah it sucks) and am having a little difficulty on an Ethics assignment. We have to answer a series of questions that appear on Oral Boards for promotions and stuff and I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into the question. It's the word "SHOULD" and "WOULD" that's giving me problems. Because "SHOULD" implies I know the policy of the particular Department and without knowing the policies in my mind I can not properly answer the question. Below are 5 of the 20 questions, so am I reading to much into the question (oh yeah the assignment is due in like 18 hours lol)


1. This if your first week on the job as a newly sworn police officer. You performed well in all of your classes at the Academy. You were taught professional ethics there. You found the scenarios interesting, and you made a promise to yourself that you would never accept “freebies” or act in a manner unbecoming to the profession. On this day, you and two senior officers clear a lunch break with the dispatcher. You enjoy a pleasant lunch: a club sandwich. After the meal, your fellow officers get up to leave and you reach for your wallet. One officer asks, “What are you doing?” You respond, “I am paying for my lunch.” He says, “Kid, it’s on the house. That’s why we eat here.” You respond, “At the academy, we were taught accepting discounted or free meals in unethical.” Both officers laugh and say, “Kid, forget the academy. This is the real world.” What should you do?

2. You and your partner are dispatched to a robbery call. The dispatcher describes the suspect as a white male juvenile, approximately 15-17 years of age, wearing a black T-shirt, blue jeans, and tennis shoes. A few blocks east of the scene, your partner sees someone who fits the suspect’s description. Your partner exits the patrol car and shouts, “Police! Stop!” The juvenile starts running, and your partner runs after him. Moments later, your partner fires his weapon, shooting the juvenile in the back. You call EMS. They respond and transport the juvenile to the hospital. Meanwhile, your partner takes you aside and says, “I need you to back me. You gotta help me. No matter who asks, tell them it looked like the kid was about to draw a weapon.” (The truth is, the juvenile did not have a weapon.) Later that day, Officer Thomas from Internal Affairs asks you to tell him what happened. What should you do?

5. You are on duty with your FTO and are dispatched to a park on possible drug dealing. You get out of your car and walk to an area in the park with benches and tables. You see a rock of crack cocaine on the table. Also in the park you spot a known drug dealer. Your FTO says, “This guy probably left the rock. Let’s arrest him and use this rock as evidence.” Would you support the FTO?

8. It is Christmas time, and the citizens in your patrol neighborhood are feeling festive and joyful. Jerry, the owner of Big Jerry’s Grill, a well-known diner your frequently eat at, is having a holiday party tonight. Your sergeant tells you to drop by to make sure things are running smoothly. When Jerry sees you, he says, “You know, I really appreciate the work you do. Happy Holidays!” He hands you a crisp $100 dollar bill. What would you do?

10. While on routine patrol, you observe a driver weaving in and out of three lanes of traffic. You notify the dispatcher that you are going to stop the vehicle. When you approach the passenger side of the vehicle, you are surprised to see the driver: your brother-in-law, Rick. Rick’s eyes are bloodshot, his speech is slurred, and his breath smells of an unknown alcoholic beverage. When he sees you, he says, “Wow, man, am I glad to see you, and not some other cop.” What would you do?

aczdreign
04-17-2012, 12:47 AM
I absolutely think you're reading too much into it...

The questions state the answers within themselves:

"You were told that discounted lunches are unethical, what should you do?"
Common sense tells me to write "don't take the meal."

However, I've been told (in classes required of my by the state in the past for contraband posession) that I'm a sociopath and that I have a knack for knowing and telling people what they want to hear, so I'm not saying that I wouldn't take the sandwich (club sandwiches are awesome), I'm just saying that it seems that they want you to TELL them that you wouldnt.

