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Slightly vegetal odor.

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Jim H

Worker Bee
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Jun 8, 2013
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Well, yet another little issue cropped up with my first melomel. Yesterday, I caught a slight whiff of odor. I could not distinguish what it might be. It has already gone through the explosive fermentation, and is now slowing down a bit. I have been giving it nutrients, and in fact gave it 2 packets of boiled bread yeast yesterday after I noticed the smell.

Today, it still has a slight smell, but it seems vegetal (though, it is till kind of hard to tell). Long past its aeration stage, I have been degassing more or less on a daily basis, and splashing just a little bit during the degas.

pH actually went up, and is now at 4.4. It's well fed. The internal temp hasn't been bad (at a low today of 58 F). It is still fermenting, and at approx 16.98% ABV.

What do do about vegetal smells? Is there any cure?

The log is here.
http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215269
 

Jim H

Worker Bee
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Jun 8, 2013
434
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I have no idea if this kind of thing is normal or not. Before degassing it tonight, it seemed kinda smelly. Kind of vegetal, kind of sulphuric. Not really distinct. For all I know, melomels have a kind of smell in mid-fermentation that smells surprisingly NOT like sweet fruit. I am too new to this to know from experience.

Anyway, degassed it really thoroughly. REALLY thoroughly. There was splashing and foaming. It smelled better afterwards. So, I will keep doing that during degas until the smell goes away, I guess.
 

Jim H

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Jun 8, 2013
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Today, it smelled slightly more sulphury than veggie. But, I still cant tell. It's not horribly bad. It only smells slightly peachy through it all, and it is a 49 oz can of Vintner's peach puree.

Does fruit go through a period of smelling "funny" in a mel? Is that a normal stage of fermentation?
 

Chevette Girl

All around BAD EXAMPLE
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Apr 27, 2010
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Sometimes it does... a few times I've had apples and red currants go through a vomit stage shortly after the 1/3 break... now and then something makes me think of vinegar but it's really just the taste of the fruit with the sugars stripped out... I usually find fermenting meads and wines taste best while there's still a bit of sugar left and then they go through an awful stage when they're dry but then they age out to something drinkable again.

I've had other weird aromas, the one I tend to describe as vegetal has happened with watermelon and violets. For me, it seems to age out.

The diesel smell doesn't seem to age out, although it can be aired out with a day or two of agitation and use of a wine bottle vacuum cork thingie, but it's kind of a laborious process when you just wanna drink something.

I haven't figured out how to get rid of rubber smell yet.

The last thee tend to show up after fermentation's done. I had two go dieselly in the bottles, one went rubber in the bottle, and I've got three batches in secondary that are slowly getting less funky-vegetal.
 

Jim H

Worker Bee
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Jun 8, 2013
434
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Thanks for the info, and the reassurance. I have also been poking around on the interwebs, and there are several who attest to having melomels go through a funky stage.

I remember when I opened up the can of puree, it didn't have that wildly "wow that's peach!" smell I was expecting. I thought it might be more of a peach-nectary smell. Now, all that said, tonight I gave it a good sniff before degassing, and it smelled more like fruit, and not so funky as yesterday. Also, the pulp is starting to fall ... near the top, it is getting more translucent, and less opaque. It is not smelly tonight. I also gave it another hit of boiled bread yeast and Fermaid O. We'll see how it appears tomorrow.
 

WVMJack

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Feb 12, 2013
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Not particularly a melomel thing but really common with peach. I made a peach mel this past month using the staggered yeast nutrient addition with D47 at about 68F, much improved smells, much much more like peaches than barfo. If you have done meads previously then I doubt you have much to worry about, its just a peachy thing. WVMJ
 

Medsen Fey

Fuselier since 2007
Premium Patron
Remember that high-temp fermentations create all kinds of funk. Vegetal odors can be among them and can sometimes be mercaptans and disulfides. Rubber odors may also come from these compounds. During aging you may get phenlic Band-Aid odors as well. These are all common problems when you ferment at 83°F.

This batch may turn out fine, but you'll need to refrain from passing judgement on it for a long while. Let it finish. If it still smells vegetal when done, splash rack with a copper scrub pad, get it off lees relatively early, then let it age.

