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View Full Version : Another reason to be careful with store-bought honey



wowbagger
06-18-2012, 01:41 PM
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/

psuath
06-18-2012, 02:37 PM
Hasn't this been going on for sometime now?

I'm not a chemist or whatever but wouldn't fine filtering remove bad stuff as well as pollen? I'm not saying this illegal honey is ok but posing a question.

I really wish there were good bee keepers near me so I wouldn't have to think of spending tones of money on bulk shipping...

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TAKeyser
06-18-2012, 02:43 PM
I really wish there were good bee keepers near me so I wouldn't have to think of spending tones of money on bulk shipping...

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Try BeeWell Honey in Pickens, SC http://www.beewellhoneyfarm.com/

Undead
06-18-2012, 03:26 PM
If anyone in AZ wants honey this is the place I use: http://www.crocketthoney.com/

psuath
06-18-2012, 06:47 PM
I'm actually near pittsburgh

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TAKeyser
06-18-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm actually near pittsburgh

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These are the one in western, PA

Hickory, Pa http://bedillionhoneyfarm.com/

Somerset, PA http://www.bumbleberryfarms.com/

Whitehall, PA http://www.mondjackapiaries.com/Pages/default.aspx

Hope one of these is nearby

THawk
06-19-2012, 01:49 AM
Try Flying Bee Ranch - http://www.flyingbeeranch.net

tweak'e
06-19-2012, 03:05 AM
Hasn't this been going on for sometime now?

I'm not a chemist or whatever but wouldn't fine filtering remove bad stuff as well as pollen? I'm not saying this illegal honey is ok but posing a question.


it won't be fine fine enough to get be able to remove yeast or bacteria. mind you the amount heat applied to it will have killed anything living in it.
i would still be worried about antibiotics and other drugs (they have used ones that can kill people).

Mars Colonist
06-19-2012, 10:24 AM
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/

Followup to Food Safety News Report: NPR says "Relax, Folks. It Really Is Honey After All" (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2011/11/25/142659547/relax-folks-it-really-is-honey-after-all?ft=1&f=1001)

interesting read.

psuath
06-19-2012, 12:29 PM
wow, those are some great resources for local honey.

one of the things that has been said is that honey is an expensive sugar to ferment. thus, people may want to get the "biggest bang for their buck". if i can buy 8 oz of honey at 3-4 bucks or "bulk" 5 lbs at 9.89 or 60 at 115...many would go for the cheaper product.

but then again, there are those who are dedicated and realize that 140 for their local beekeeper is better than 115 to some "unknown bulk corporate monster".

i also believe there is a "fair" markup for local goods. would you pay 300% more just because an item is local (all other things being equal, same pollen type/content, no antibiotics etc)? what about 150% more?

now what if the local is different (no chemicals, etc) is 300% better? 500%? i think it is a fascinating economic study.

Chevette Girl
06-19-2012, 12:44 PM
i also believe there is a "fair" markup for local goods. would you pay 300% more just because an item is local (all other things being equal, same pollen type/content, no antibiotics etc)? what about 150% more?

now what if the local is different (no chemicals, etc) is 300% better? 500%? i think it is a fascinating economic study.

Well, case in point, my 9 lb of fresh local strawberries that I picked myself for my strawberry wine last year probably cost me about $20-30... when I can get imported California strawberries for a buck a pound... although there's no comparison as to the taste, even if the CA strawberries stay good in the fridge for longer than two days.

But then again, a lot of American and Mexican produce is cheaper than local even when it's in season, which really irritates me, but I like to think that at least our farmers get paid something. Then again, we pay more for everything up here anyway. Apparently this summer, gas is supposed to go down to $1.10 per litre (that'd be $4.16/gal I think?) And we make the stuff here. Oh, and books... we still pay about 20% more for books, even when our dollars are at parity and even though most American books are printed in Canada anyway!

However, that's all corporate BS from big companies and has very little to do with anything we can change... And I will continue paying my $93/30 lb honey price to my local apiary rather than getting processed to death el-cheapo honey at the bulk store for $.50 less per lb, and I'll still buy my ever so tasty overpriced strawberries...

psuath
06-19-2012, 12:58 PM
Well, ...

