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View Full Version : This has absolutely nothing to do with mead



ChadK
04-22-2012, 11:55 PM
But I get the impression that some of the denizens of these fora may know the answer. When a young single Victorian/Edwardian lady wanted to go riding by herself, who/how many people was she required to actually have with her? I was assuming a groom, but then I was like "wouldn't that be improper for her to be out alone with this man?"

Chevette Girl
04-23-2012, 03:08 AM
I totally reserve the right to be wrong but I suspect that she'd have had her lady-in-waiting to accompany her. The groom probably just gets the horses ready for m'lady and her companion.

ChadK
04-23-2012, 03:43 AM
I totally reserve the right to be wrong but I suspect that she'd have had her lady-in-waiting to accompany her. The groom probably just gets the horses ready for m'lady and her companion.

Thanks. You took long enough that was able to find the answer elsewhere, but you are right. Although from what I can gather, since my character's father is an Earl, she wouldn't quite rate a lady-in-waiting, but rather have a handmaid. Of course, I also reserve the right to be wrong there. So anyone who knows better, or can correct what I've found can feel free to put me in my place.

Guinlilly
04-23-2012, 10:27 AM
Thanks. You took long enough that was able to find the answer elsewhere, but you are right. Although from what I can gather, since my character's father is an Earl, she wouldn't quite rate a lady-in-waiting, but rather have a handmaid. Of course, I also reserve the right to be wrong there. So anyone who knows better, or can correct what I've found can feel free to put me in my place.

They wouldn't have just ridden with another woman. For one thing, a lot of the middle class ladies would have had maids that would not know how to ride a horse. A lady would have also needed a man with her in case she needed someone to boost her back into her sidesaddle. If you look at this portrait of Victoria her chaperone is a man. (http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/400749) Most of them would have been allowed out with a man of the house that was well trusted.

ChadK
04-23-2012, 10:59 AM
They wouldn't have just ridden with another woman. For one thing, a lot of the middle class ladies would have had maids that would not know how to ride a horse. A lady would have also needed a man with her in case she needed someone to boost her back into her sidesaddle. If you look at this portrait of Victoria her chaperone is a man. (http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/400749) Most of them would have been allowed out with a man of the house that was well trusted.

That was actually my first instinct, but I thought about the impropriety of a lady being out alone with a man, and that is what first spurred me to ask the question. You also bring up a good point that had not occurred to me till I was considering her getting off her horse. (in fact, I was planning on googling for mounting and dismounting sidesaddle this morning to find out if it was possible without help.)

Penguinetti
04-23-2012, 11:08 AM
So...

out of curiosity's sake, are you planning on portraying a young single Victorian/Edwardian Lady who goes riding on a horse?

ChadK
04-23-2012, 11:10 AM
So...

out of curiosity's sake, are you planning on portraying a young single Victorian/Edwardian Lady who goes riding on a horse?

No. A modern day married cougar who goes for a drive in a mustang. :p;)

Guinlilly
04-23-2012, 11:12 AM
That was actually my first instinct, but I thought about the impropriety of a lady being out alone with a man, and that is what first spurred me to ask the question. You also bring up a good point that had not occurred to me till I was considering her getting off her horse. (in fact, I was planning on googling for mounting and dismounting sidesaddle this morning to find out if it was possible without help.)

It's pretty much impossible to mount and dismount by yourself in a modern 2-headed sidesaddle. To properly mount, the block needs to be about even with the horse's back, the lady then slides over and hooks her leg over the leaping head, her groom then helps her properly arrange her skirts so her legs don't show. The groom who helps a lady mount needs to be a trusted servant of the family because he usually does get a glimpse of her leg. In cases when there isn't a block handy, the lady would usually have to place her foot on a shoulder and be lifted up and into the saddle to get across the leaping head. I have some blogs written by modern side saddle riders if you are interested and I wrote my Art History master's degree on women in sporting art focusing on how horse back riding and hunting were gateways to women's lib.

Here's a good blog post showing how you have to mount (http://ridingaside.blogspot.com/2012/03/answering-your-questions.html)

ChadK
04-23-2012, 11:20 AM
It's pretty much impossible to mount and dismount by yourself in a modern 2-headed sidesaddle. To properly mount, the block needs to be about even with the horse's back, the lady then slides over and hooks her leg over the leaping head, her groom then helps her properly arrange her skirts so her legs don't show. The groom who helps a lady mount needs to be a trusted servant of the family because he usually does get a glimpse of her leg. In cases when there isn't a block handy, the lady would usually have to place her foot on a shoulder and be lifted up and into the saddle to get across the leaping head. I have some blogs written by modern side saddle riders if you are interested and I wrote my Art History master's degree on women in sporting art focusing on how horse back riding and hunting were gateways to women's lib.

Ooh. I was expecting to find enthusiasts, but a bonafide expert? I lucked out here. ;D I would actually find that quite interesting, thanks. I'm guessing you would also know what "regular" riding is called? (as opposed to sidesaddle) My guess was "astride"

Guinlilly
04-23-2012, 11:24 AM
Ooh. I was expecting to find enthusiasts, but a bonafide expert? I lucked out here. ;D I would actually find that quite interesting, thanks. I'm guessing you would also know what "regular" riding is called? (as opposed to sidesaddle) My guess was "astride"

You got it! It is called astride. I've ridden astride since I was about 5 years old. I've had the past few years off because I don't have the funds to ride, but SOON, SOON I will ride again as I have a farm less than 10 minutes away that teaches aside (another word for sidesaddle). :)

ChadK
04-23-2012, 11:41 AM
You got it! It is called astride. I've ridden astride since I was about 5 years old. I've had the past few years off because I don't have the funds to ride, but SOON, SOON I will ride again as I have a farm less than 10 minutes away that teaches aside (another word for sidesaddle). :)

Cool! Sometimes I guess right! Yeah, I saw that aside when I clicked that blog link. If you will indulge me, I'd like to post a brief paragraph (already changed back to groom from handmaid) my question now is authenticity in terminology and concept of riding fast.


