PDA

View Full Version : JAO ready to bottle?



slackcub
11-18-2012, 02:26 PM
got a question for you folks. The JAO I have has finally cleared, but when I shine a flash light through it, I'm noticing some VERY tiny air bubbles/particulate rising from the lees, and none of the fruit has fallen. Am I still experiencing fermentation? Can I safely bottle, or will I end up with a whole bunch of carbonating time bombs in my closet. Thanks for the info!

GDP
11-18-2012, 02:38 PM
The only way to tell for sure is secsessive hydrometer reading and it doesnt fall between reading. I would say wait a little longer but it could just be residual co2.

fatbloke
11-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Just follow the recipe guidance and wait for the fruit to drop.

Just because its clearing, doesn't mean all fermentation has ended.

Chevette Girl
11-18-2012, 04:52 PM
And speaking from experience, bubbles rising from the bottom DOES most likely mean there's still some fermentation happening. I always wait for the fruit to drop, personally.

slackcub
11-19-2012, 02:14 AM
Thanks for the info folks! I guess my impatience is getting the best of me ;} I'll be good and wait some more. It's already been almost 7 weeks, guess I can't wait a bit more!

kudapucat
11-19-2012, 06:21 AM
If you have it inside, the fruit may never drop.
Once it's clear, still and stable, wait until you get bored and frustrated, then put it in the garage. If the fruit drops over night, yep it was ready, else: you'd best keep waiting.

Intheswamp
11-19-2012, 10:27 AM
If you have it inside, the fruit may never drop.
Once it's clear, still and stable, wait until you get bored and frustrated, then put it in the garage. If the fruit drops over night, yep it was ready, else: you'd best keep waiting.

For us folks living "up yonder" I believe it is late spring to early summer in your neck of the woods. Does the inside/outside factor relate to temperatures being cooler inside the house and warmer outside?

Thanks,
Ed

kudapucat
11-19-2012, 10:32 AM
No. Cooler outside.
We're a fair ways south (equivalent of your north) 38 south.
We still have very cool evenings, even in spring.
The 38th parallel goes through the following states:
California
Nevada
Utah
Colorado
Kansas
Missouri
Illinois
Indiana
Kentucky
West Virginia
Virginia

Intheswamp
11-19-2012, 12:38 PM
So the cooling helps to knock loose any CO2 bubbles clinging to the fruit?

Ed

Chevette Girl
11-19-2012, 01:03 PM
Actually I think why it works that way is it increases the amount of CO2 the must can hold so it absorbs the CO2 from the fruit which is what keeps it floating. It might float again once it was warmed up if there is still fermentation happening because it creates more CO2 that sticks to the fruit and makes it buoyant again, I had that happen this summer with the Sima I made for my in-laws.

As I see it after applying my brewing knowledge to the JAO recipe, the general rules that apply to JAO (that we usually determine with SG for any other batch) are:

When it clears, the yeast is done its job, is no longer active enough to wiggle around enough to stay in suspension and so it starts settling out. But they can still do their job from the bottom of the carboy, so you may still see bubbles rising from the lees from the few hardy yeast cells that may have a slightly higher alcohol tolerance than its parents and siblings.



When the fruit drops, it should be completely degassed and generally safe to bottle because the must has absorbed all the CO2 from the fruit and released it to the headspace, although I usually rack it and let it sit around for another month because I have had a few variations on JAO make bubbles after bottling.

By cold-crashing it, you artificially decrease yeast activity, which makes them drop out of suspension, but sometimes by warming them up they'll reactivate so it's best to rack off the sediment as soon as you plan to start warming the batch up again if you were planning to stabilize it so then there are fewer yeast cells for the chemicals to deal with so a better chance of the sulphites and sorbate working. But if you weren't going to stabilize, and the batch was actually done fermenting, the fruit should stay sunk because it'll be easier for the CO2 that becomes too much for the solution to hold to escape to the headspace rather than back into the fruit, unless fermentation kicks up again, in which case your fruit might well float again as more CO2 is produced. This is my conjecture, I could be incorrect and the CO2 may well use the fruit pieces as a nucleation point and cause it to float again briefly until it reaches an equilibrium once everything's warmed up, then it should sink again, like putting a raisin in a glass of ginger-ale, it will float for a while and then should sink once the carbonation's gone. Swirling it around to release any bubbles building on the fruit won't break the warranty any more than cold crashing or stabilizing it would.

kudapucat
11-19-2012, 03:52 PM
Cooling it also changes the buoyancy

Chevette Girl
11-19-2012, 04:03 PM
Yeah but I'm pretty sure that cooling makes it more dense (cold decreases the volume) which would make things more likely to float (hydrometer floats higher in high-grav musts), so this sinking fruit thing goes counter to specific gravity theory...

theEnvoy
11-19-2012, 04:10 PM
Chevette Girl, I'm making your Blackberry JAOM. Can I expect these Blackberries to sink to the bottom also? They look pretty bouyant!

