Opinions on a Bochet I'm starting. Questions too.

randomguy18840 · Mar 15, 2013

Been lurking around the forums for quite some time now. Currently have 2 gallons aging and another 3 gallons of different melomels fermenting, 1 gallon of joes quick pyment, 2 gallons of hydromels, and 5 gallons of skeeter pee fermenting.

Here is the recipe for a Bochet I was working on (actually the honey is currently in my crock pot, and sanitizer mix in bucket).

4 Cups of honey (2 pounds) (2 cups orange blossom, 1 cup wildflower, and 1 cup clover. all unfiltered, raw).
Lalvin D-47 (also have K1-V1116, and 71B-1122 available if those might be better?)
Yeast nutrient, energizer (not sure on amounts yet)
water to 1 1/4 gallon (going for 1.075 ish OG 10% alcohol)
64oz Strawberry Banana Juicy Juice (comes out to half a pound of sugar total)
Wine tannin ( also not sure on amount).

I'm wondering if the strawberry banana juice would even go well with a bochet. (never had a bochet before. not really sure exactly what to expect. I have the juice sitting here unopened. thought it might be interesting).
Also trying to get opinions on how much energizer, nutrient, and tannin to use).

Thanks for any help, opinions.

-Tyler

Marshmallow Blue · Mar 15, 2013

I haven't fudged around with any fruit bochets, But CAL has a Joes Varient bochet with oranges in it. You may want to try PMing him. My bochet is rich, deep and smokey so I'd be aiming for more earthy notes like Oak, coffee, Chocolate, or vanilla. But I also cooked mine to near blackness.

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with using fruit as the wild world of mead is only limited by our imaginations. And the only way to find out things people haven't tried is to try it.

randomguy18840 · Mar 15, 2013

I think I might give it a try. I mean it can't turn out horrible I don't think. Haven't mixed anything up yet. The whole house smells like honey right now from the crock pot

It is turning very dark. Would D-47 go well with this? My brew room bounces between 68 and 70. If need be I can keep it at 68, I've heard D-47 likes things a bit cooler. If so how much energizer and nutrient should I aim for? And how about the tannin?

Marshmallow Blue · Mar 15, 2013

I think 70 is actually one Fahrenheit over D47s "Tolerence", but even if it is fermenting I think it can make off flavors when you get near the top of it with D47 in particular. I would pass on the D47 unless you can get your fermentation temps (fermentation temps are higher than room temp because of yeast activity) in the mid to low 60s. However D47 is supposed to be good for fruity stuff.

Meldin · Mar 15, 2013

Marshmallow Blue said:
I think 70 is actually one Fahrenheit over D47s "Tolerence", but even if it is fermenting I think it can make off flavors when you get near the top of it with D47 in particular. I would pass on the D47 unless you can get your fermentation temps (fermentation temps are higher than room temp because of yeast activity) in the mid to low 60s. However D47 is supposed to be good for fruity stuff.

In that case, how accurate is the Yeast Table, over on the sidebar? It lists the temp range for D-47 as being 50F to 86F.

Marshmallow Blue · Mar 15, 2013

I was going by lalvins site which has 15 to 20 Celsius which google says is 59 to 68F

WVMJack · Mar 15, 2013

Tyler, juicy juice? Really? I think you would be better off making a straight up Bochet and enjoy that taste by itself and not put juicy juice in it. Or, even just using straight apple cider and make a bochet cyser instead of juicy juice (isnt that stuff for kids mostly reconstituted apple juice??) If you were to use real fruit it might be much better than juicy juice. WVMJ

Meldin · Mar 15, 2013

Marshmallow Blue said:
I was going by lalvins site which has 15 to 20 Celsius which google says is 59 to 68F

Yeesh, just a little bit of a difference there, but I'd go with Lalvin's site as well.

WVMJack said:
Tyler, juicy juice? Really? I think you would be better off making a straight up Bochet and enjoy that taste by itself and not put juicy juice in it. Or, even just using straight apple cider and make a bochet cyser instead of juicy juice (isnt that stuff for kids mostly reconstituted apple juice??) If you were to use real fruit it might be much better than juicy juice. WVMJ

Yeah, I'd be a bit concerned about that as well. The ingredient list, per juicyjuice.com, for their Strawberry Banana juice is; Apple Juice, Pear Juice, Grape Juice, Strawberry Juice (Water and Juice Concentrates), Natural Flavors, Banana Puree, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Citric Acid.

