First batches questions

First things first, reading matter for the new mead maker. A good read around the bazaars as well, and you'll pick up stuff like not boiling/"pasteurising"/heating honey musts.

Cold, cool and tepid are all good.

1)Batch 1 has an odd smell, but not having done this before i dont know if this is an issue or not. it smells a bit like cider which has been left out for a couple of days. not particularly vinegary and you can smell the alcohol but yeah..smells like slightly off apple juice. No smell of burnt rubber. Is this normal?

2) Batch 2 had a kind of yeasty gunk at the top of the neck (where the foam stops). I carefully took this out with a sterilised spoon making sure not to get the spoon or the gunk in the foam or liquid. is this common?

3) at what SG/ amount of sediment should I rack for the first time? cant go by airlock bubbles as its never been more than about 1 every 20-30 seconds.

4) is it normal for it to reach 1/2 its OG in such a short space of time (5 days)?

5) does clarification happen during fermentation, or once it has finished (i.e only in secondary vessel)?

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1. you can get all sorts of funky smells during the ferment. Ones to take note of are vinegar and rotten egg (H2S). Otherwise, it's probably fine, presuming good hygiene regime for empty glass. I use CJJ's home brewed sanitiser once all the kit is washed and rinsed off - 5 crushed campden tablets and 1 teaspoon of citric acid dissolved in a pint of water - I keep this in a hand spray. Just spray everything, and then leave it to have 2 or 3 minutes contact time then just shake off/out excess.

2. you often get a yeast scum where the liquid finishes. It's not normally an issue, though you can just swirl the DJ and the moisture will take it off.

3. Don't know much of the data for Gervin yeasts. I just let it finish i.e. once I get 3 identical hydrometer readings, each one taken a few days apart. Then I rack it off the sediment, onto a crushed campden tablet and a half teaspoon of sorbate - which stabilises the batch and will prevent fermentation restarting if I add any more fermentables (which I do to back sweeten to about 1.010 - 1.015, which is where I like my meads).

Secondary fermentation isn't really a good description, as it's basically just the next stage after the primary has finished - it's not really going to ferment, but it gets the main amount off the first sediment.

It's the point where you'd want to make sure that the DJ is topped up to the bottom of the neck, to prevent oxidation.

4. It will vary from batch to batch. some finish in that time, some take longer. Properly balanced musts are what the yeasts like.

5. It can happen anywhere you want. Some people like to just rack it off the first sediment (a.k.a. gross lees) then let it do it's own thing, some just make sure it's finished and then use finings to clear it in the primary fermenter, others will do various things including trying to stop an active ferment because they've made a very high gravity must and want it to have a certain amount of residual sugars, so they'll cold crash it for 4 or 5 days to make sure that the yeast is hibernating, then rack it off any lees onto sulphites and sorbate to stabilise. Which often works.

Personally, because I find I prefer medium meads. I just make the batch, to whatever strength I want, then rack it off the lees, then stabilise, then back sweeten to my preferred level, then worry about clearing it.

Eytan said:

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checked batch 1 again this morning and found that its at 1.020 and the weird smell is gone! the fizzing is settling to barely any and i should think that by tomorrow i will be at around 1.010 - 1.005. Then I will wait a few days, rack and stabilise as you suggested and maybe add a fining chemical to speed up clarification (I want a batch done for xmas to give to my girlfriends mum, as she loves homemade stuff and alcohol!).

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the last part of the ferment is the bit that takes the longest. It's usually considered "best" to let the ferment finish by itself - the only way that it seems that you'd halt an active ferment, is to cold crash it for a week or so, then while still cold, rack it off the sediment onto the stabilising chems.

I noticed that you mentioned not heating... I did this as I had read in a few places that if you didnt pasturise, then proteins and residual wax (this honey is straight form the hive and untreated) may cause a haze in the final mead. is this not the case?

