choice of yeast for extended time on the lees

Maeloch · Dec 13, 2013

Hi all. I'll be visiting the folks for a couple of weeks over Christmas, and was thinking of setting off a 5-gal traditional or possibly a red pyment going off while I'm there and leaving it.

I'll be around to manage the first 10 days or so of the ferment, but after that it'll probably be another 3-months - tho this is a up in the air too - till I'm back and can rack it. Is this fine? I was thinking to use KV1-1116.

If nothing else tho, it hardwires patience into the process and my room's liable to be a fairly constant 15-20C temp.

Medsen Fey · Dec 13, 2013

You run a risk leaving any batch on gross lees for an extended period- sulfur odors can develop. However, I've done it with a traditional mead using D47 and had it go well. I'd hesitate to do it with a fruit batch.

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Shmafty · Dec 13, 2013

Definitely avoid 71-B. I can't speak for the other yeast strains, as I don't have a lot of personal experience with leaving the mead sitting on the lees for long periods, but 71-B is reputed to have the worst issues from autolysis.

mmclean · Dec 13, 2013

If you are able to rack off of the gross lees within the ten days you may be alright. A fast fermenter like Lalvin V1116 may do the job.

Maeloch · Dec 14, 2013

mmclean said:
If you are able to rack off of the gross lees within the ten days you may be alright. A fast fermenter like Lalvin V1116 may do the job.

Ah good point, that didn't occur to me.

Maeloch · Dec 14, 2013

Medsen Fey said:
You run a risk leaving any batch on gross lees for an extended period- sulfur odors can develop. However, I've done it with a traditional mead using D47 and had it go well. I'd hesitate to do it with a fruit batch.

You with a fruit batch - is that basically sitting on pulp is one more thing that can give off-flavours? I'd probably use juice if I did go that route.

Medsen Fey · Dec 14, 2013

Yes, the concern is the pulp. Clear juice is less likely to cause issues.

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fatbloke · Dec 14, 2013

Put things into perspective here.........

It's only a couple of weeks over the crimbo period isn't it ? So generally speaking, even if it was gonna ferment down to dry in a couple of weeks, it's not really going to be a problem.

The extended aging/batonage/sur lie thing alludes to months on the lees - which, as I understand it, means to get it racked off the gross lees, then letting it drop clear and leaving a batch on the last bit that drops out.

Someone would have to confirm if I've understood that correctly or not.

It's a bit like the view of using 71B and it not being known to be good if left on the lees ? I suspect we're all guilty of scaremongering a little. The time frame of the ferment, racking off the gross lees and then being able to leave it to clear naturally, isn't usually gonna be an issue. I suspect it's why people worry about it some.

I find that 71B does make some very good meads (IMO it's far superior to D47 unless you actually want a dry mead that has some very "wine-like" qualities).

Yes, it maybe that it's not good for sur lie/batonage, but how quickly it's known to break down causing autolysis would need some experimentation and to sacrifice a small batch to have some real idea - hence the 2 months after the ferment has finished suggestion seems, to my mind, to be a reasonably sensible recommendation.

The newer mead maker is, after all, gonna still be keen and conscientious enough to not allow it to go over that anyway IMO, it's those of us who've made a fair bit and become a little lazy/complacent/lackadaisical/casual with our mead making who might "forget" that a batch was made with 71B and suffer this oversight..........

Marshmallow Blue · Dec 16, 2013

Well in my experience, Red star cotes de blancs has been really good at sitting on lees (even the bulk). I remember my first newbee batch, it was

3lbs of honey
water to a gallon
red star CdB Yeast

And that was it. It sat on primary for around 3 months before I did the first racking. And by racking i mean pouring through a funnel into another carboy. It may not give you any winey pyment characteristics though.

Red Stars Pasteur Red Develops a nice wine twang without dominating (at least so in my strawberry currant mead).

joemirando · Dec 16, 2013

Marshmallow Blue said:
Well in my experience, Red star cotes de blancs has been really good at sitting on lees (even the bulk). I remember my first newbee batch, it was

3lbs of honey
water to a gallon
red star CdB Yeast

And that was it. It sat on primary for around 3 months before I did the first racking. And by racking i mean pouring through a funnel into another carboy. It may not give you any winey pyment characteristics though.

Red Stars Pasteur Red Develops a nice wine twang without dominating (at least so in my strawberry currant mead).

I agree that CdB is good as far as sitting on the lees. Three months has not been a problem for me, which is a good thing, because it took that long for the damned batch to ferment. And no, it wasn't anything funky. It was a straight traditional 6 gal batch with 18 lbs of honey (plus nutrients, of course). Despite the long time it took to ferment, it finished up quite nicely.

Joe

Maeloch · Dec 17, 2013

Okay thanks again everyone for your input. Guess it boils down to - it will most likely be fine and anyhow I'll should get chance to rack it off the gross lees before I leave. I'll look up the CdB. Obviously a slow ferment is non-issue if I'm not around anyhow.

Marshmallow Blue · Dec 17, 2013

joemirando said:
I agree that CdB is good as far as sitting on the lees. Three months has not been a problem for me, which is a good thing, because it took that long for the damned batch to ferment. And no, it wasn't anything funky. It was a straight traditional 6 gal batch with 18 lbs of honey (plus nutrients, of course). Despite the long time it took to ferment, it finished up quite nicely.

Joe

Slow and steady wins the race, and doesn't taste like fuel when it's done.

MikeTheElder · Dec 18, 2013

K1V-1116 or EC-1118.

But of the 2, I would tend to think that the EC-1118 being a champagne yeast would be more stable over time and therefore the better choice.

Champagnes are bottled with live yeast and can sit for years.

That's my logic,I'm not sure how that translates to Mead though but it should be close.

Even though I can be forgetful and/or lazy, my Mead never sits around long enough to test this theory but I have left wines sitting on both 1116 and 1118 for months at a time with no problems.

Medsen Fey · Dec 18, 2013

I find that EC-1118 gives stronger yeasty and bread-like flavors than some of the others when doing lees aging. YMMV.

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mannye · Dec 18, 2013

Them there is always the option of doing a BOMM (Wyeast 1388) and racking after 7 days then leaving it in secondary until you get back.

Buy then that would be an experiment in BOMMing. Lol.

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Maeloch · Dec 19, 2013

mannye said:
Them there is always the option of doing a BOMM (Wyeast 1388) and racking after 7 days then leaving it in secondary until you get back.

Buy then that would be an experiment in BOMMing. Lol.

I have already done one of those and failled! No I'll probably use KV1-1116 as I know I can pick it up easy enuff.

With the BOMM I lack the facilities to keep it warm apart from my folks place. So I guess my choice of yeasts will be seasonal - cold yeasts in winter, warm in summer.

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choice of yeast for extended time on the lees

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