Without knowing what those "natural flavors" are, or what proportion of acid they use (by volume, much less what mol the acid is at before being added to the solution), not to mention not knowing how the apple, pear, and grape juice is going to play out in the must, I really don't think I'd use a blend like that. But - and it's a big but - it's not my mead.

Medsen Fey · Mar 15, 2013

Meldin said:
In that case, how accurate is the Yeast Table, over on the sidebar? It lists the temp range for D-47 as being 50F to 86F.

The yeast table needs to be updated. It shows the old temp range for D47. Lallemand changed the range within the last couple of years. I guess they finally figured out what we kept saying - D47 works best when cool.

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WVMJack · Mar 16, 2013

Is D47 really worth the hassle when we have K1-V1116 or is it so much better? WVMJ

randomguy18840 · Mar 16, 2013

I understand the opinions on the juicy juice. I went and mixed everything up and It actually tastes good. A little smokey but the banana and strawberrys are definitely present. I figure the worst that happens is I don't like the results and it's only 2 lbs of honey. I think I'm going to start a plain bochet after my 2 gallon bucket is free from this current 1 just so I can compare. I used K1-V1116 with 1 tsp nutrient, and 1/2 tsp energizer. Will add another 1/2 tsp nutrient and 1/4 tsp energizer after lag, and again at 1.050. Is anybody interested in the results? I can make a post in the brew logs if anybody wants to follow this.

Thanks for the replys though. I do share the concerns about the juicy juice, but I figure I'll give it a shot and just start a regular bochet with just a little bit more clover honey to shoot for the same alcohol %.

WVMJack · Mar 16, 2013

Somebody has to be the first to make a juicy juice bochetomel, hope it turns out fun. WVMJ

Medsen Fey · Mar 16, 2013

WVMJack said:
Is D47 really worth the hassle when we have K1-V1116 or is it so much better? WVMJ

Let me preface this by saying K1V is my favorite yeast, however, D47 has some advantages. It provides a lot mouthfeel which meads sometimes need. Having an ABV tolerance of 14% means it is easier to stop
and easier and/or safer to use for sweet meads. It also adds more esters than K1V. Since I try to do most of my ferments cool anyway, there is no extra work in using D47 for me so it comes down to asking what do I want from the yeast.

randomguy18840 said:
I understand the opinions on the juicy juice. I went and mixed everything up and It actually tastes good...

...Thanks for the replys though. I do share the concerns about the juicy juice, but I figure I'll give it a shot and just start a regular bochet with just a little bit more clover honey to shoot for the same alcohol %.

One lesson I've learned is that if you judge meads based on the ingredient list rather than the taste of the final product you'll be pooh-poohing some excellent meads. While I agree that better quality honey and fruits generally produce better results, some stellar mead can be made using rather-highly-processed "stuff."

So don't knock your juicy juice batch until you give it a chance.

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RachmaelBenApplebaum · Mar 16, 2013

Yeah, I'm definitely in the better ingredients camp but mostly due to my first taste of Joes Quick Pyment. Tasted like something you'd give to children or find in a clear bottle with a glass screwtop (think manischewitz) as it still retained that strong sweet foxy concord Welches flavor. Good for some, but maybe my palate just can't handle the stuff. But hey, there's always room for innovation.

WVMJack · Mar 16, 2013

There you go, one can never be sure if they are witnessing innovation. We have seen JAO be one of the most popular meads ever made, Skeeter Pee revolutionized the use of lemon juice in a bottle, and Danger Daves new wave of Dragons Blood. Who knows, maybe Juicy Juice Bochet, JJB, will become as popular also and we helped encourage it

WVMJ

Marshmallow Blue · Mar 17, 2013

I also think juicy juice is one of the few juice isle juices that don't have the dreaded HFCS. But I have never liked the taste of it even as a kiddie. Langers makes some pretty tasty juice, but their selection is pretty limited.

Chevette Girl · Mar 17, 2013

I've use all-juice (no sugar added) juices for wines and melomels before and at least one of them, I count among my best creations... so don't be afraid to try stuff! And maybe the added flavours might hold through fermentation a bit better than what you naturally get from straight fruit?

If you think it'll ferment, go for it!! (of course, this is how I ended up with Jalapeno wine...)

randomguy18840 · Mar 17, 2013

It is actually fermenting quite vigorously. (or appears to be going by airlock activity). and it is in a bucket which probably leaks a bit. The smell is very strawberry banana with some smokey notes in the background. I'm actually pretty excited about this now. I still intend on starting another bochet same ingredients without the juice though so I can compare a plain bochet with the JJB I'm doing (thank you WVMJack for the acronym lol).

I'll post a mead log here in the next couple of days or so.

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