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No. If you can get hold of raw honey, bits of wax, dead bees, other hive debris either float off so you can scoop them out or they drop down with the rest of the lees. The proteins present will depend entirely on the flowers/plants that the bees visited to collect the nectar in the first place. Though honey hazing is one of the reasons I've got into the habit of letting my batches finish, then rack them off the gross lees, stabilise and then back sweeten - I like my meads at about the 1.010-1.015 area, but even then there's no telling how the ageing is gonna progress i.e. you could use a relatively harsh yeast like EC-1118 and when it's "finished" you might taste it and find it lacking in honey character and sweetness. Then 6 months, maybe a year down the road, you taste it again and it's recovered some of the honey characteristics through ageing and that there's a "perceived" sweetness that suggests you might not want to back sweeten. For the sweetness levels, I just stick to the numbers, then if (well, when really) I back sweeten, if the honey is gonna cause some hazing, it's less of an issue as I won't be bothered as I only have to clear it the once, and not find that after 6 months, it's cleared nicely, but needs back sweetening and have the batch haze up and need clearing again (whether with age or with finings).

Sorry to be a pain but a couple more small questions popped into my mind...

1) do I need to add the stabilising agent if I get to 1.000? I got the impression that unless I was back sweetening (which im not sure I am), if SG was at 1.000 and not budging over a few days then fermentation has most likely stopped... is this correct, or am I misunderstanding?

2) does adding a fining agent decrease the time until its drinkable/ nice? is it the suspended yeast particles which inhibit the full flavour, or is improvement through aging independant of the yeast falling out of solution?

Again, thank you so much for your answers and help! Im glad to have become a member of such a friendly bunch and I hope, in time, to be able to offer advice to newcomers in turn!

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using a figure of 1.000 as finished is a little arbitary. 1.000 is the gravity of just plain water, so there is a little bit of residual sugars left in the batch, that's not to say that you can taste it, but it can be measured. With natural clearing, even if the batch seems clear i.e. you can read a newspaper through it, there are still some yeast cells in there - the only way to guarantee, or as close to damn it, make sure that it can't referment, would be to "sterile" filter it. Which means filtration media with a gauge of between 0.45 micron and 0.25 micron, which means spending some £££'s. Not necessarily lots of them, but a mini-jet is gonna rush you about £150 plus, new and the finest pads are about £3 a pop.

Or if you could come up with a vacuum pump, you could just get a tandem filter housing (which are the ones that you can buy to match an enolmatic vacuum bottler). The housing is about a "ton", and the "normal" gauge filter cartridges are about £40, while the 0.25 micron one being about £80 or so.

It doesn't matter how well you've cleared it, and/or filtered it. Most young meads aren't that good. Ageing is the miracle ingredient, and even then, some meads can take years rather than months.

The only way that you're gonna be able to bribe (ok, so persuade/get in her "good books") the GF's mum, is to either try and mask the young taste, which means back sweetening and maybe some acid addition, or just giving her a bottle, that carries a label that says "not to be opened before XX/XX/XXXX"

Eytan said:

Oh and...while im here

Batch 2 has high alcohol yeast (up to 21%) in it. As I said before, it started at 1.092 SG and now is at day 5 and about half that. If i wanted to increase alcohol content, am I right in thinking that I would simply need to add more honey at this point in fermentation?

If I do this, would the current (new) SG- SG (before adding honey) + OG = the equivalent OG when working out content?

i.e difference of 0.030 would be equivalent of OG of 1.122?

Thanks again!

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Stuff doesn't have to taste like a distilled spirit to have higher than normal alcohol levels. If you want to increase it, then yes, step feed with more honey i.e. add more in increments, just don't try and bang it up out of the atmosphere, that will just stress the yeast and cause osmotic shock and probably kill off the ferment, or at least cause it too stick.

Recently, I've been making some "fresh grape pyments". I won't bore you with the details, but the initial addition of honey was 2kg, which from just the crushed grape, move the gravity from about 1.090 to 1.122, but the addition of an extra 1kg when it had dropped to about 1.060, only pushed it back up to about 1.075 (initial batch size was 25 litres of crushed/pulped grape).