After all, it IS the real world, kid. ;)


EDIT: What the hell, in the interest of being unethical, here are my answers in the form of a cheat sheet, followed by what I would actually do in the situation:
1. don't take the sandwich (take the sandwich)
2. tell your superior exactly what happened (tell your superior exactly what happened)
5. Do not plant evidence (do not plant evidence)
8. Turn down the tip (TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!!)
10. Arrest your relative. (tough one, it would depend on the person)

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:03 AM
I was cruising on the homework until the question of confiscating beer from minors came up. I wanted more info, was it domestic light swill or was it a nice tasty import or microbrew. And then the whole "should" and "would" entered my head. OK I "should" confiscate and dump it out, but if it is something tasty it could end up in my trunk and just be disposed in a much better way.

Oh yeah and you had to explain why you "should" or "would" have done it. For example my answer for the drunk relative was

10. I would take my brother-in-law into custody. I’m sure that officers give people second chances, but you cannot do that for family because of how it would look should the information get it. The public won’t even realize that people get pulled over and a family member or friend gets called to pick them up with no actual charges against them, they will just see that a cop lets his family off.

What really sucks is to me this class doesn't even apply to my major, but somehow the college says it does so I have to take it.

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 01:37 AM
There's a cop local to my in-laws who has ticketed at least two members of his own immediate and extended family for exceeding the speed limit by 5km/h...

And I think it it was my brother in-law, I would have to take him in, if he's weaving all over and I reported pulling someone over for driving erratically, and then the same car Ireported (or the dashboard cam) gets into an accident after you let him off, it's my butt, not to mention the guilt if he were to hurt someone (or himself) afterwards. Even though my bro-in-law is a truck driver by trade and would probably get canned. Fortunately he also knows better than to drive after he's been drinking...

And t is pretty obvious what answers they want you to write... I'd definitely give them back their own answers when they say "should". The ones that say "would" are probably a little more open to interpretation... although they probably want to hear something like, "Aw, come on Jerry, you know I can't accept that, it looks bad! Why don't you stuff that in the Sally Ann kettle out there?"

on a side note, at the university I graduated from, a few years after I was done, a bunch of students were booted out for cheating/plagiarism... in the engineering ethics class... <facepalm>

ChadK
04-17-2012, 02:33 AM
OK, so a little background...I went back to college for another degree and I'm about half way done, I have a Current Issues in Policing course (yeah it sucks) and am having a little difficulty on an Ethics assignment. We have to answer a series of questions that appear on Oral Boards for promotions and stuff and I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into the question. It's the word "SHOULD" and "WOULD" that's giving me problems. Because "SHOULD" implies I know the policy of the particular Department and without knowing the policies in my mind I can not properly answer the question. Below are 5 of the 20 questions, so am I reading to much into the question (oh yeah the assignment is due in like 18 hours lol)

1. This if your first week on the job as a newly sworn police officer. You performed well in all of your classes at the Academy. You were taught professional ethics there. You found the scenarios interesting, and you made a promise to yourself that you would never accept “freebies” or act in a manner unbecoming to the profession. On this day, you and two senior officers clear a lunch break with the dispatcher. You enjoy a pleasant lunch: a club sandwich. After the meal, your fellow officers get up to leave and you reach for your wallet. One officer asks, “What are you doing?” You respond, “I am paying for my lunch.” He says, “Kid, it’s on the house. That’s why we eat here.” You respond, “At the academy, we were taught accepting discounted or free meals in unethical.” Both officers laugh and say, “Kid, forget the academy. This is the real world.” What should you do?

"That may be, but I don't feel comfortable with that." And pay for yours. It won't endear your to the senior officers, but it is the right thing to do. Or alternatively, I know guys who, when a place insists on comping their food, they just leave a tip equivalent to what they woulda paid.

2. You and your partner are dispatched to a robbery call. The dispatcher describes the suspect as a white male juvenile, approximately 15-17 years of age, wearing a black T-shirt, blue jeans, and tennis shoes. A few blocks east of the scene, your partner sees someone who fits the suspect’s description. Your partner exits the patrol car and shouts, “Police! Stop!” The juvenile starts running, and your partner runs after him. Moments later, your partner fires his weapon, shooting the juvenile in the back. You call EMS. They respond and transport the juvenile to the hospital. Meanwhile, your partner takes you aside and says, “I need you to back me. You gotta help me. No matter who asks, tell them it looked like the kid was about to draw a weapon.” (The truth is, the juvenile did not have a weapon.) Later that day, Officer Thomas from Internal Affairs asks you to tell him what happened. What should you do?

