Lazy Yeast

AngryViking · Dec 20, 2012

Hello shiny happy meady people. I've been having problems with my first attempt at mead and google keeps sending me your way. I'm really hoping I didn't colossally mess up here. I used a basic recipe with some chemical additions as suggested by the owner of the local homebrew shop.

15 pounds of honey
5 gallons of water
5 crushed campden tabs
1.5 tsp tannin
9 tsp tartaric acid
18 tsp malic acid
1 packet of lalvin EC-1118 yeast

I waited a day per the instructions before pitching the yeast. I rehydrated the yeast the instructions on the yeast packet and after 72 hours I saw no signs of fermentation. I then pitched a second pack of yeast in, dry, per the shop owner and bought a hydrometer against his advice. While the yeast seemed a little busier this time and hung out on top my SG is still at 1.1 72 hours since this second pitching.

I'm tempted to perhaps rack and pitch yet again. I'm also worried it's all the tabs and acids that are the problem.

Room temperature is 70, as is the mead per the temp strip.

Golddiggie · Dec 21, 2012

IMO, the acid was unnecessary and possibly harmful. Get some PH test strips (for wine should be good) and get a reading on the must. You want above a PH of 3.2. You should also only need a single packet of EC-1118 for ~5 gallons of must (or even 6).

I wouldn't rack again, but I would get some yeast energizer and/or nutrient (Fermaid, Fermax) and hit the must with the recommended dosage (typically 1tsp/gallon of must)...

I would also look over the newbee guides on these forums to see how to properly start a mead. IMO, the guy from the LHBS is giving you either really dated methods, or he's really a grape wine maker and doesn't know much about making mead. Once you get the mead to start fermenting, you'll probably have it go to very dry, and not have much honey flavor/aroma left in it (nature of the beast when you use EC-1118 in a must with that OG).

I do suspect that the acid, and other chemicals, you added are the source of your issues. I've never used tannin or acid in any of my meads and have never had an issue with them not taking off within a normal amount of time.

fatbloke · Dec 21, 2012

Well reading the op and GD's posts, I suspect GD has hit the nail on the head, though I'd suspect that the sulphites as well. There's no need to hit honey musts with campden tablets.

So I'd guess its stunned the yeast as there's no guarantee that they'll dissipate in 24 hours. Yes they will dissipate but 24 hours is a guide/guesstimate.

Hence the lagging being increased some.

Personally I'd just aerate the hell out of it at least once a day for a couple of days as that's likely to help it kick in......

AngryViking · Dec 21, 2012

Ok, so what's the rescue plan here? Obviously however well meaning I'm not listening to the homebrew guy again. Do I just stir a lot or add yeast energizer/nutrient too? And no new yeast?

Vance G · Dec 21, 2012

Just re-read fat blokes comments and consider doing what he suggested. Give the yeast inhibiting substance a chance to dissipate. Wait a couple days and see if you don't get some action.

Medsen Fey · Dec 21, 2012

I suspect your issue is that you added a massive dose of acid, and the pH of your must is probably so low it is stalling the yeast. Either get a pH meter or some test strips for wine that have the range from 3.0 to 4.0 covered. If your reading is coming in at 3.0 or lower, then you'll need to add potassium bicarbonate (or carbonate) or calcium carbonate to get the pH above 3.2 and then the yeast will be able to function.

EC-1118 is a strong yeast that can tolerate low pH well, and they may gradually be able to multiply enough to get fermentation going in your must, but it won't be a vigorous, healthy fermentation.

Also, have you double checked your gravity reading? 15 pound plus 5 gallons of water won't give a gravity reading of 1.172.

Intheswamp · Dec 21, 2012

Medsen, I think the OP meant that the SG was 1.100...72 hours after the last pitch.

Ed

Intheswamp · Dec 21, 2012

AV, did you rehydrate your yeast for the first pitch? Did you use something like Go-Ferm to help the yeast get off to a good start?

