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View Full Version : JAOM Varaition, no fermentation from the outset



Andyox
02-21-2013, 05:51 PM
Hi,

I would appreciate some help with a JOAM variation (Hangs head in shame).

I have made this variation before (UK Sourced ingredients), but with different honey:

Everything sterilised and cleaned.

3 1/2 lbs Blossom Honey (From http://www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/honey-in-bulk/blossom-honey/)
1 Large orange, washed and cut into segments
25 Raisins
1 stick of cinnamon
2 whole cloves
1 Teaspoon allinsons bread yeast (http://www.allinsonflour.co.uk/products/dried-active-yeast.html)
1 Gallon Filtered Tap Water

So, my problem -

Day two since everything was stuck into the demijohn, and the airlock is not showing any bubbling at all.

The demijohn is in a dark area and the room is pretty much 20-22 degrees constantly.

As this is a JAOM I havent fiddled with adding more yeast or a nutrient etc., figured I would check with gotmeaders first :)

Last time I made a JAOM I used simple waitrose honey and that worked out okay, so I'm a bit stumped as to what I should do next with this JAOM ?

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Andy

Meldin
02-21-2013, 06:10 PM
I'll happily defer to someone who's been around longer than I have, but as long as you're seeing activity in the DJ itself, you should be fine. Look for bubbling and/or fizziness inside the vessel, at the top. Airlocks can't always be trusted to show signs of fermentation.

kudapucat
02-21-2013, 06:44 PM
IMHO, if you can't get Flieshmann's yeast, there's no need to call it a JAOv.

I'm wondering, are you using imperial units? (Shouldn't make a difference, just wondering)

What's it look like? Is it foaming? Is it all one colour? has any yeast settled out on the bottom?
I would say your yeast is dead. What temp did you pitch it at? How do you store your yeast? Was the packet opened? In the cupboard, fridge, freezer? Assuming you're in the northern hemisphere, I assume the yeast hasn't been ab;e to bake anywhere, in transport or in the cupboard.

I also assume you didn't rehydrate the yeast - I'd probably recommend rehydrating if you're repitching, there's a much higher viable cell count if you do.

If you see no activity at all (disregard the airlock as Meldin suggested) then I would consider repitching the yeast.
you could repitch 3 or 4 times without worrying your brew.

Also, check it with a Hydrometer, my first JAO finished in 4 days or something ridiculous. - Never had that happen again since.


The other thing is too: if the yeast has a low live-cell-count then it will have a much longer lag phase. Give it another 48 hours to see what happens.

Andyox
02-21-2013, 07:25 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

The contents of the demijohn is just a golden liquid, looks like the yeast is on the bottom of the demijohn. The surface of the contents is completely still - no bubbling or fizzing.

Pitched in at 21/22 degrees, yeast was in a can with a seal, last used about 6 months ago, stored in a cupboard in the kitchen, so temp pretty much around 20-21-22 degrees. The yeast hasnt been able to bake, no such luck getting good temperatures here in this part of the UK :)

I'll try repitching after rehydration after another 48 hours as you suggest.

If still no joy then, do I throw this batch away or can I strain the contents into a new demijohn and try again ? (Thinking of saving that must in there)

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

Andy

kudapucat
02-21-2013, 09:54 PM
Don't throw it away. There's a reason it wont start. That reason can be fixed
Get a hydrometer reading
get a pH reading if you can

as a test, mix up a cup of sugar water and pitch some yeast. cover it with gladwrap. if it bulges, your yeast is OK.
6 months in the cupboard is not great, it's condensation that's your biggest worry, water condenses, and then temps of 15C+ can wake it up, find no food and die.
I keep all my yeast refrigerated, and my bread yeast in the freezer.


Oh, and taste a sample.

Grimm312
02-21-2013, 11:22 PM
This may turn out as shit advise, but did you shake/stir the must after you added the must?

My first 2 musts were pretty slow to start, so I gave them a shake (after about 24 hours) and they started within the hour. With my 2nd and 3rd I shook them straight after adding the yeast and they took off within the hour as well.

kudapucat
02-22-2013, 12:22 PM
This may turn out as shit advise, but did you shake/stir the must after you added the must?

My first 2 musts were pretty slow to start, so I gave them a shake (after about 24 hours) and they started within the hour. With my 2nd and 3rd I shook them straight after adding the yeast and they took off within the hour as well.

If the yeast have settled out as he says: this can't hurt.
I really want confirmation that it truly is stuck, and not just slow or finished.

Chevette Girl
02-23-2013, 01:30 AM
Given your description, my first suspect up against the wall would be the 6 month old yeast... I agree with trying to proof some of it in sugar water... if that starts foaming, pitch it in!

I too always keep my yeast refrigerated.

I also second the "don't throw it out" sentiment. Maybe all it'll take is a new packet/jar of bread yeast. And even if you have to try something else, I'd just add it to your demijohn as is, I wouldn't bother straining it out.

If you DO end up giving it some wine yeast if repitching with new bread yeast fails, just choose something with a kill factor like K1V-1116 and you won't have to worry about any internal yeast vs. yeast conflicts, as long as you get it racked within a couple of months, you probably won't have any problems with there already being bread yeast in there.

Andyox
02-23-2013, 06:12 AM
Hi,

I added the yeast to some water, no action.

So I got some new bread yeast, added a teaspoon of that to the demijohn and overnight it is bubbling once every ten seconds or so.

New yeast is now in the fridge.

The old yeast is sitting on the bottom and I think some on the top of the liquid -some photos showing what I mean:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/23/vyneme6y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/23/suhypanu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/23/ne8ysyre.jpg

So, it looks like dead yeast was the problem, thanks everyone :)

Andy

kudapucat
02-23-2013, 06:35 AM
Excellent!
Don't ditch the crappy yeast, it makes great nutrient.