This is IA. your job isn't worth it. Especially if your report reflects the absence of a gun. It was not fair of your partner to put you in the position. He messed up, but a lot of screw ups can be dealt with as long as you are honest, but one lie and your career is done.

5. You are on duty with your FTO and are dispatched to a park on possible drug dealing. You get out of your car and walk to an area in the park with benches and tables. You see a rock of crack cocaine on the table. Also in the park you spot a known drug dealer. Your FTO says, “This guy probably left the rock. Let’s arrest him and use this rock as evidence.” Would you support the FTO?

I would express reservations because the crack was not found in his posession and it would probably not stand in court. (see the bit about being honest above) perhaps I'd suggest leaving the rock and watching to see what happens. If the FTO insists, and he isn't planning on fabricating things, I would have to go along as you don't want to leave your partner out to dry and just make sure to document everything in my report.

8. It is Christmas time, and the citizens in your patrol neighborhood are feeling festive and joyful. Jerry, the owner of Big Jerry’s Grill, a well-known diner your frequently eat at, is having a holiday party tonight. Your sergeant tells you to drop by to make sure things are running smoothly. When Jerry sees you, he says, “You know, I really appreciate the work you do. Happy Holidays!” He hands you a crisp $100 dollar bill. What would you do?

Politely decline. explain the agencies policy on gifts. Perhaps suggest he buy a round for the house in your honor.

10. While on routine patrol, you observe a driver weaving in and out of three lanes of traffic. You notify the dispatcher that you are going to stop the vehicle. When you approach the passenger side of the vehicle, you are surprised to see the driver: your brother-in-law, Rick. Rick’s eyes are bloodshot, his speech is slurred, and his breath smells of an unknown alcoholic beverage. When he sees you, he says, “Wow, man, am I glad to see you, and not some other cop.” What would you do?

Well, you do have discretion here: you could legally get him a ride. But the point is consistency. If you arrest every drunk driver you pull over, you'd better arrest him. But if you occasionally make exceptions depending on the totality of the circumstances, you could make an exception here. Frankly, with a greeting like that, I'd be inclined to arrest him, just cause he's assuming he can get away with it cause of who I am.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 09:43 AM
I'm down to the last couple questions on the assignment and the ones not yet completed all seem to be the ones where what I would do probably isn't what I should do lol.

Here is how I answered the questions I used as the examples.

1. This if your first week on the job as a newly sworn police officer. You performed well in all of your classes at the Academy. You were taught professional ethics there. You found the scenarios interesting, and you made a promise to yourself that you would never accept “freebies” or act in a manner unbecoming to the profession. On this day, you and two senior officers clear a lunch break with the dispatcher. You enjoy a pleasant lunch: a club sandwich. After the meal, your fellow officers get up to leave and you reach for your wallet. One officer asks, “What are you doing?” You respond, “I am paying for my lunch.” He says, “Kid, it’s on the house. That’s why we eat here.” You respond, “At the academy, we were taught accepting discounted or free meals in unethical.” Both officers laugh and say, “Kid, forget the academy. This is the real world.” What should you do?

I would leave money for my meal and a tip on the table. I know that I paid for my portion of the meal; if the old timers still wanted to say something to me I could always say something about the waitress doing her job so she deserved a tip. No reason for them to know that I left money for both the food and the tip.

2. You and your partner are dispatched to a robbery call. The dispatcher describes the suspect as a white male juvenile, approximately 15-17 years of age, wearing a black T-shirt, blue jeans, and tennis shoes. A few blocks east of the scene, your partner sees someone who fits the suspect’s description. Your partner exits the patrol car and shouts, “Police! Stop!” The juvenile starts running, and your partner runs after him. Moments later, your partner fires his weapon, shooting the juvenile in the back. You call EMS. They respond and transport the juvenile to the hospital. Meanwhile, your partner takes you aside and says, “I need you to back me. You gotta help me. No matter who asks, tell them it looked like the kid was about to draw a weapon.” (The truth is, the juvenile did not have a weapon.) Later that day, Officer Thomas from Internal Affairs asks you to tell him what happened. What should you do?

