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Sourcheese
06-13-2012, 12:34 AM
Just saying. I think of the entire process, I hate sanitizing the most. I think I go a little overboard with it too.

Perhaps mead is so tough that it doesnt need it? Just hot water and a prayer. I want to find this out.

Gnight all.

tweak'e
06-13-2012, 12:50 AM
i think the most important things is phyical removal of dirt and cleaning AFTER use so there is no food for bugs to eat and breed while your gear sits stored away.

Chevette Girl
06-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Read up on what others do... there are all kinds of little tricks to make the sanitizing less painful... Fatbloke and me and a couple others keep a spraybottle of it and soak down stuff that's hard to pour directly into, and once you do everything a couple of times you figure out what way works best for you. And a good wash with hot soapy water hasn't hurt any of my JAO's, and most meads and wines really are pretty resistant, but when you're doing a big expensive batch, why risk it if you can take a few ounces of prevention?

Sourcheese
06-13-2012, 12:55 AM
I need to find out if thats true or not. Ill spend like an hour to 2 hours cleaning this shit. Rinsing and cleaning and whatever. If after I clean anything that would come in contact with my mead touches anything I do it all over again. And I usually use starsan. I used iophore tonight... I hate it. Stains everything and reminds me to much of surgical scrub iodine. Infact if this isnt iodine then I am a blind fool who has forgotten the face of his father.


Chevette girl... would just using starsan and rinsing once work? Let the bubbles kill everything? sit for like 30 minutes then rinse with hot water?

Chevette Girl
06-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Go back to starsan then, don't use something you dislike... I use potassium metabisulphite solution. I keep a 1-litre mason jar full, plus the spray bottle, and when I'm actually bottling, I use a bottle rinser (http://www.amazon.com/Bottle-Rinser-Sulfiter/dp/B0064ODV1Q)too. That also works really well for pushing it through the racking hose... I run some through the racking cane and then spray down the outside. You might find having a sanitary bucket might help, spray or rinse down the sides of it and anything sanitized goes in there where it's safe to put it down... then when you're done, rinse in water, rinse with sanitizer, back in the bucket in case you need it again.

I give it about 30 seconds minimum (I think it's supposed to get two minutes), but it's better than spray and dunk! :) Check your product's instructions, that'll tell you how long things need to soak, I'm pretty sure the bubbles ARE supposed to kill anything left behind.

You'll figure it out, and you'll tweak your procedures until you've got something you can live with.

Sourcheese
06-13-2012, 01:15 AM
great reply and my thanks. Ive been using spare fermentation buckets to soak it in, and a random large tupperware container to dry it in to work.

I like the idea of a spray bottle.

You give great advice thank you.


And as a side note, I thought this mead would be ready by christmas. Now Im thinking it wont be. I have seen it age well. I plan to marry my girlfreind within 2 years.

It would be fantastic to have about 17 gallons of mead bottled and ready to go by a beach with a pigroast ready to be drank.

dingurth
06-13-2012, 01:22 AM
I just straight followed the advice on the newbee guide. Soak everything in bleach water for 15-20 mins, then rinse until you can't smell bleach anymore. The rinsing is the longest part afterwards. For the little things, it doesn't take much to get them clean, but for the carboys and racking equipment, I have to rinse them at least 4 times usually. Not including the 20 minute soak, it probably only takes me half an hour to sanitize for a batch.

After I've bottled or racked, I take the dirty carboys and rinse/scrub them out with hot soapy water and wait until the next batch to actually sanitize them.

Undead
06-13-2012, 03:24 AM
I do a tbsp of bleach per gallon and rinse it a bunch. It's the strongest they recommend for food contact surfaces. I have never had any issues. I use b-brite after fermentation to clean out all of the lees after rinsing. A tip I heard of here if you are using larger carboys is to use a detachable shower head to fill them and rinse. It has certainly saved me time.