Chevette Girl
11-19-2012, 04:21 PM
Yeah, they always sink for me, but I'm not too sure of the time frame, might take a little longer than a JAO. Start a brewlog, I'd love to hear how others are doing with my recipe!

theEnvoy
11-19-2012, 04:23 PM
Will do it. Looking and smelling beautiful!

kudapucat
11-20-2012, 12:51 AM
Yeah but I'm pretty sure that cooling makes it more dense (cold decreases the volume) which would make things more likely to float (hydrometer floats higher in high-grav musts), so this sinking fruit thing goes counter to specific gravity theory...

So very correct!
And I call myself an engineer! Where's my critical thinking now?

slackcub
11-22-2012, 12:34 PM
Just thought I'd give an update. I decided to give it a good shake Tuesday night, and I'm still waiting for it to clear up again. No airlock activity, though, so I'm guessing I just need to wait some more. Some of the raisins have fallen now. Guess it's just a waiting game at this point.

I do have a question, though. I have noticed that the liquid level is a lot lower than when I had initially topped it off. I know I would risk kick starting fermentation, but what would be the harm in adding some more water?

Chevette Girl
11-22-2012, 02:44 PM
If it kicks up again, you'll just have to be patient... contrary to normal wine and mead theory, having headspace in a JAO isn't the end of the world, I've left some with inches of headspace for months (in one case a year) with no bad effects. I think the sweetness protects it from oxidation, or at least that's my best guess.

RIC0
12-24-2012, 08:32 AM
What should JAO's ABV% be around???

I've got a bottle that's 2 months old and fermentation has slowed down to almost a stop as in no release thru the airlock at all that I can tell.

OG = 1.096 Current reading is 1.064 which seems pretty high still...:confused:

The taste of this stuff is unreal good...:eek:

kudapucat
12-24-2012, 09:10 AM
That's crazy high. 1.096 should go dry.
I'm guessing it's stalled.
BUT
It tastes good, and dry JAO does not.
Throw it in the fridge.
Let it clear.
Rack onto sorbate and sulphate to make sure it doesn't kick off.
Enjoy your JAO-hydromel. About 4% ABV.
Just my 2c as the clock ticks over 24:00 and we all cry out: Merry Christmas!

RIC0
12-24-2012, 09:31 AM
I had it in my fermentation cellar which is a constant 68 room temp the entire time and it never stopped until now.

Not sure but it's super sweet, not dry and friggon delicious to be honest.

Making up 2 more batches this week.

Still got 3 gallons of different stuff going ta boot.

fatbloke
12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
I had it in my fermentation cellar which is a constant 68 room temp the entire time and it never stopped until now.

Not sure but it's super sweet, not dry and friggon delicious to be honest.

Making up 2 more batches this week.

Still got 3 gallons of different stuff going ta boot.
I've never bothered about taking a start gravity with JAO but have read people quoting like 1.130 or so (don't know if that includes a guesstimate for the sugars in the orange or not) and a finished gravity in the 1.030 to 1.040 sort of range - which is "dessert mead" sweet (not to my preference I like it less sweet than that).

kudapucat
12-24-2012, 06:09 PM
@FB. 1130 is the honey water added to the spices and orange.
The original recipe calls for 1150 or more.

kudapucat
12-24-2012, 06:11 PM
I had it in my fermentation cellar which is a constant 68 room temp the entire time and it never stopped until now.

Not sure but it's super sweet, not dry and friggon delicious to be honest.

Making up 2 more batches this week.

Still got 3 gallons of different stuff going ta boot.

RIC0, my fear is its stalled.
It should not have stopped so soon.
Take steps to ensure it doesn't start up a again in the bottle.

Your starting gravity was much too low for a JAO. (unless you meant 1195 in which case it's quite high, and no wonder it's stopped at 1065 or higher)