I would tell Officer Thomas the truth, my partner ran after the fleeing suspect and that I was not at the scene of the shooting so I do not know what actually occurred prior to the shooting.

5. You are on duty with your FTO and are dispatched to a park on possible drug dealing. You get out of your car and walk to an area in the park with benches and tables. You see a rock of crack cocaine on the table. Also in the park you spot a known drug dealer. Your FTO says, “This guy probably left the rock. Let’s arrest him and use this rock as evidence.” Would you support the FTO?

I would not support my FTO about the arrest. Anyone could have left the evidence on the table and even though we see a known dealer at the park there is no way to link the drugs to that individual.

8. It is Christmas time, and the citizens in your patrol neighborhood are feeling festive and joyful. Jerry, the owner of Big Jerry’s Grill, a well-known diner your frequently eat at, is having a holiday party tonight. Your sergeant tells you to drop by to make sure things are running smoothly. When Jerry sees you, he says, “You know, I really appreciate the work you do. Happy Holidays!” He hands you a crisp $100 dollar bill. What would you do?

I would thank Jerry for the offer, but sadly decline though I do appreciate the gift and explain that I’m just doing my job and cannot accept the gift. If I accepted the gift it may look inappropriate if there was ever a case involving Big Jerry’s Grill.

10. While on routine patrol, you observe a driver weaving in and out of three lanes of traffic. You notify the dispatcher that you are going to stop the vehicle. When you approach the passenger side of the vehicle, you are surprised to see the driver: your brother-in-law, Rick. Rick’s eyes are bloodshot, his speech is slurred, and his breath smells of an unknown alcoholic beverage. When he sees you, he says, “Wow, man, am I glad to see you, and not some other cop.” What would you do?

10. I would take my brother-in-law into custody. I’m sure that officers give people second chances, but you cannot do that for family because of how it would look should the information get it. The public won’t even realize that people get pulled over and a family member or friend gets called to pick them up with no actual charges against them, they will just see that a cop lets his family off.

Khan
04-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Its honestly not that tough... when you are faced with ethical choices, in the real world, you would act according to your own set guidelines and rules for a given situation. In the role of a police officer, you have those guidelines set for you by the "powers that be", you are given the answers by the policies. you are expected to be honest, trustworthy, and generally honourable (in the traditional way a boy-scout is expected to act). And if you have some problems with turning in a fellow officer by way of telling the truth as you see it, or arresting a drunk driver (regardless of his/her relationship to you)... then just think of it this way: "what is the best answer that won't get me in trouble if there was a further, more thorough investigation"?... or: "what if this a test of my morality, and I can get fired if I do something contrary to what I am taught"?

just my 2 cents

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 12:21 PM
In the role of a police officer, you have those guidelines set for you by the "powers that be", you are given the answers by the policies.

See but that implies that I know the policy of the particular police force. This is a college class so we don't have the policies in front of us to be able to answer what I "should" do.

For example, question #9 and my answer...
9. During routine patrol with your colleague, Officer, Ward, you observe a car traveling 40mph (10 over the posted speed limit). Officer Ward pulls over the car. The driver, a 16-year-old female, produces her driver’s license and registration. You hear Officer Ward say, “If you meet me after work, I won’t write you a ticket. “ No citation is written and you do not know if your partner met the juvenile or not. The next day, the driver and her mother meet with your captain, and they file a complaint against Officer Ward for “inappropriate conduct.” The captain asks you what happened. What would you do?

I would explain to the Captain exactly what I heard.

Now if the question asked what I SHOULD DO, I'm sure the policy states that I should report the incident as soon as it occurred. I wouldn't lie if I was directly asked the question, but I also don't think I'd turn my partner in even though I'm sure that is what the policy says I SHOULD DO.