However, that's all corporate BS from big companies and has very little to do with anything we can change... And I will continue paying my $93/30 lb honey price to my local apiary rather than getting processed to death el-cheapo honey at the bulk store for $.50 less per lb, and I'll still buy my ever so tasty overpriced strawberries...



50 cents cheaper is what? about 17% cheaper? or a 19% markup? so really 20% doesn't seem that bad.

but would it ever get to a point where you wouldn't buy local? what if 30 lbs was say...$450? or would you just not make mead? not saying you are right or wrong, just where your values lie. totally respectable.

the more i think about it, the more i'd love to have a more "local" economy but it won't happen because my $1 means nothing to the 20,000 other people with $1 as well.

Chevette Girl
06-19-2012, 01:11 PM
50 cents cheaper is what? about 17% cheaper? or a 19% markup? so really 20% doesn't seem that bad.

but would it ever get to a point where you wouldn't buy local? what if 30 lbs was say...$450? or would you just not make mead? not saying you are right or wrong, just where your values lie. totally respectable.

the more i think about it, the more i'd love to have a more "local" economy but it won't happen because my $1 means nothing to the 20,000 other people with $1 as well.

I never worked it out, but I suspect I could order imported cheapo honey from somewhere for cheaper than I get it at the bulk food store, and I could pay a LOT more for good honey than I do at my apiary (where I'm already getting their best price). A little 1-lb jar of a really nice local varietal honey from another nearby apiary is about $8, although I haven't talked to them yet about bulk discount because I have no money anyway.

But Mexican or US tomatoes are $.99 a pound and most of the time even the local hothouse stuff is $1.50/lb. I do my best to buy local, but I'd never taste a citrus fruit again if I were a rigid localvore. I do pay a little more for local when I can afford it. And when I can't, I get whatever I can get for whatever I have, I've still got to eat. And if 30 lbs of honey were $450, I'd go non-local, and if I couldn't do better than that, I'd either look into keeping my own bees or I'd just not make mead unless I was doing really, really well financially.

psuath
06-19-2012, 01:47 PM
I never worked it out, but I suspect I could order imported cheapo honey from somewhere for cheaper than I get it at the bulk food store, and I could pay a LOT more for good honey than I do at my apiary (where I'm already getting their best price). A little 1-lb jar of a really nice local varietal honey from another nearby apiary is about $8, although I haven't talked to them yet about bulk discount because I have no money anyway.

But Mexican or US tomatoes are $.99 a pound and most of the time even the local hothouse stuff is $1.50/lb. I do my best to buy local, but I'd never taste a citrus fruit again if I were a rigid localvore. I do pay a little more for local when I can afford it. And when I can't, I get whatever I can get for whatever I have, I've still got to eat. And if 30 lbs of honey were $450, I'd go non-local, and if I couldn't do better than that, I'd either look into keeping my own bees or I'd just not make mead unless I was doing really, really well financially.

i guess that was where i was going. we all have that set of criteria for what we love. to some, the fact they can save $0.0001 per lb of honey outweights the fact they could either keep bees at home, buy local, buy mass produced, drug polluted, whatever crap.

crazy isn't it?

Thanks CG for the lovely chat. i haven't been able to get to the forums in a long time.

dingurth
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
one of the things that has been said is that honey is an expensive sugar to ferment. thus, people may want to get the "biggest bang for their buck". if i can buy 8 oz of honey at 3-4 bucks or "bulk" 5 lbs at 9.89 or 60 at 115...many would go for the cheaper product.

but then again, there are those who are dedicated and realize that 140 for their local beekeeper is better than 115 to some "unknown bulk corporate monster".

i also believe there is a "fair" markup for local goods. would you pay 300% more just because an item is local (all other things being equal, same pollen type/content, no antibiotics etc)? what about 150% more?

now what if the local is different (no chemicals, etc) is 300% better? 500%? i think it is a fascinating economic study.

