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View Full Version : Fermax = Energizer?



joemirando
12-16-2013, 10:17 PM
I ran out of energizer and nutrient so trucked down to my LHBS and grabbed a small jar of energizer. I looked around, but they didn't have the nutrient I bought last time. So I grabbed the Fermax, since I knew it had a good reputation (but no list of friggin' ingredients on the label).

I opened it up and, to me, it looks pretty much like my energizer. I even think I can recognize the epsom salt crystals and maybe the DAP. The rest looks to be yeast hulls, vitamin complex, etc., I think.

So do I still need a nutrient? Did I just double up on 2 energizers under different names?

Thanks,
Joe

fatbloke
12-17-2013, 01:07 AM
Probably not.

Nutrient/DAP is used to boost nitrogen and doesnt contain anything else normally.

Plus nutrient is usually cheaper so its an easy answer. I use a mix of both to get the right nitrogen levels but bias it to 2 parts fermaidk to 1 part DAP. .....

joemirando
12-17-2013, 02:20 AM
Probably not.

Nutrient/DAP is used to boost nitrogen and doesnt contain anything else normally.

Plus nutrient is usually cheaper so its an easy answer. I use a mix of both to get the right nitrogen levels but bias it to 2 parts fermaidk to 1 part DAP. .....

Price might be an indicator, but I don't remember what I paid for each. One (energizer) is an ounce, the Fermax is 4 ounces.

Okay, the information I found on Fermax is:

Fermax Yeast Nutrient:
"contains diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, autolyzed yeast"

Yeast Energizer:
"Contents: Diammonium Phosphate, Yeast Hulls, Magnesium Sulphate, Vitamin B Complex"

My usual MO is to add a total of 1 tsp each energizer and nutrient, stepped through to the 1/3 sugar break. Is this too much DAP?

I am only confused because the first nutrient I used was a uniform tan powder composed of yeast hulls, thiamine and B complex.

Well, I guess we'll find out. Or, I will, rather. Most of the people here probably already know.


Thanks,
Joe

Medsen Fey
12-17-2013, 07:43 PM
Fermax is an energizer.
A nutrient is typically just a nitrogen source (DAP, ammonium sulfate, or urea). You can ferment just using energizers but you need to increase the amounts to provide the same level of YAN. IMO it works better.

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joemirando
12-17-2013, 09:51 PM
Fermax is an energizer.
A nutrient is typically just a nitrogen source (DAP, ammonium sulfate, or urea). You can ferment just using energizers but you need to increase the amounts to provide the same level of YAN. IMO it works better.

That is what confused me. The bottle of Fermax is titled "Nutrient". But it looks almost exactly like the stuff labeled "Energizer", and they are, of course, both from the same company, BSG Handcraft.

Would adding boiled bread yeast along with either or both of these suffice?

Thanks
Joe

fatbloke
12-18-2013, 12:59 PM
The names are pretty interchangeable Joe.

I go by look general, so if it looks more like a tan/beige powder it will be whats usually termed as energiser whereas if it looks more like white crystals or table sugar/salt then its whats generally termed nutrient/DAP......

There's exceptions.......like the one sold by Brouwland ib Belgium, nutrivit ?, nutramin?, something like that, is like table salt but with some whitish powder mixed in. Thats also energiser but I suspect the grade of DAP used is coarser and maybe it doesn't have yeast hulls or something like that........

Medsen Fey
12-18-2013, 03:40 PM
That is what confused me...

Would adding boiled bread yeast along with either or both of these suffice?

Thanks
Joe

It is confusing because people use the same term for different things. Here at GotMead, we try to use energizer to mean the mixed products that contain autolyzed yeast, yeast hulls, vitamins, micronutrients, etc.

These products typically have about 1/2 of the YAN provided by DAP. If you are using the energizers in appropriate doses, you probably won't need any boiled yeast.

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joemirando
12-18-2013, 03:57 PM
It is confusing because people use the same term for different things. Here at GotMead, we try to use energizer to mean the mixed products that contain autolyzed yeast, yeast hulls, vitamins, micronutrients, etc.

These products typically have about 1/2 of the YAN provided by DAP. If you are using the energizers in appropriate doses, you probably won't need any boiled yeast.

Okey-dokey. Thanks. I just find it annoying that these are two very similar products by the same company.

The first packet of nutrient I bought was yeast hulls, thiamine and b-complex vitamins. I guess its just a matter of finding what works best and sticking with it. I'm not at the point where I've experimented enough to know what works best.

So if step feed a total of a teaspoon each, is that overdosing on DAP? I was a little more confident when energizer and nutrient looked different. <grin>

Joe

Medsen Fey
12-18-2013, 09:41 PM
So if step feed a total of a teaspoon each, is that overdosing on DAP? I was a little more confident when energizer and nutrient looked different. <grin>

Joe

What does your recipe look like?

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joemirando
12-18-2013, 09:58 PM
What does your recipe look like?

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Let us say standard traditional. 3 lbs clover honey/gallon.
I jump from one to another recipe a lot. At any given time the 'next batch' could be a sack mead with K1V, or a traditional with Cote Des Blancs, or a cherry juice mel with Premier Cuvee. It depends upon what I've got around, or what I can afford. I DID experiment with grinding some oak chips (dark and light mix) and adding it to the primary, and I think I like the results. Right now I'm waiting for blood oranges to come in for a JAO, but that won't require packaged nutrient or energizer.

But my question was aimed at a... standard protocol, assuming no fruit or such, as a general rule of thumb. I understand that certain ingredients can provide certain staples for the yeast, and that different strains of yeast have higher requirements, etc., but as a general rule, will a tsp of each of these supply too much DAP?

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here, or worrying about nothing, or maybe even missing the elephant in the room (I did that once... trust me, after a day or two, they STINK! <G>)

Thanks,
Joe

Medsen Fey
12-18-2013, 10:29 PM
Using 1 tsp of each PER GALLON should work fine for regular strength musts as long as you aren't using a real nutrient-hog of a yeast.

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joemirando
12-18-2013, 10:33 PM
Using 1 tsp of each PER GALLON should work fine for regular strength musts as long as you aren't using a real nutrient-hog of a yeast.

Medsen,

Thank you, good sir. I always check nutrient requirements of the yeast and adjust accordingly.

Joe