Khan
04-17-2012, 12:44 PM
I see your point. In this case, the question assumes that you didn't report the incident as you probably should have. Now you have to decide whether to confirm or deny that you heard what happened during the incident in question.
Quick postulation on policies: assuming that we all hold police to a certain standard, it is reasonable that we can extrapolate a basic set of "codes of conduct" that just about any officer would be expected to follow. We know that cops can't accept money in addition to their regular pay for their presence or duty(that would be a bribe), we also know that police officers are supposed to be honest, and that they are held to the highest standards in that regard (in a perfect world).
"Should" vs. "Would" : it seems that the terms are almost interchangeable in these instances. If you think about the situations that you presented to us, the only good answer is the one that puts you in the light of being honourable and trustworthy according to the generally accepted/expected behaviour of a police officer. (not necessarily the actual behaviour of the few that get the media attention).
Again, just my take on the situation.. your ethics teacher may be looking for something that leans more toward the "brothers-in-arms" theology. I wish you the best of luck, you only have a few hours left.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 12:58 PM
I see your point. In this case, the question assumes that you didn't report the incident as you probably should have. Now you have to decide whether to confirm or deny that you heard what happened during the incident in question.
Quick postulation on policies: assuming that we all hold police to a certain standard, it is reasonable that we can extrapolate a basic set of "codes of conduct" that just about any officer would be expected to follow. We know that cops can't accept money in addition to their regular pay for their presence or duty(that would be a bribe), we also know that police officers are supposed to be honest, and that they are held to the highest standards in that regard (in a perfect world).
"Should" vs. "Would" : it seems that the terms are almost interchangeable in these instances. If you think about the situations that you presented to us, the only good answer is the one that puts you in the light of being honourable and trustworthy according to the generally accepted/expected behaviour of a police officer. (not necessarily the actual behaviour of the few that get the media attention).
Again, just my take on the situation.. your ethics teacher may be looking for something that leans more toward the "brothers-in-arms" theology. I wish you the best of luck, you only have a few hours left.

In general, you are right that "should" and "would" ought to be the same thing. When practicing for oral boards, they tell you to first be honest and second not over think, just do the "right thing." That being said, creative out of the box thinking is encouraged, as is realizing that, in almost any situation, you have discretion to make decisions based on what you feel is right. (as long as you are within the law and agency policy.)

Oh, and regarding "brothers-in-arms." I do not deny that this mindset exists, and there is a certain amount of legitimacy to looking out for the backs of those who watch your back, there is also the danger of an "us v them" mentality growing from that as well as greater potential for corruption. I seriously doubt that an ethics professor is going to be pushing this, as you put it, "theology." Especially since elements of it will come naturally to you over time. The professors job is more to get you to think about things and, perhaps if the time comes, go against that code because you want to do the right thing.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:03 PM
I think I'm just way overthinking the whole "SHOULD"/"WOULD" wording.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:07 PM
I think I'm just way overthinking the whole "SHOULD"/"WOULD" wording.

Perhaps. But it's fun to debate. :) And, for the record, although they are not all exactly what I woulda said, I think you did a pretty good job on the questions you posted.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:16 PM
Perhaps. But it's fun to debate. :) And, for the record, although they are not all exactly what I woulda said, I think you did a pretty good job on the questions you posted.

I've had other teachers tell me that I was reading way to much into things and making it harder than it should be, but to me the way thinks are worded changes the meaning of the question. WHAT WOULD YOU DO is different than WHAT SHOULD YOU DO in my mind and to take it further if she had said WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO is different than WHAT SHOULD YOU DO. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO implies that I don't know the policy so I can answer what I think is appropriate based on what I would think the policy states or should state as in my mind WHAT SHOULD YOU DO implies I know what the policy states and I should answer in accordance with Department policy. Man I am way overthinking this.