I get my honey for free. I'm restricted to clover, and it's from a corporate supplier, but when you can get 24lbs of honey FREE (as I just did for my recent batches), you're not gonna not. Amiright? ;D

wayneb
06-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Amiright? ;D

TRUTH! Almost any honey I can get for free, is good honey! ;)

Altricious
06-19-2012, 04:19 PM
I get my honey for free. I'm restricted to clover, and it's from a corporate supplier, but when you can get 24lbs of honey FREE (as I just did for my recent batches), you're not gonna not. Amiright? ;D

I think we'd all like to know the secret to this free honey you speak of.

'Cuz free stuff is great and free stuff I actually want is AWESOME.

TheAlchemist
06-19-2012, 05:31 PM
books... we still pay about 20% more for books, even when our dollars are at parity and even though most American books are printed in Canada anyway!

And I will continue paying my $93/30 lb honey price to my local apiary...

What's the story with e-books there? Is it only the tree-based books that cost more?

As for the honey, it seems to me you're getting a pretty sweet (pun intended) deal.

The Mexican/Californian fruits are bred for looks and for how well they travel. If you want a tomato that TASTES like a tomato, grow your own or get it at the farmer's market.

Chevette Girl
06-19-2012, 11:36 PM
What's the story with e-books there? Is it only the tree-based books that cost more?

As for the honey, it seems to me you're getting a pretty sweet (pun intended) deal.

The Mexican/Californian fruits are bred for looks and for how well they travel. If you want a tomato that TASTES like a tomato, grow your own or get it at the farmer's market.

Personally I hate tomatoes, and I'm happy with the tasteless ones, but I'll still go for the tasteless CANADIAN-grown hothouse crap tomatoes over the imported ones...

I'm not sure about e-books. Although I'm pretty sure I've heard of cases where the dead-tree format was cheaper than the e-format, I have never actually paid for an e-book, a friend sold me hers pre-loaded and I'm still not done reading everything I want there...

Yeah, just over $3.00 per lb isn't a bad bulk price, but I do regularly hear of people on here getting a 50 lb pail for what I pay for a 30 lb pail.

I'm just hoping that a friend of a friend who happens to have bees likes my mead enough that he'll give me honey for a % of the finished product or something, apparently he sold 50 lb to a large apiary last year. Really nice local wildflower honey, great on toast ;D

THawk
06-19-2012, 11:42 PM
one of the things that has been said is that honey is an expensive sugar to ferment. thus, people may want to get the "biggest bang for their buck". if i can buy 8 oz of honey at 3-4 bucks or "bulk" 5 lbs at 9.89 or 60 at 115...many would go for the cheaper product.

that kinda depends on where you are... You *can* get bulk honey here in the Philippines cheaply. However, most bulk honey you get at local (not supermarkets) stores is maybe 25% honey and 75% water... So where I am, I'd rather pay the price -- seeing that I'm sure what I'm fermenting is really honey.

There was even a scam here where people were selling so-called "green" honey, supposedly because it contains chlorophyll. It turned out to be sugar-water with green food coloring. :eek:

tweak'e
06-20-2012, 04:09 AM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2011/11/25/142659547/relax-folks-it-really-is-honey-after-all?ft=1&f=1001
We saw raw honey getting pumped through layers of white filters. Before the honey hit the filters, a powdered sedimentary rock called diatomaceous earth was added.............
Why do packers filter honey? Removing microscopic particles keeps the honey from crystallizing quickly.


i'll have to ask if this process is used over here.
my first thought is what an expensive unneeded operation. don't they do creamed/set honey?

dingurth
06-20-2012, 09:07 AM
I think we'd all like to know the secret to this free honey you speak of.

'Cuz free stuff is great and free stuff I actually want is AWESOME.

I have a friend who works at the dining hall on campus. They order a ton of honey, and most of it usually goes to waste. So instead of throwing it out, he just gave it to me.

Altricious
06-20-2012, 03:03 PM
I have a friend who works at the dining hall on campus. They order a ton of honey, and most of it usually goes to waste. So instead of throwing it out, he just gave it to me.

