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joemirando
08-11-2013, 01:08 PM
I made a 1 gallon batch of what I hope will end up an apple pie cyser




1/2 gallon of apple juice (SG 1.034)
2.25 lbs clover honey
3 TBS dark brown sugar (inverted by boiling in a cup of water with 1 tsp lemon juice)
25 raisins
3/4 tsp each energizer and nutrient (after yeast got going)
1/4 tsp each energizer and nutrient (at 1/3 break)
1 stick cinnamon
2 allspice berries, crushed
1/16 tspn ground nutmeg
Balance filtered water to 1 gallon
Lalvin 71B yeast, recycled from previous batch of traditional.
OG = 1.103


Aerated 2x/day to 1/3 sugar break. Fermented in less than a week.

SG as of today: 0.994

I've racked it off the lees, since I don't want the yeast refuse messing up the flavor... what there is of it.

My issue right now is that it tastes... thin, for lack of a better word. Even "watery" doesn't cover it. There's no 'off' taste. In fact, there's very little taste at all. I am unsure as to how to correct this. I had the same issue a while back with a batch of hard cider. It fermented, but there was nothing to it taste-wise.

Would adding malic acid help? Racking it onto a diced apple or two?

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

ScotRob
08-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Hmmm- you could try adding some tannin (maybe 1/8 teaspoon of grape tannin powder), which may correct it a bit...(although apples do contain a reasonable amount already)....you might also try racking and topping up with some grape concentrate + water (this may re-start fermentation....but it should also give some vinosity and body).

If you were making it again from scratch, you could try the old winemaker's trick of adding 1-2 bananas to the ferment, which always adds body. another trick is to add some glycerin (1 tsp per gallon to start with) which adds to mouth feel/body

I'm not really a cyser fan to be honest; i think pyments and meads made with grapes or other non-apple fruits always taste much better....but that's just my opinion.

PitBull
08-11-2013, 02:39 PM
I make my cysers with no added water, i.e., pure apple cider and honey. I also try not to exceed 12 to 13% ABV as excess alcohol causes the cyser to taste hot for quite a while. Often well over a year.

Rather than try to fix a watery batch, it might be best to brew another batch using pure apple juice and and honey, and then just blend the two. Since apple juice tends to ferment really dry, you may with to back sweeten with apple juice instead of honey to give it even more apple body.

rmccask
08-11-2013, 08:45 PM
I backsweetened my 5 gallon batch of cyser with 4 cans of apple juice concentrate and a little honey and I think it has good flavor though it is a little sour right now. I started it with 4 gallons of apple juice and 8.5 lb. of clover honey.

This is my first cyser and I just racked it again earlier today. I added a little medium+ french oak for the fun of it after racking. I had already added a little tea to it after stabilizing it since I decided my apple juice was probably light in tannins and was hoping it would help it clear.

What is the color of your cyser? The color of mine is darker than my other meads but my apple juice was fairly dark too. I think my cyser is slightly darker than the original apple juice but I don't have any apple juice left to compare against.

joemirando
08-11-2013, 09:47 PM
I backsweetened my 5 gallon batch of cyser with 4 cans of apple juice concentrate and a little honey and I think it has good flavor though it is a little sour right now. I started it with 4 gallons of apple juice and 8.5 lb. of clover honey.

This is my first cyser and I just racked it again earlier today. I added a little medium+ french oak for the fun of it after racking. I had already added a little tea to it after stabilizing it since I decided my apple juice was probably light in tannins and was hoping it would help it clear.

What is the color of your cyser? The color of mine is darker than my other meads but my apple juice was fairly dark too. I think my cyser is slightly darker than the original apple juice but I don't have any apple juice left to compare against.

Yes, my cyser is quite a bit darker than the apple juice. Its an orange-brown color, which I attribute to the 3 tablespoons of dark brown sugar I added, plus the clover honey, plus whatever magic the wee beasties have worked upon it.

-Joe

akueck
08-12-2013, 08:57 PM
I'd just give it some time. Cysers and ciders I've made do taste thin right after fermentation. The flavor rounds out over a year or so. Patience!

joemirando
08-12-2013, 10:03 PM
I'd just give it some time. Cysers and ciders I've made do taste thin right after fermentation. The flavor rounds out over a year or so. Patience!

Ummmm.... did you read my sig file? <LOL>

rmccask
08-13-2013, 12:05 AM
I still prefer...

What do we want? A cure for ADHD
When do we want it? Squirrel!

joemirando
08-13-2013, 01:14 AM
I still prefer...

What do we want? A cure for ADHD
When do we want it? Squirrel!

Heh heh, reminds me of one day at work (ah, those were the days) when the boss's son (a real piece of work) picked up the newspaper, which had a story about ADHD in the right column of the front page, but the headline was split at the fold. The headline read something like:

ADHD MAY NOT BE
==============
EASY TO DIAGNOSE

He picked it up and read the headline, flipping the paper as he did so...
"A-D-H-D may not beeeeeee...
HEY LOOK! A FIRE TRUCK!"

His older brother and I almost hit the floor.

Never work for a family owned business, by the way. Blood is the only substance in the Universe thicker than stupidity.


Joe

wowbagger
08-13-2013, 01:36 PM
I agree with PitBull: I use all juice in my cysers (sometimes mixing in cherry or cranberry juice) and end them pretty sweet (1.012 Or higher). Even then, they are 'thinner' in taste than many of my other meads.

ogoody50
09-24-2013, 06:27 PM
I'd just give it some time. Cysers and ciders I've made do taste thin right after fermentation. The flavor rounds out over a year or so. Patience!