And thanks for the input on the answers I posted.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:20 PM
I've had other teachers tell me that I was reading way to much into things and making it harder than it should be, but to me the way thinks are worded changes the meaning of the question. WHAT WOULD YOU DO is different than WHAT SHOULD YOU DO in my mind and to take it further if she had said WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO is different than WHAT SHOULD YOU DO. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO implies that I don't know the policy so I can answer what I think is appropriate based on what I would think the policy states or should state as in my mind WHAT SHOULD YOU DO implies I know what the policy states and I should answer in accordance with Department policy. Man I am way overthinking this.

And thanks for the input on the answers I posted.

I think I see a steam cloud rising in the east. Is that coming out of your ears?

I feel you. I have the same issues with questions on psych/personality tests. They'll ask basically the same question several times, but in my mind they are subtly different cause they will be "have you?" "do you?" "would you?" type things. And sometimes the answers will be different based on that. (in my mind anyhow.)

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 01:22 PM
I think I see a steam cloud rising in the east. Is that coming out of your ears?

I feel you. I have the same issues with questions on psych/personality tests. They'll ask basically the same question several times, but in my mind they are subtly different cause they will be "have you?" "do you?" "would you?" type things. And sometimes the answers will be different based on that. (in my mind anyhow.)

And of course all of us too-smart-by-half types are trying to answer the question, "What answer do you want?" before we answer the original question...

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:26 PM
And of course all of us too-smart-by-half types are trying to answer the question, "What answer do you want?" before we answer the original question...

Yeah, but I have the additional pressure in my field of knowing that they're gonna check my answers when they do my background check and they're gonna revisit some things in the polygraph too.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:28 PM
And of course all of us too-smart-by-half types are trying to answer the question, "What answer do you want?" before we answer the original question...

I refuse to do the "WHAT ANSWER DO YOU WANT" route. Our last assignment had a question that asked
The History of Slaver in the United States has created great psychological and social problems for succeeding generations of black citizens. How does the legacy of slavery continue to impact both black and whites?
Obviously I knew what she wanted us to say, but since I disagree with the statement as a whole I answered how I honestly felt. I was marked down based on my answer. The question was worth 10 points and I received .01 points lol, guess she had to give me something since i took the time to answer the question lol Not answer how she wanted me to cost me a perfect score on the paper :( but I felt better for honestly answering the question.

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Yeah, but I have the additional pressure in my field of knowing that they're gonna check my answers when they do my background check and they're gonna revisit some things in the polygraph too.

Ah. Well, in that case, be completely honest and if you don't pass the test, maybe it's not the job for you...

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:35 PM
I refuse to do the "WHAT ANSWER DO YOU WANT" route. Our last assignment had a question that asked
The History of Slaver in the United States has created great psychological and social problems for succeeding generations of black citizens. How does the legacy of slavery continue to impact both black and whites?
Obviously I knew what she wanted us to say, but since I disagree with the statement as a whole I answered how I honestly felt. I was marked down based on my answer. The question was worth 10 points and I received .01 points lol, guess she had to give me something since i took the time to answer the question lol Not answer how she wanted me to cost me a perfect score on the paper :( but I felt better for honestly answering the question.

That's kinda a bullshit question anyhow. I mean, I guess it's a legitimate question, but it isn't the sort of question that truly has a "right" answer. The professor should have marked you on your reasoning, support, and how well you made your point. not on the content of your answer. And if you had solid reasoning, good support, and wrote it well, given you good marks, even if she didn't agree with you.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:39 PM
That's kinda a bullshit question anyhow. I mean, I guess it's a legitimate question, but it isn't the sort of question that truly has a "right" answer. The professor should have marked you on your reasoning, support, and how well you made your point. not on the content of your answer. And if you had solid reasoning, good support, and wrote it well, given you good marks, even if she didn't agree with you.

