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bigdan110
11-16-2012, 05:19 PM
ok having a few weeks till my 1st 3 mead's need bottleing i want to plan my next batch/batches and fancy making braggot, have used the search function to death and am now sumwhat confused by it all. that combined with limited space/facilties to make a large batch i want to try several small batches. now i know i need a mix of malts for enzymes response(amalayse?)

for the bulk i was planning on using

140EBC uncrushed crystal malt (will crush myself)
1100EBC milled chocolate malt

i was also looking to use rachmualt and special b and finnished with a bit of fuggles. what i was really wanting to know is how much would i need to use for each 1 IMP gallon batch and how increasing the amounts or changeing the ratio/boil time would change the carecter of the braggot? was also toying with the idea of adding friut to the mix.

i will most likely not start this untill after new year and want to have a complete(ish) recipe to toy with.

thanks again...... and please correct me if im wrong about anything still a lot to learn :confused:

akueck
11-16-2012, 07:31 PM
Well, crystal, chocolate, and Special B malts are all kilned high enough to destroy the enzymes. So you can just soak those in water and not worry about mash temperatures, enzymes, conversion, or anything. Rauchmalt does need to be mashed, however, and I'd recommend using some pale or pils malt along with it to make sure you do have enough enzymes.

How much, how long, etc all really depends on what you want. The crystal malt will give you sweetness, caramel flavors, and some body. The chocolate malt will give you color and roasted flavors. Special B is known for raisiny notes. And rauch will obviously be smoky.

bigdan110
11-17-2012, 01:35 AM
would vienna/munich fit the bill for enzymes ? always liked the octoberfest type beers so this could be good ? think you hit the nail on the head with your post.want something with a nice sweet caremel/chocolaty malty balence with a bit of smoke and fruit behind it.

did i read that right that the crystal/choco/spec b just need to be soaked ? would this be a no boil soak or am i jumping the gun abit?

mainly the boil/mash thats confuseing me :confused: still have to pick yeast/honey any suggestions that would suit this ?

akueck
11-17-2012, 01:34 PM
The boil is more for the hops than the malts. (It also removes water, but since you're adding honey that is less an issue.) Boiling isomerizes the alpha acids in the hops and makes them water-soluble. This gives you the bitterness from the hops.

The crystal and heavy-kilned malts do not need to be mashed. Crystal malt (Special B is a kind of crystal malt) is pre-converted in the husk, so a simple soak will extract the sugars. Chocolate malt is basically burnt, so there isn't much in the way of sugar or starch left. (There are some carbohydrates in there, just not a lot.) Mainly you use that kind of malt for color/flavor, so again you're just in need of some warm water.

Vienna and Munich you need to mash. They'll self-convert, but I'd not put more than about 10% other grains in that mash since these malts are not that full of enzymes. Pale or Pils malt can usually handle more like 20-25% other starches in the mash and still get full conversion in a reasonable length of time.

Rauch malt goes a long way, IMO, so use a light hand. ;)

If you want there to be honey character to compete with all of those other flavors, it better be a ballsy honey. Buckwheat, avocado, mesquite, or a nice dark wildflower could do. Manzanita honey, if you can find it, is pretty fun, like a mesquite but more spicy.

Yeast...I'd suggest something simple. California or American ale yeasts, maybe K1V if you want to go wine yeast. If you're feeling wacky a saison-type yeast would be very interesting in this sort of mix, but I'd suggest ignoring me on that one for now.

For lots of info on mashes, boiling, hops, yeast and whatnot, check out howtobrew.com.

bigdan110
11-17-2012, 06:15 PM
so from what ive been reading i need to steep the crystal/chocolate/spec b to basicly make an extract? and mash vienna/munich+pilsner/pale with a little bit of ruachmult then add the two together add hops and boil ?

akueck
11-17-2012, 06:38 PM
If you're going to do a mash, you can go ahead and throw the crystal/chocolate malts in there while you're at it. If you're space-limited, you can steep them separately. Otherwise, that's pretty much the idea.

bigdan110
11-18-2012, 03:22 AM
ok think i understand this better now would i be correct in thinking i could use equal amounts of munich/vienna/and pills as the base malts? from what i understand munich/vienna will convert themselvs leaving the pills to convert the rachmult and anything left over,and the crystal/chocolate/spec b dont need converting? read something interesting on using rachmult and spec b suggesting a 60/40 ratio on that basis would these amounts work for a 1 imp gallon test batch ?

base malts
1/4lbs munich
1/4lbs vienna
1/4lbs pills
+
4oz crystal
3oz chocolate
2oz rachmalt/spec b @60/40 ratio

1 hour mash for base malts rest added in for 30 mins to steep in with the mash then ??oz?fuggles 15mins boil ?

bigdan110
11-18-2012, 01:15 PM
ok time to start thinking about honey.dont want to go down the shop route so will be getting some honey in bulk for my other meads from paynes bee farm. for this i i was thinking of exsperimenting with a few different honeys. have allready used there OB and lime blossoms honeys and am happy to buy these again.

looking at the stronger flavoured honeys avialble i ahve a chioce of mexican,greek,new zealend wilf forest and rewarewa(new zealand honeysukle) and tasmanian leatherwood honeys availble atm. not having tried any of these im unsure as to how they would stand up to the other flavours anyone tried any of these either on toast or for brewing ?

akueck
11-18-2012, 08:17 PM
You can leave the crystal/chocolate malt in the mash for the full hour, no need to add them separately. Actually the dark malts can help stabilize the pH of the mash. That grain bill sounds fine.