THawk
06-13-2012, 04:54 AM
I just throw everything into the 2-gallon bucket I'll be using. Since there's about a 1-minute wait per the instructions, I use that time to get my ingredients ready. StarSan makes sanitation a breeze since you don't have to copiously rinse it out like bleach, and it's safe for the environment...

Noe Palacios
06-13-2012, 11:22 AM
I 'm pretty sure the bubbles ARE supposed to kill anything left behind.

Actually they don't, surface activeness gives other benefits which are:


Detachment of adhered particles from vessel's surface.

Encreasing the contact surface by purging air from the microscopic pores of the vessel's wall, so chemicals bonded to the surface active substance are allowed to do a better job. Note: these pores are almost inexistent if you use stainless steel vessels.


When I do something in my nano-meadery, 50% of the working time is sanitizing. I hate it too, but it is necesary.

What do you think? - If I place a UV lamp in my nano-meadery - Will it be aseptic enough so I could reduce my sanitizing time and efforts to the minimum?

Saludos,

Whatshisface
06-13-2012, 12:41 PM
I used to use bleach to sanitize my equipment but I found that it can definitely ruin ales. The other problem I have with bleach is all the rinsing. I have well water and I never feel comfortable rinsing with it. Now I sanitize with Star San and only need to rinse once with boiled well water or distilled water. The good thing with Star San is that it is an acid based sanitizer and can be reused over and over again so long as the Ph level stays at 3 or less. When I am brewing, I generally have two buckets one for sanitizing and one for rinse.

TAKeyser
06-13-2012, 03:22 PM
According to 5 Star "Star-San is a no-rinse sanitizer so there really is no need to worry about rinsing which greatly speeds up the time.

Whatshisface
06-13-2012, 03:37 PM
According to 5 Star "Star-San is a no-rinse sanitizer so there really is no need to worry about rinsing which greatly speeds up the time.

Yeah I know, but whenever I look at all those bubbles I have to rinse.

tatgeer
06-13-2012, 03:53 PM
For bottling day, I fill a fermenting bucket with a batch of starsan, then soak clean bottles in it, pulling a few bottles out at a time as I'm ready to fill them.

I can then also use some of that large batch of starsan to fill my spray bottle for future miscellaneous uses, to soak bottle caps, and to sanitize hosing etc as I work on bottling day.


The step I hate is cleaning bottles - I think I've come up with a good system, but it's still pretty tedious. Also can be icky if I've gotten bottles from a non-brewer (ie, bottles that were never rinsed, ew!)

TAKeyser
06-13-2012, 04:03 PM
Yeah I know, but whenever I look at all those bubbles I have to rinse.

I keep a spray bottle of 1 Step no-rinse cleanse in the fridge (company says it will keep a month in fridge) and I'll give a quick spray of any of the huge bubbles if needed. Easier than rinsing the whole jug again.

Whatshisface
06-13-2012, 04:40 PM
I keep a spray bottle of 1 Step no-rinse cleanse in the fridge (company says it will keep a month in fridge) and I'll give a quick spray of any of the huge bubbles if needed. Easier than rinsing the whole jug again.

Ya know I have some 1 step at the house, I will have to try that.

TAKeyser
06-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Ya know I have some 1 step at the house, I will have to try that.

I just figure it has to be better than just rinsing with water and a couple sprays aimed at any remaining bubbles seems to do the trick.

dingurth
06-13-2012, 05:11 PM
What do you think? - If I place a UV lamp in my nano-meadery - Will it be aseptic enough so I could reduce my sanitizing time and efforts to the minimum?



I was thinking about this myself. I assume you mean just leaving your equipment under a UV lamp and not any mead you would be currently working on... I don't think that would go well for the yeasties. I know a lot of research is being done in the medical field for treating wounds with UV light and having them in hospitals, but I have no idea how much you would need/how powerful the bulbs would need to be. Plus a problem you would run into is that if you are using glass carboys, well glass absorbs UV light, so it wouldn't actually pass through and clean the inside. I suppose you could lower a small one through the neck of the bottle. Anyone ever heard of someone using UV to sanitize?

