Question on Pasteurizing

davidp80 · May 30, 2013

Hi y'all,

Just a quick question on pasteurizing my mead.

When people pasteurize, are they pasteurizing/heating at 145F for 30 minutes or more after bottling, or am I heating the liquid itself and then bottling after?

Couldn't find this addressed directly.

Thanks for all your help,

-Dave

fatbloke · May 30, 2013

davidp80 said:
Hi y'all,

Just a quick question on pasteurizing my mead.

When people pasteurize, are they pasteurizing/heating at 145F for 30 minutes or more after bottling, or am I heating the liquid itself and then bottling after?

Couldn't find this addressed directly.

Thanks for all your help,

-Dave

You probably wouldn't find that.......

Why on earth would you pasteurise a mead ? It's not beer or cider.......

Hence I'm sorry I can't say for certain but should have thought you'd bottle first (which IMO is still damaginh to the product) otherwise you'd be losing flavour and alcohol through evaporation.........

davidp80 · May 31, 2013

Yes, I kind of thought the same thing. Thanks for your feedback.

We're pasteurizing because don't want to use the potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite. We'd rather not use chemicals.

Yes, pasteurizing is damaging too, but I suppose I feel like it's the lesser of two evils here, all things considered.

Thanks for your help. Any other thoughts?

-Dave

fatbloke · May 31, 2013

Well the only reason to use sorbate and sulphites together is to prevent re fermentation if you added further fermentable sugars.

So if you made a batch as a dry mead and i5s fermented out, you could get away with that.

If you restricted the strength by way of the yeast so its a lower tolerance type......the one that comes to mind being wyeast sweet mead as thats tolerant to 11% (I don't like it but many find it works)..

You can step feed honey to make the batch exceed its tolerance even adding further sugars to a "sack" level.

You can use a non-fermentable sweetener to back sweeten.....

Etc etc. Many ways of sorting that.

Dont get too hung up on the "no chems" thing. Sulphites are naturally produced in fermentation we just add more to be able to use their properties in an enhanced way.

Plus we probably produce better meads now than at any time in history so make use of whats available to produce what nature didn't really intend but the ancients found possible under the right circumstances if manipulated in the right way........

Chevette Girl · Jun 1, 2013

I also find step-feeding it till the yeast is well and truly DONE works pretty well, but anytime I bottle something with residual sugar I give it at least a year in the carboy before bottling.

Medsen Fey · Jun 1, 2013

It is pretty well documented that pasteurization is detrimental to wine quality (with possible exception of flash pasteurization). With meads that might not hold true. Think about this - when did you last see someone boiling a batch of grape juice before making it into wine¹? And yet, we have many cases where someone has boiled a honey must until black smoke comes out, and instead of ruining things it makes a delicious bochet with lots of caramel and toffee flavors. It may be that meads are much less prone to damage by heating for brief periods, and we really need to have some side by side testing to compare pasteurization ( anyone looking for a project?

) So before I would rule out pasteurizing, I'd consider testing it.

Medsen

¹ Concentrating wine musts by boiling before fermentation was common practice in ancient times.

fatbloke · Jun 2, 2013

Medsen Fey said:
It is pretty well documented that pasteurization is detrimental to wine quality (with possible exception of flash pasteurization). With meads that might not hold true. Think about this - when did you last see someone boiling a batch of grape juice before making it into wine¹? And yet, we have many cases where someone has boiled a honey must until black smoke comes out, and instead of ruining things it makes a delicious bochet with lots of caramel and toffee flavors. It may be that meads are much less prone to damage by heating for brief periods, and we really need to have some side by side testing to compare pasteurization ( anyone looking for a project? ) So before I would rule out pasreurizing, I'd consider testing it.

Medsen

¹ Concentrating wine musts by boiling before fermentation was common practice in ancient times.

As ever Brother Medsen, your wisdom and POV are a joy to read.

My problem is that whenever I see the "P" word mentioned, I get the impression that the author is suggesting pateurisation for the wrong reasons. There's justifications for it with jams/jellies and not forgetting its origins in the world of dairy products, but I feel that using this as a method to cover poor making practices, isn't the right way ahead.

If the maker "does things right"in the first place, they get a good product that doesn't need such an inappropriate process, given what we are usually trying to make/achieve.......

WhiteFox · Jun 4, 2013

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon of asking "Why are you pasteurizing?"

If you are doing it to kill the yeast prior to backsweetening to prevent additional fermentation, then I'd suggest going the opposite direction. Cold crash the mead by putting your container into a bucket or tub filled with ice water (which will typically be between 32 and 35 deg F). Make sure to add ice once in a while to keep it cold for at least 48 hours. The cold should kill off all the yeast, and help settle a lot of the sediment, all with no special chemicals added.

Medsen Fey · Jun 4, 2013

WhiteFox said:
... The cold should kill off all the yeast, and help settle a lot of the sediment, all with no special chemicals added.

The cold (even freezing) will not reliably kill yeast. They become dormant, and many will drop as sediment, but they will reawaken when the temp warms up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

ox45 · Jun 4, 2013

If you aren't weary on the upfront investment there is always the option of sterile filtration as a chem free way to remove yeast.

The_Bishop · Jun 5, 2013

I would second that; sterile filtration would be far superior to pasteurization.

davidp80 · Jun 10, 2013

Thanks for all the replies. Your perspectives are helpful.

Here's another question to go along with my initial one:

If I opt not to backsweeten, do I need to stabilize at all?

At this point, the mead has been sitting in secondary for approximately 6 months. No active sign of fermentation at this time (no bubbling).

Do I need to use chemicals? Do I really need to pasteurize?

Thanks all,

-Dave

Medsen Fey · Jun 10, 2013

Please provide the recipe details.

fatbloke · Jun 10, 2013

If the mead really has finished dry i.e. 0.995 or less then no you could likely get away with no chems etc.

Its when theres residual sugars you have to consider sulphite/sorbate or as others have mentioned, sterile filtration (only on traditionals, nothing with fruit or spice flavourings as the filter could in theory, remove flavour and/or aromatics too.

I would rather use chems than heat......

Chevette Girl · Jun 10, 2013

If there's nothing left for the yeast to eat, you can go without chemicals. Just make sure it's all the way degassed.

If there are still sugars, you CAN bottle if there's not been activity for a while (I usually assume mine are safe after a year or two) but be aware that yeast has been known to kick back up after up to three years of dormancy.

davidp80 · Jun 12, 2013

Thanks, y'all.

I'll take a gravity reading and determine what to do from there.

I'd rather not have to pasteurize or use chemical stabilizers if possible.

-Dave

fatbloke · Jun 12, 2013

davidp80 said:
Thanks, y'all.

I'll take a gravity reading and determine what to do from there.

I'd rather not have to pasteurize or use chemical stabilizers if possible.

-Dave

Top man.....

Just remember, young meads can taste hideous and dry meads can be an acquired taste. Also dry meads can take longer to mellow/age.

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Question on Pasteurizing

davidp80

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

davidp80

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

Chevette Girl

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Medsen Fey

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

WhiteFox

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Medsen Fey

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The_Bishop

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davidp80

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Medsen Fey

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

Chevette Girl

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davidp80

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....