Well, here was my answer (notice I did cite my sources, which was beyond the scope of the assignment)
6. Slavery is an excuse. It was ended 150 years ago and many American families came to this country after emancipation, no former slave owner or slave is still living. In 1843, many ex-slaves were able to rise above their former station to become prominent politicians and business owners. Throughout the succeeding generations those who had the willpower to lift themselves up have been able to do so despite Jim Crow laws. Far too often we here the excuse “we were slaves” as an excuse for failure, ignoring the fact that African-Americans were not the only people brought to these shores as slaves. I find it hard to believe that the 34.6 million African-Americans (2000 U.S. Census) living in America are descended from the only 645,000 black slaves brought into this country (Stephen Behrendt (1999). "Transatlantic Slave Trade". Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience. New York: Basic Civitas Books.). I believe that most whites would judge on the character of the person if this excuse was not thrown up so often.
I guess I could have been more sensitive in my answer.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Well, here was my answer (notice I did cite my sources, which was beyond the scope of the assignment)
6. Slavery is an excuse. It was ended 150 years ago and many American families came to this country after emancipation, no former slave owner or slave is still living. In 1843, many ex-slaves were able to rise above their former station to become prominent politicians and business owners. Throughout the succeeding generations those who had the willpower to lift themselves up have been able to do so despite Jim Crow laws. Far too often we here the excuse “we were slaves” as an excuse for failure, ignoring the fact that African-Americans were not the only people brought to these shores as slaves. I find it hard to believe that the 34.6 million African-Americans (2000 U.S. Census) living in America are descended from the only 645,000 black slaves brought into this country (Stephen Behrendt (1999). "Transatlantic Slave Trade". Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience. New York: Basic Civitas Books.). I believe that most whites would judge on the character of the person if this excuse was not thrown up so often.
I guess I could have been more sensitive in my answer.

Ummmm. Actually... I do tend you agree with you (in fact, although I know that in certain places in the south it is still an issue, I feel that from what I see, racism is far more prevalent in the African American community than elsewhere.) but.... I don't think you answered her question. Sorry.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:49 PM
but.... I don't think you answered her question. Sorry.

Yeah, probably not. I knew what she wanted but I refused to give it to her since I thought it was a crap question.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Yeah, probably not. I knew what she wanted but I refused to give it to her since I thought it was a crap question.

I'm just saying you coulda been true to yourself and made you points as well as answering her question just by framing your answer differently.

But ah well. Water under the bridge, spilled milk, etc.

(and I know we're being rational and mature and I get the impression that this community, by and large, will be rational and mature. But this sort of topic is dangerous to delve too deeply into on the internet.)

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 01:56 PM
I guess I could have been more sensitive in my answer.

It's a touchy question and it always will be. There's still crap going on in Canada between blacks and whites even though there never was slavery here (I think now it's more immigrants bringing cultural differences, honestly), some people are just afraid of or hate anyone who is different from them, and there's nothing you're going to say or do that's going to change their minds, even though most of the rest of us ask, "wait, what? You seriously think there's a difference between you because of the colour of your skin? Really?"

... but of course we are not without our own problems... our particular sticking point here is native reserves... but again, there's no real answer to that either.

And it really doesn't help either side of the issue when people walk right into the stereotypes other people have about them, whether it be "helpless" women using their sex to manipulate, domineering men, gangstas spewing "ebonics", upper-class bigots, drunk or violent natives, or what have you, pick an ethnicity or culture, there's a stereotype we've all seen for ourselves (imagine my surprise when on a hike in Algonquin Park fifteen years ago, we were approached by a closely-huddled pack of Japanese tourists with cameras sticking out all over, I had thought that had to be an exaggeration until I saw it myself!). We're all people, we all have some amount of control over ourselves, we can all overcome conditioned responses... and the more we interact with others who are different, the more we will come to understand them and be comfortable with it all...

And I'm going to go for my jog before this becomes a political rant, sorry for going off-topic! :)

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
(and I know we're being rational and mature and I get the impression that this community, by and large, will be rational and mature. But this sort of topic is dangerous to delve too deeply into on the internet.)

very true! It's a hot button topic and always will be.

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 02:00 PM
(and I know we're being rational and mature and I get the impression that this community, by and large, will be rational and mature. But this sort of topic is dangerous to delve too deeply into on the internet.)