Nathan K
06-13-2012, 05:18 PM
... And I usually use starsan. I used iophore tonight... I hate it. Stains everything and reminds me to much of surgical scrub iodine. Infact if this isnt iodine then I am a blind fool who has forgotten the face of his father.

Chevette girl... would just using starsan and rinsing once work? Let the bubbles kill everything? sit for like 30 minutes then rinse with hot water?

Iodophor is quite a bit different, chemically speaking, than iodine. It is an iodine molecule bonded to a polymer and it is roughly 1000 times less toxic than iodone.

You shouldn't rinse any sanitizer, including starsan. Rinsing can technically "re-infect" what you just sanitized. There are two main components to cleaning/sanitizing. You should first remove any physical dirt that you can see. Once the vessel is so clean that you can't see any dirt, you should sanitize to remove invisible bugs. Different sanitizers have different requirements for contact time. For instance, bleach/water mix needs about 20 minutes of contact time, Iodophor needs about 2 minutes, and starsan needs about 30 seconds. The directions on starsan (I'm looking at a bottle right now) say that you should let it air-dry after sanitizing. You should always clean your equipment ASAP after emptying it. Leaving nasty gunk in your carboys will make it harder to clean them later.

As to whether or not it's required, I do it just to be safe. I've had batches of beer go bad before when I wasn't careful. That said, alcohol kills most undesirables so if you have a very strong primary fermentation it's very possible to overwhelm any nasties that might be present.

wayneb
06-13-2012, 06:33 PM
Anyone ever heard of someone using UV to sanitize?

UV is used to sanitize potable water supplies in various places, and small units are now routinely sold as water sterilization systems for home aquariums. However, the effectiveness of UV light as a sanitizer is directly related to the degree of transmission that you get in the medium that you are trying to sanitize. UV light penetrates fairly well over relatively short distances in clear water, but turbid water is a totally different story. Also, some glass formulations effectively block most UV, especially the short wavelength UV that is the most effective at killing microorganisms. Shortwave UV is also hazardous to humans, causing everything from skin cancers to cataracts and other causes of blindness. So I don't think that UV light is the best possible choice for sanitizing a meadmaking facility, or equipment.

hepcat
06-13-2012, 08:20 PM
Yeah I know, but whenever I look at all those bubbles I have to rinse.

haha, me too.:cool:

Chevette Girl
06-13-2012, 09:33 PM
After I've bottled or racked, I take the dirty carboys and rinse/scrub them out with hot soapy water and wait until the next batch to actually sanitize them.

Me too, as long as they dry properly it's all good, although in cases where I couldn't dry them, a rinse with sanitizer and then being stoppered up wet also will keep them from getting fuzzy. I've got a bottle blaster tap attachment and half the time I don't even bother scrubbing them, the blaster gets them pretty clean!



The step I hate is cleaning bottles - I think I've come up with a good system, but it's still pretty tedious. Also can be icky if I've gotten bottles from a non-brewer (ie, bottles that were never rinsed, ew!)

Ugh, also my least favourite task. Actually, no. De-labelling them is the hateful part. Cleaning them's a snap, and I keep telling people who save them for me not to rinse, just put the cork back in, that keeps 'em less likely to go fuzzy than improperly-drained rinse-water.

Noe Palacios
06-13-2012, 10:45 PM
UV is used to sanitize potable water supplies in various places, and small units are now routinely sold as water sterilization systems for home aquariums. However, the effectiveness of UV light as a sanitizer is directly related to the degree of transmission that you get in the medium that you are trying to sanitize. UV light penetrates fairly well over relatively short distances in clear water, but turbid water is a totally different story. Also, some glass formulations effectively block most UV, especially the short wavelength UV that is the most effective at killing microorganisms. Shortwave UV is also hazardous to humans, causing everything from skin cancers to cataracts and other causes of blindness. So I don't think that UV light is the best possible choice for sanitizing a meadmaking facility, or equipment.