Endeavor to persevere!
Medsen

Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT
 

Jim H

Worker Bee
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Jun 8, 2013
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Medsen: I've done plenty of back reading in the forum, I now understand your title "Fusilier". You have years of experience with hi-temp/hi-octane stinks. You're probably right about the near term future for this batch.

So, details please about the copper scrubby thing -- are we talking about a regular copper dish scrubber? Or could it be a length of copper pipe from Home Depot? Should I leave it in there or just use it while racking off? By splashing, do you mean allowing plenty of aeration?

I noticed that whether in bath or not, the meads seemed to always read about 15-20 F less than ambient temps (the ambient temp is what I reported at 83 F, before.) So, the inner temp of the must was usually around 65-70 F, when I measured it. I'm not saying that the must temp didn't go up higher, just reporting my observations after I got very good about measuring both inner and outer temps.

Maybe I'm just writing this in the hopes that there won't be the stinks you mention.... :( If I have to age it, I frankly don't know how I'll store it. No cellar or room to do so.

And WMVJ: I also used staggered nutrient and feeding. But, my environment was not as controllable, there were a couple of very hot days when I couldn't put it in an ice bath immediately. I'm using K1V, so maybe that is a little more protective than D47, as this batch never hit the "barfo" stage, just a wee funky.
 

Jim H

Worker Bee
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Jun 8, 2013
434
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I just finished degassing this batch. It does not smell peachy, and it does not smell meady or honeyish. There's just this mild funk. Bleah. :mad:
 

Medsen Fey

Fuselier since 2007
Premium Patron
The critical time for temperature control is early in the fermentation. You cooled this batch down after it already suffered heat stress. High temp tends to blow fruity aromatics out the airlock, and high ABV and sulfur compounds can cover up fruit aroma. So the fact that it doesn't smell peachy isn't surprising.

You may want to let it warm up to about 70°F to finish out. You don't want to expose active yeast to copper because that stimulates them to produce more H2S. When the yeast are finished, a splash racking is where you take the end of the siphon hose and keep it above the level of the mead in your secondary container that you are racking into. This agitates the mead, de-gasses and aerates it and will release volatile sulfur odors.

I typically use a simple shiny new copper scrub pad with a stinky batch. I attach to the tip of the racking cane and then splash rack. You stir or agitate with copper pipe and some folks use a copper racking cane.

After you've racked it, if you have a fridge or cold place to put it, you can drop a lot of lees quickly in a week or two and then I'd rack it again.

After that, I'd put it away and forget about it. I wouldn't be smelling and tasting it. I definitely wouldn't get anxious about it. This would be a good time to start a new batch - maybe a braggot that will be ready quickly. This peach mead may turn out to be fine, but only time will tell.





Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT
 

Jim H

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Jun 8, 2013
434
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18
NYC
I tried a sip of this tonight. A treat, perhaps for the Michelin Man.

As Medsen warned, rubber, band aids and sulphur - terrible, just terrible. While I've never tried Cisco or Night Train, I am sure they make a better quaff. This is awful stuff, a stain upon the meadmaker's art. Damned blot, an open sore, a clot of ...

Sorry, I'm watching Richard II while writing this. It inspires. But, the truth is that this is an evil drink.

I will wait until this stabilizes. I will dutifully copper and splash it. However, my ability to keep it for the duration is in serious question.

While I learned a big lesson about hot-weather meading, I need to make something that has a greater chance of success. Perhaps the Belgian yeast brew will do the trick.
 

mannye

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Oct 10, 2012
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I tried a sip of this tonight. A treat, perhaps for the Michelin Man.

As Medsen warned, rubber, band aids and sulphur - terrible, just terrible. While I've never tried Cisco or Night Train, I am sure they make a better quaff. This is awful stuff, a stain upon the meadmaker's art. Damned blot, an open sore, a clot of ...

Sorry, I'm watching Richard II while writing this. It inspires. But, the truth is that this is an evil drink.

I will wait until this stabilizes. I will dutifully copper and splash it. However, my ability to keep it for the duration is in serious question.

While I learned a big lesson about hot-weather meading, I need to make something that has a greater chance of success. Perhaps the Belgian yeast brew will do the trick.

Average temp of 79F has so far yielded nothing but wonderful fruity smells and tastes with Belgian...but I have yet to see what happens when there's no more sugar to hide whatever may be lurking under that sweet. The good thing is it should only be a few more days till this batch ferments dry.
 
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