“Lady Mel! Lady Mel!” Melinda ignored her groom, Walter, calling her to slow down. She loved giving Buttercup her head and if Walter couldn’t keep up, that was his problem; Kaiser was plenty fast enough, but Walter lacked the confidence to really let him go. Besides, she loved the time to herself out in the fresh air.

(laughing at myself as I hesitate with the cursor over "submit reply." Just click the damn thing, Chad.)

Penguinetti
04-23-2012, 12:01 PM
No. A modern day married cougar who goes for a drive in a mustang. :p;)



....





.... Something, is amiss...

ChadK
04-23-2012, 12:06 PM
.... Something, is amiss...

Exactly. Not a Mrs.

Guinlilly
04-23-2012, 12:13 PM
Sounds good! If you want a little 'light' reading here's a scholarly book called Victorian Fiction and The Cult of the Horse (http://books.google.com/books?id=heucvIk0pm8C&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Victorian+women's+horse+riding+etiquette&source=bl&ots=R0Ja1LTUsi&sig=yTxjJKuUcm6U1vakqKsVLFhzu68&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0meVT9GtF4SY6QGql7WeBA&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Victorian%20women's%20horse%20riding%20etiquette&f=false)

ChadK
04-23-2012, 12:18 PM
Sounds good! If you want a little 'light' reading here's a scholarly book called Victorian Fiction and The Cult of the Horse (http://books.google.com/books?id=heucvIk0pm8C&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Victorian+women's+horse+riding+etiquette&source=bl&ots=R0Ja1LTUsi&sig=yTxjJKuUcm6U1vakqKsVLFhzu68&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0meVT9GtF4SY6QGql7WeBA&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Victorian%20women's%20horse%20riding%20etiquette&f=false)

Bookmarked. I'll read it later, right now I have me some sima to make.

Chevette Girl
04-23-2012, 12:55 PM
I have seen a sidesaddle saddle up close, but I never realized they were so much work to get into... although I'd imagine with 20-30 lbs of dress to handle it wouldn't be much fun for anyone involved... my pony would certainly never stand still for all that. Were they using corsets at that point? I can't imagine riding in a corset... for that matter, I'd never ride with my armour on either, the last thing I'd want to do is hit the ground with an extra 100 lb of metal "helping"... Jousters are insane (I have met some of the guys from "Full Metal Jousting (http://www.history.com/shows/full-metal-jousting/articles/shane-adams-and-full-contact-jousting)". Nutters, the lot of them. (I say this admiringly, the way one speaks of star athletes or stunt-people on movie sets).

I don't often use a saddle, myself... pony's so round it's like trying to saddle an oil barrel and I am more stable up there without one (the only time I need a mounting block is if I use the saddle, it'll slide off-centre if I use the stirrup to mount), so we only really bother if we're planning to go over jumps or go somewhere scary where I expect her to bolt or otherwise misbehave, but even when she bucks with no saddle, it's mostly laughable as long as she's not also spinning in place...

A cougar "riding" a Mustang, huh? Better not let TheAlchemist hear you dissing Mustang Ladies :D

Guinlilly
04-23-2012, 02:26 PM
I have seen a sidesaddle saddle up close, but I never realized they were so much work to get into... although I'd imagine with 20-30 lbs of dress to handle it wouldn't be much fun for anyone involved... my pony would certainly never stand still for all that. Were they using corsets at that point? I can't imagine riding in a corset... for that matter, I'd never ride with my armour on either, the last thing I'd want to do is hit the ground with an extra 100 lb of metal "helping"... Jousters are insane

Yep to the corsets. No proper lady left the house without one. ;) They were specially made corsets though which tended to be shorter waisted with higher hips (http://www.sidesaddlegirl.co.uk/2011/05/1870s-riding-corset.html) or had lacing at the hip gussets to allow for greater movement (http://www.sidesaddlegirl.co.uk/2011/07/look-at-riding-corset-ferris-good-sense.html).

ChadK
04-23-2012, 09:25 PM
Thanks for the help. I think the scene came out nicely, and the info will come in good stead as the story goes on, as I'm sure this won't be the only scene on horseback. (I'm trying my hand at a Steampunk story. It hasn't told me yet whether it's a novel or a novella.)

Chevette Girl
04-24-2012, 01:11 AM
Well, good luck with your writings, and you know where to come if you have questions about horses and riding!

ChadK
04-24-2012, 01:23 AM
Well, good luck with your writings, and you know where to come if you have questions about horses and riding!

Damn straight, I do.

TheAlchemist
04-24-2012, 08:54 AM
A cougar "riding" a Mustang, huh? Better not let TheAlchemist hear you dissing Mustang Ladies :D

Ha! My Mustang rides me!:cool:

Altricious
04-24-2012, 09:39 AM
Ha! My Mustang rides me!:cool:

Well, there's an image.

ChadK
04-24-2012, 11:24 AM
Ha! My Mustang rides me!:cool:

I hear you can see that show in Tijuana.