Crap. I'm 15 years too late to be raiding the campus dining hall.

wayneb
06-20-2012, 03:25 PM
Crap. I'm 15 years too late to be raiding the campus dining hall.

Hmmm... my kids can do it. Hmmm.... ;D

Altricious
06-20-2012, 03:36 PM
Hmmm... my kids can do it. Hmmm.... ;D

Wait... is that what kids are for?

Man, I guess I should have had some.

wayneb
06-20-2012, 03:38 PM
Yup! And they tote full carboys, too! ;D

Chevette Girl
06-21-2012, 12:32 AM
Wait... is that what kids are for?

Man, I guess I should have had some.

<snicker> Not me, I'll get my nephews to do it in a decade or so when they're the right age.

Altricious
06-21-2012, 09:41 AM
<snicker> Not me, I'll get my nephews to do it in a decade or so when they're the right age.

I don't have any of those either. (and I'm certainly not going to start reproducing now)

I guess I'm my own slave. That's sad. :(

Chevette Girl
06-21-2012, 10:08 AM
I guess I'm my own slave. That's sad. :(

Not really. At least you know the job will be done right! ;D

Altricious
06-21-2012, 02:56 PM
Not really. At least you know the job will be done right! ;D

I suppose, but there's no one to yell at when it's done wrong besides the dogs, and really it's not their fault.

wayneb
06-21-2012, 04:15 PM
I suppose, but there's no one to yell at when it's done wrong besides the dogs, and really it's not their fault.

Really? If the kids haven't done it, I always blame the dog! ;D

Chevette Girl
06-21-2012, 07:47 PM
I suppose, but there's no one to yell at when it's done wrong besides the dogs, and really it's not their fault.

Bah, I blame my bunny for everything. Or the car. I get a lot less lip than if I blame my husband :rolleyes: of course, he's the one with the shirt, "I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you."

hepcat
06-21-2012, 08:20 PM
Bah, I blame my bunny for everything. Or the car. I get a lot less lip than if I blame my husband :rolleyes: of course, he's the one with the shirt, "I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you."

And, I bet you do his laundry, and he still has that shirt?!?:cool:

Chevette Girl
06-21-2012, 11:51 PM
And, I bet you do his laundry, and he still has that shirt?!?:cool:

Oh, it's far worse than that. I bought him the shirt.

And we split the laundry, mostly because I generally wash very little of his stuff and I refuse to wash his undies at all, so when he runs out he HAS to put on a load, it's either that or wear the dreaded "laundry day" boxers (hates boxers). So that shirt spends a lot of time at the bottom of the pile along with his "The Rules" shirt.

Altricious
06-22-2012, 03:25 PM
Really? If the kids haven't done it, I always blame the dog! ;D

My dogs are awesome.

They only get blamed for the foul smells and the chewed up kleenex, both of which actually are their fault.

Soyala_Amaya
06-22-2012, 05:04 PM
Really? If the kids haven't done it, I always blame the dog! ;D

Be nice to the doggies! I only blame my dogs for things they've actually done, like chewing my shoes! (The latest rescue is a big chewer, and we're working on what is a chew toy and what is not. High on my list to get on his not are shoes and underwear...ew)

wayneb
06-22-2012, 06:00 PM
Oh, I'm always nice to Logan (our mostly Basenji mutt), who is one of the most intelligent dogs I've ever met. Vocal, too - which often surprises guests.

Altricious
06-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Be nice to the doggies! I only blame my dogs for things they've actually done, like chewing my shoes! (The latest rescue is a big chewer, and we're working on what is a chew toy and what is not. High on my list to get on his not are shoes and underwear...ew)

My dog outgrew the underwear thing. It's totally understandable though.

Twelve
06-28-2012, 07:50 PM
This is a great link- I learned a lot including where our local grocer``s honey is packaged.
But still, it`s worth noting that if there is a local apiary around the money spent on other things (say a corker!) might be better spent on good honey. I actually know where a lot of the hives are located and what grows in the area and can`t imagine he would filter out the pollen.
great info!