I started a batch of apple cyser for the first time this year. I pretty much follwed a reposting of Ken Schramms Fall Bounty recipe on this web site. I used cider rather than (pasturized clear) apple juice. I was worried about the clarity of the finished product due to the cider so I pretty much doubled the instructions on my pectin enzyme bottle. It's only been about two weeks but the 5 gal. batch is still pretty non-see through. I haven't made any meads that weren't relatively clear from the start or soon after (aside from a peach last year) but when should I expect it to clarify some, or what should I do if it doesn't?

joemirando
09-25-2013, 12:26 AM
I started a batch of apple cyser for the first time this year. I pretty much follwed a reposting of Ken Schramms Fall Bounty recipe on this web site. I used cider rather than (pasturized clear) apple juice. I was worried about the clarity of the finished product due to the cider so I pretty much doubled the instructions on my pectin enzyme bottle. It's only been about two weeks but the 5 gal. batch is still pretty non-see through. I haven't made any meads that weren't relatively clear from the start or soon after (aside from a peach last year) but when should I expect it to clarify some, or what should I do if it doesn't?

Mine is still cloudy as hell, so I'll leave this for someone else to answer.

Mine still looks like (american) cider. Sigh. Der.


Joe

Medsen Fey
09-25-2013, 08:23 AM
In a pinch you can add some biolees or surlie (or similar products) and gain some body. However giving it time, as Akueck suggested, is your best bet. Even apple ciders become more rounded with a year of aging.

And they will clear eventually.



Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT

smokepole
09-25-2013, 05:14 PM
Heh heh,

Never work for a family owned business, by the way. Blood is the only substance in the Universe thicker than stupidity.


Joe




Yes familiar with that
Bosses son was punching cows in Montana 3 years ago.
He now thinks he's an expert in machining. And the old man lets him pretend to be foreman.
We are now down to 3 employees running machines. 5 engineers and salesmen.
AND ONLY us 3 employees get laid off when no work comes in. No idea how they can afford to keep doors open.
I'd leave bu I don't want to work 80hrs elsewhere

McJeff
10-16-2013, 02:03 PM
Joe what did you end up doing to your Cyser? How is doing?

joemirando
10-16-2013, 02:47 PM
Joe what did you end up doing to your Cyser? How is doing?

It's still sitting on my desk, airlocked, bulk aging. It has not cleared at all, and at this point I really don't think it will clear on its own. I had added double the pectic enzyme the bottle recommends for must (it's a tiny little dropper bottle of concentrate and recommends 3 drops/gallon) post-fermentation, but it didn't make a bit of difference. I will have to go back through my notes to see if I can add bentonite or if I've already gone that route and have to switch to sparkloid. The taste remains unchanged, and is quite thin. My problem was that I tried to strike a balance between the apple juice and the honey and only used 1/2 juice with the balance being water. Next time I'll know better.


Joe

Vance G
10-16-2013, 03:02 PM
It may be slow clearing but it will clear. I set a carboy outside on a sub freezing day and let the mead chill out and usually get a real good drop. If you freeze it solid and break the carboy, I am not responsible but I will understand your forgetting it out in the cold. One more reason to switch to Better Bottles.

joemirando
10-16-2013, 04:45 PM
It may be slow clearing but it will clear. I set a carboy outside on a sub freezing day and let the mead chill out and usually get a real good drop. If you freeze it solid and break the carboy, I am not responsible but I will understand your forgetting it out in the cold. One more reason to switch to Better Bottles.

Well we're many weeks behind you temp-wise, so that wouldn't be an issue. It DID spend 2 weeks in the fridge at ~35F then racked. I left it out after that, having heard from others that sometimes it clears at room temp after cold crashing. Alas, such was not the case here.

Joe

Medsen Fey
10-16-2013, 07:01 PM
If you put it away somewhere dark and quiet until next summer, I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised with the result.

joemirando
10-16-2013, 07:50 PM
If you put it away somewhere dark and quiet until next summer, I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised with the result.

I'm counting on it. ;)

Joe

McJeff
10-16-2013, 08:11 PM
Mine is only a month old, but it fermented dry and not even close to clear. Back sweetened and but into a corner. Hope the taste comes around.

ogoody50
01-06-2014, 03:17 PM
I posted on this earlier and if anyone knows a better thread to post it to please let me know, but here goes. I have a 5 gallon batch of Ken Schramm's Fall Bounty going. I used pressed cider from an orchard. I followed the recipe pretty closely. Starting S.G. was 1115 after 12 hours or so. After week or so I racked from the crock into a 5 gal. carboy. S.G. was around 1.000 so I added 1 pound of honey.

At some point I was concerned about the clearing so I added a product called Super-Kleer which is a two step process using Kieselsol and Chitosan. It's been four months and the top 3 gallons or so are very clear, but the bottom two gallons or so have a very distinct dividing line from the top 3 and are fairly cloudy.

I don't know if anyone has experienced this but I am guessing the bottom two gallons are hazy because of pectin that is still in there ( I did use the suggested amount of pectic enzyme). SO I am going to rack a second time and was wondering if I should try to use separate one gallon containers and keep the two suspensions separate, or try and make them all homogenous with a little up and down of the siphon tube. Any input appreciated!

Honeyhog
01-06-2014, 09:12 PM
I had a cyser once take 5 months to clear but I didn't use any fining agents.

fuelish
01-08-2014, 04:13 PM
Never work for a family owned business, by the way. Blood is the only substance in the Universe thicker than stupidity.

Haha....yup been there, done that....was a baker years back, worked for a few family shops...only ones that weren't drama-fests were those where I worked with the owner and no other family members present (at least during my night shift ;) )