Rewarewa honey is delicious. The floral tones might get a bit lost in that mix, but it does have a pretty robust flavor from what I remember and it might go well. Haven't had the other ones though.

15 minutes of boiling is non-standard, but that's probably fine. I'd say go for 1/4 oz and see what happens.

bigdan110
11-22-2012, 05:03 PM
whilst looking around for info i noticed that the sparge can/has been used to make a low gravity beer just wondered if anyone has ever tryed this for a low grav braggot ?

i was going to do the mash in a grain bag remove it and sparge in another pan . given the lack of fermentables that would be in the sparge would this be worth useing for a low gravity braggot or would the honey overpower any beer flavour ?would i be right in thinking this would be drinkable sooner ? im up for a little exsperimenting

also on a side note i tried some left over frozen must (rassberry sack mel) from my 3rd rack with some beer and was quite happy with the resaults have any of u out there tried a braggot with fruit and had good resaults?

akueck
11-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Sounds like you're talking using second runnings as a separate beer? Yep, that's done and it's called partigyle. It will have less malt sugars in it, otherwise all the same rules apply.

bigdan110
11-23-2012, 02:55 PM
aha! knew there must be a proper name for it other than small beer. sounds like this would be good for playing with for a lower grav braggot. from what ive read even the hops have been reused with the sparge for this so might replicate the final recipe scaled down to match the abvP end up with 2 braggots with greatly different abvs. is there anyway to calculate the gravity that the second runnings would leave ?

akueck
11-23-2012, 09:30 PM
I'm not sure if there are calculators for partigyle mashes, but I'd bet you might be able to scrounge one up. It will depend on how much water you use for the sparge, obviously, and the gravity of your first runnings. You might just need to measure it and see how it goes.

Medsen Fey
11-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Partigyle...

You learnt me a new word Aaron- Thanks!

bigdan110
11-24-2012, 03:04 AM
right i might beef up the grain bill slightly then and try and aim for a poorer mash so as the sparge has something to it. as im only doing a short boil for these would the hops be good to be reused or would i be better using more fresh hops ?

i think ill use 2lbs of honey for the braggot and 1lbs maybe less for the
partigyle-braggot

as for yeast im still undecided as to what would be suitable. i would want to take these dry would i be right in thinking there would be residual unfermentables left in this ?i also want to prime and bottle carb.

akueck
11-24-2012, 09:11 AM
First runnings definitely don't take out all the sugars in the mash. I've been lazy measuring lately, but when I did I think I remember getting like 1.060 from the first run and 1.025 from the second, and that was for a small beer.

bigdan110
12-05-2012, 11:02 PM
been reading up on malt n beer brewing and specifics on gravity point calculations. now from what ive worked out from john palmers website from a quick working out of 1lb4ozish of malt based on the info from the site the avereged out malt scores are about 30gp per pound per gallon at (85%) eficiency . so giving my 1lb 4oz id be at 35ish points if i hit 85% the only thing is i cant find any info in this to sugest if this is just first runnings and/or combined with the sparge. ?

now given thet i want to do a braggot and a pari-gyle-braggot probly aiming for 12-13%(2lbs-honey) braggot and 7%(1lbs-honey) partigyle-braggot would i need to up the grainbill or am i overthinking a bit ?

on a side note am also considering making a 2gallon combined batch and watering it down to parti-gyle levels and make 2 1gallon fruit/partigyle-braggots with 1Lb fruit split into pri/sec. could i just use the same amount of grain again and just use more water to mash 3/4gallon and 1-1/4gallon to sprage ?

bigdan110
02-17-2013, 04:28 PM
just tried my first sample of what i made based on this recipe . the sample was the beer i poured of from my yeast starter, the starter was from the base wort i was using for the braggot prior to adding honey/fruit.

now the strange thing was it tastes very simaler to guinnes. for my first all grain batch i am very shocked.am i weird for drinking something people normaly throw away? anyone else do this ?

akueck
02-17-2013, 08:50 PM
You'll see folks toss the starter beer into the main batch, especially if the starter is very similar to the main batch wort. Some folks will use a small beer batch as a "very large starter" before making a big beer, and then of course they'll bottle and taste it. So, it varies. ;D

bigdan110
02-17-2013, 09:16 PM
interesting , got some 2 liter jugs for starters/test bathces so i could make starters+ have yeast left over yeast to harvest from low abv wort/must so i can just dump my yeast cake as and wen i want, plus i red something about using krusen as an aid in priming so thought the extra starter wort cold crashed for a week or two till my beer/mead was done would leave me with acclimatised yeast for priming :D sorry about mt speeling :occasion14:

bigdan110
02-17-2013, 09:41 PM
just a heads up i have been pulling most the beer off the starters so just the cake plus a little beer are left before crashing in sealed jugs.

would i be right in thinking i could just pitch new wort on the cake to create another starter or just use the slurry for another batch ?

the original starter i did was because i was shipped an expired pack of munich yeast ....... that and i wanted a comparison to dry and liquid yeast wp300. so i did 2 starters for 2 simaler batches trying to get the banana esters. no banana atm lots of sulfer so far ....

akueck
02-18-2013, 04:20 PM
Sure, you can pitch onto the old cake, or harvest the slurry and pitch that. I do that fairly frequently, works great. Generally you want to stay below 8 generations or so to avoid drift of the culture.