We even have proof - almost 400 posts on a thread that turned into a religious discussion (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18012&page=20), nobody flamed, nobody banned, nobody even impolite, even though it's quite obvious some posters have very strong feelings, we all just shared our thoughts for a better understanding of how the others think. I'm so proud of us.

Jog. Now.

ChadK
04-17-2012, 02:08 PM
We even have proof - almost 400 posts on a thread that turned into a religious discussion (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18012&page=20), nobody flamed, nobody banned, nobody even impolite, even though it's quite obvious some posters have very strong feelings, we all just shared our thoughts for a better understanding of how the others think. I'm so proud of us.

Jog. Now.

And all I have to say is... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXg8E0kzF1c)

HunnyBunz
04-17-2012, 02:20 PM
We're all people, we all have some amount of control over ourselves, we can all overcome conditioned responses... and the more we interact with others who are different, the more we will come to understand them and be comfortable with it all...

I like your thinking... it shows a lot of insight.

Has anyone ever wondered what it would be like to live in a world without prejudice or selfishness or greed? - Just food for thought. I get sick of the way this world is sometimes. Particularly the way everything revolves around money.

Chevette Girl
04-17-2012, 02:57 PM
Particularly the way everything revolves around money.

My husband always says, "Money is a lousy way to keep score."

ChadK
04-17-2012, 02:59 PM
My husband always says, "Money is a lousy way to keep score."

But it's the only way to buy malt and hops and honey.

TAKeyser
04-17-2012, 03:00 PM
But it's the only way to buy malt and hops and honey.

Well, I'm growing my own Hops this year, but it's still the only way to buy malt and honey ;D

ChadK
04-17-2012, 03:04 PM
Well, I'm growing my own Hops this year, but it's still the only way to buy malt and honey ;D

:) I knew someone would go there.

Now we just need someone to pipe up with "I grow my own barley" or "I keep bees."

Guinlilly
04-17-2012, 04:51 PM
:) I knew someone would go there.

Now we just need someone to pipe up with "I grow my own barley" or "I keep bees."

Weeeeelll....We grow our own hops, herbs, roses, some grapes, and berries for mead. Had a hive as well but we think the hard winter of 2 years ago killed them. We'll get another hive again at some point in time. ;)

ChadK
04-17-2012, 05:30 PM
Weeeeelll....We grow our own hops, herbs, roses, some grapes, and berries for mead. Had a hive as well but we think the hard winter of 2 years ago killed them. We'll get another hive again at some point in time. ;)

Can I move in with you? :) If you have enough land, I'll just plant and tend to the barley and then you'll be set.

ChadK
04-19-2012, 12:43 AM
Spammers are back. :sigh:

TAKeyser
04-19-2012, 03:15 AM
Damn Spammers!!!!

On a side note I still haven't got the ethic question grade back yet, put I did get my grade for my Compare and Contrast Paper (I chose to do it on State Run Prisons vs Private Prisons) and I got a 100%

TheAlchemist
04-22-2012, 09:25 AM
My husband always says, "Money is a lousy way to keep score."

Love this.

TheAlchemist
04-24-2012, 09:07 AM
Yeah, probably not. I knew what she wanted but I refused to give it to her since I thought it was a crap question.

And now for a few words about The Emerald Isle.

I paid a visit about 10 years ago, but I doubt much has changed since then in this respect.

In the southern part of the island the countryside is dotted with smashed stone cottages. Evidence of the presence of the Black & Tans some 150yr ago. In the northern part of the island there are occasional big old manor houses likewise in ruin, evidence of revolting common folk.

Back in the day, it is reasonable to expect that there were ruined cottages and ruined manor houses all over the island, north and south.

It is human nature for the oppressor to be disinclined to recall evidence oh having been oppressive, just as it is human nature for the oppressee to maintain evidence of having been oppressed.

The southerners presumably cleaned up and either renovated or removed evidence of smashed manor houses. The northerners presumably cleaned up or renovated the smashed stone cottages. Who wants to be always looking at evidence of their own shame?

Germany is one remarkable exception, where a traveler can visit evidence of Arbeit Macht Frei or Jedem Das Seine.