Ed

AngryViking · Dec 21, 2012

MF, you might be right about the sg. It was sitting at 1.1, I went to grab my camera to make sure and it was at 1.13 if I'm reading it right.
Swamp, no I put it in dry and didn't add anything additional.
Due to me apparently not knowing how to use a hydrometer I may wait a few more days and take a few additional readings. But visibly nothing is happening. No bubbles in the airlock at all, which I know isn't an exact indication, but yeah.

AngryViking · Dec 21, 2012

Swamp, sorry yes the FIRST pitch was rehydrated. The second one wasn't.

Golddiggie · Dec 21, 2012

Look for bubbles on the surface of what's in the fermenter. You might need to shine a light on an angle across the surface to see them. That can be your first indication that you've got life in there.

AngryViking · Dec 21, 2012

Can you use both energizer and nutrient? And how much energizer do you use?

Golddiggie · Dec 21, 2012

AngryViking said:
Can you use both energizer and nutrient? And how much energizer do you use?

You can, you just use the recommended dosage levels. How much depends on the must volume. It also depends on if you're going to give it ALL the nutrients at once, or do a stepped program.

AngryViking · Dec 21, 2012

I'd probably do it all at the same time. The nutrient has dosage levels, the energizer does not.

Golddiggie · Dec 21, 2012

Typically energizer is 1/2 tsp per gallon of must. Nutrient (not DAP) is 1 tsp per gallon of must. Typically that is.

Medsen Fey · Dec 21, 2012

If your energizer is one like Fermaid K, Wyeast nutrient blend, Fermax, or other similar product that looks like tan powder and is composed of a combination if DAP and autolyzed yeast, you may have better results if you use more energizer and less DAP.

So 1 tsp energizer and 1/2 tsp DAP per gallon is recommend more often. That works out to be about 200-250 ppm YAN which will work for most regular strength fermentations.

However, we typically suggest getting a scale as it is far more consistent to go by weight. A tsp of energizer is about 4g and a tsp of DAP is closer to 5g

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

AngryViking · Dec 22, 2012

I put the recommended dosage of nutrient and energizer in yesterday afternoon. It's clinking away now, not a jackhammer but it seems promising. Not a lot of foam, but maybe that's normal?

fatbloke · Dec 22, 2012

AngryViking said:
I put the recommended dosage of nutrient and energizer in yesterday afternoon. It's clinking away now, not a jackhammer but it seems promising. Not a lot of foam, but maybe that's normal?

Well, whatever the actual problem was, whether it was the high amount of acid you indicated using or the campden/sulphite needing more time to dissipate or whatever, if it's fermenting away now, that's good.

Just keep an eye on it though, what with the amount of acid you quoted and that meads do show quite wild pH swings during the fermentation, you should keep checking the pH level at least once a week with either a pH meter or wine range litmus paper test strips. It wants to be above about 3.0 with the "apparent" sweet spot being at about 3.4 pH.

Don't worry about a lack of foaming, it's not a beer and some yeast/honey combo's don't show much foaming anyway.....

Golddiggie · Dec 22, 2012

fatbloke said:
Well, whatever the actual problem was, whether it was the high amount of acid you indicated using or the campden/sulphite needing more time to dissipate or whatever, if it's fermenting away now, that's good.

Just keep an eye on it though, what with the amount of acid you quoted and that meads do show quite wild pH swings during the fermentation, you should keep checking the pH level at least once a week with either a pH meter or wine range litmus paper test strips. It wants to be above about 3.0 with the "apparent" sweet spot being at about 3.4 pH.

Don't worry about a lack of foaming, it's not a beer and some yeast/honey combo's don't show much foaming anyway.....

Unless you degas/aerate it...

Then, if you don't have a large enough vessel, have a damp towel ready to cleanup with after (you, the floor, the wall, maybe the ceiling)...

;D

AngryViking · Dec 23, 2012

By the way, just wanted to thank you guys. It's been bubbling away since I added the nutrients and energizer. Happy little yeast

I'd of just had honey juice if I didn't stop by.

Lazy Yeast

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