Also, if you checked out a reasonably well worked out table, you'd find that a drop of 100 gravity points equates to about 13.5% ABV, whereas a drop of 133 points equates to a fraction over 18% ABV - equally, the smaller the batch, the smaller the increments of honey to add for the step feed - if you added a further 1lb to a batch that started at, say, 1.090, then a further 1lb would push the numbers up a hell of a long way, potentially giving you either a batch that might stick or even if using "normal" wine yeasts that finish at about the 18% mark, some residual sugars. I like to start a batch so it would achieve 14% easily, but then if I want to increase it, step feed incrementally, so that it will probably poop out (the yeast that is) at about 18% - honey musts have shown the ability to exceed the published figures some, maybe 1% or so, occasionally a little more.

The downside of high alcohol batches is that they either take a long time to age, or you need to back sweeten and maybe add a bit of acid to balance. Both of which help "mask" a young or high alcohol mead a bit.

I find that ageing is the best way.....

Eytan said:

Thanks for your reply chevette girl!

Really helpful and informative!

Would you add more honey in the 1st demijohn, or rack to a second before adding honey? Id be worried that the honey would sink down onto the lees otherwise...

I will definitely stabilise, as dont want an explosion!

So, is mead technically drinkable as soon as its stable? Im really aiming to age for only about a month and a half before giving some away as a gift...but dont want to give it away if its not ready to drink :/

I will try to find the calculation, as I'd like it to be around 16-18 % eventually...

Thanks again!

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I routinely add honey for step feeds to the original fermenter, but when it's got somewhere near to the 1/2 fermented level. It makes it easier to retain all the yeast, rather than losing some to the racking. Plus you can add the gravity drops together to work out the % ABV i.e. start at 1.100, add honey at 1.050, pushing it back up to say, 1.075. Then if you let it finish and achieved a finished gravity of 1.000, the total drop would be 125 points. The 100 point drop equates to 13.58% ABV, whereas the 125 point drop equates to 16.98% ABV - and yes, that example is a bit extreme IMO, but it illustrates the principle.

Yes, meads are technically drinkable as soon as they've finished fermenting, but they don't taste that good. If there's still sediment, you get a yeasty sort of taste. If you cleared it, then taste it ? well I can't actually think of any analogy to explain the taste, other than unique, but not that good. Whereas, 6 months to a year down the line and you'll find that you have a completely different result.

Eytan said:

Hi again ChevetteGirl! Glad to see you are still here and helpful as ever!

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Heh, can't get rid of me that easily ;D

Eytan said:

Batch 1: I think I tried taking a sample and mixing it with honey about a week ago. result was better, but still had a slightly bitter and acidic aftertaste, which was a bit unpleasant. The smell is quite similar to when it was fermenting, but far less sharp (Im guessing the sharpness was partly the CO2 fizz). I will try this again when I get home from work and post results later tonight.

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This is young, still, if it tastes a little better this time than last time, it's probably just an aging thing.

Eytan said:

Batches 3 and 4: I never thought about the charge of the ions! Im not too bothered about leaving it to clear on its own, rather than add a fining agent to clear it. Its more the taste Im worried about... It tastes like water and alcohol...but not really like honey! is the sharp,acidic aftertaste or the lack of flavour anything to worry about?

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How dry did these end up? It's quite common for meads, especially dry ones, to taste like not a lot for the first 6 months to a year but many meadmakers have found that the honey's character will come back at some point during that period of time. Or you can stabilize and backsweeten, that should bring some honey flavour back too. You can again try a small bit of honey in a small sample to see if this is something you'd want to do with these batches.

Eytan said:

Basically, if its not turning to vinegar Im happy. I can wait as long as it takes, but if its definitely gone beyond saving, would rather simply dump the batch and put the demijohns back to good use!

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Sharp, acidic, bitter are all valid descriptions of a young wine or mead that hasn't integrated yet, but don't sweat it unless it starts tasting like acetic acid. And if it does that, hell, let it go and you'll have some very interesting homemade vinegar! Just keep it away from any of your other meads... (don't cross-contaminate, especially plastic and rubber implements)