Wayne, what I had in mind was air, if air is aseptic the biohazard is lower.

Another method is ozonized water. Ozone is good, probably the best, but my pocket still small and I can't buy that toy ... yet.

Saludos,

wayneb
06-13-2012, 11:34 PM
UV will certainly work in air, although in order to provide enough intensity to be antimicrobial, again you will need to take care to limit human exposure. That much UV is not good for you.

Noe Palacios
06-14-2012, 01:03 AM
UV will certainly work in air, although in order to provide enough intensity to be antimicrobial, again you will need to take care to limit human exposure. That much UV is not good for you.

It was just an idea, a crazy dream like others I have, so ... I better continue paying my aide, and while he does all the sanitize thing I'll keep busy myself with other more interesting tasks.

Saludos,

THawk
06-14-2012, 04:10 AM
haha, me too.:cool:

Ditto! It's the thing about seeing bubbles and automatically thinking it's soap (even if it's not!) ;D

wildoates
06-14-2012, 11:10 AM
Well, I'm lazy. REALLY lazy.

What I do is make about 2 gallons of star san solution in a bucket and toss everything I'm going to use in it, along with a small plastic cup. I use the cup to drench everything that isn't covered by the solution, filling all the hoses, tubes, etc. I pour that solution back and forth into the various containers I will be using, fermentation bucket, bottling bucket, carboy, whatever.I splash the walls, outsides, lids, whatever might conceivably come into contact with the mead. I do that several times. If I had a spray bottle (I have been meaning to do so for years, but as I said...I'm really lazy. :rolleyes:) I'd use that to spray everything, too.

So far, so good.

wildoates
06-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Ugh, also my least favourite task. Actually, no. De-labelling them is the hateful part. Cleaning them's a snap, and I keep telling people who save them for me not to rinse, just put the cork back in, that keeps 'em less likely to go fuzzy than improperly-drained rinse-water.

That assumes you get to them right away after getting them, which for me is not a given. :)

A friend of mine just brought over SIX boxes of clean, dry, wine bottles. Score!

I usually ask folks to turn the bottles upside down in the box until they're dry, works pretty well.

Chevette Girl
06-14-2012, 11:28 PM
That assumes you get to them right away after getting them, which for me is not a given. :)

Actually, no... I'm pretty lazy too and I've left 'em for months and months just corked, no fuzzies. Nobody seems to be able to empty rinsed bottles completely though...

huesmann
06-16-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm a lazy bum. I mix up a gallon of 1-step when I'm putting together a batch, swish it around my fermenter and dip my utensils in it. My siphons and racking tubes I run some sanitizer through periodically, but otherwise I just rinse them with hot water before and after use.

When bottling, I do mix up a fresh batch of 1-step to use in my bottle sanitizer pump.

TAKeyser
06-16-2012, 04:15 PM
I'm a lazy bum. I mix up a gallon of 1-step when I'm putting together a batch, swish it around my fermenter and dip my utensils in it. My siphons and racking tubes I run some sanitizer through periodically, but otherwise I just rinse them with hot water before and after use.

When bottling, I do mix up a fresh batch of 1-step to use in my bottle sanitizer pump.

1 Step is technically a cleanser and not a sanitizer. It uses Oxygen (just like Oxi-clean) to dislodge gunk from carboys, etc but has no ingredient that actually sanitizes. Some LHBS repackage it and put One-Step Sanitizer on the labels, but the actual containers say Cleanser as you can see by clicking the image below.

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad22/odinsvinhof/My%20Meads/th_1step.jpg (http://s918.photobucket.com/albums/ad22/odinsvinhof/My%20Meads/?action=view&current=1step.jpg)