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sdrilling
01-17-2014, 01:35 PM
Hello

I was doing some research to see if there was an easy way to remove excess oxygen from the carboy after racking. I have a food saver which removes air from plastic bags and I wondered if this might be a solution.

A google search for food saver and wine found several videos about people using the food saver for degassing -- specifically removing c02 not oxygen from wine and mead. -- Though one would think if you remove co2 you would also remove o2. Maybe.....A bit confusing though because I see instructions for adding co2 as a blanket. This is apparently more physics than I am capable of understanding :)

Here are two video example

Degassing mead with handheld food saver - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTQ61JfEW0

Degassing wine using Kenmore Food Saver - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMW7I4d9wf8

Does anyone on Gotmead use a food saver for degassing? Have you used it to remove oxygen or co2 after racking?

Opinion -- a good (or dumb) idea?

Thank you

Steph

bernardsmith
01-17-2014, 02:08 PM
Hello

I was doing some research to see if there was an easy way to remove excess oxygen from the carboy after racking. I have a food saver which removes air from plastic bags and I wondered if this might be a solution.

A google search for food saver and wine found several videos about people using the food saver for degassing -- specifically removing c02 not oxygen from wine and mead. -- Though one would think if you remove co2 you would also remove o2. Maybe.....A bit confusing though because I see instructions for adding co2 as a blanket. This is apparently more physics than I am capable of understanding :)

Does anyone on Gotmead use a food saver for degassing? Have you used it to remove oxygen or co2 after racking?


Opinion -- a good (or dumb) idea?

Thank you

Steph

I have never used a foodsaver to pull a vacuum to draw out the CO2. I am not certain that you will be able to create a strong enough vacuum to effectively draw out the CO2. I use a vacuum pump (aspirator) and I think you may need to pull a vacuum of about 20 inches to force the CO2 out of the liquid.
Not sure that any free O2 is suspended and any O2 in the mead is likely to be combined with other molecules (like rust - you cannot un-rust a nail). The CO2 does not (for the most part) combine with other molecules but remains as a gas in the liquid (I say "for the most part" because I think some CO2 forms carbonic acid and so slightly increases the acidity of the mead).

rtu
01-17-2014, 02:14 PM
Degassing is removing the CO2 that is in solution in the must. It is not intended, at least as I understand it, to remove O2. The best policy for that is to avoid it coming in contact with the must in the first place. Hence airlocks. In the early stages of fermentation the yeast through off more CO2 than can remain in solution in the must. This has the side effect of forming a protective barrier between the must and surrounding O2.

When CO2 production slows (i.e. when the ferment slows) you no longer have that protective barrier. Hence air locks. When racking you can then add your own CO2 to provide that barrier while the container is exposed to the atmosphere. This is why you would add CO2.


Hopefully that clears things up a bit. I'm still relatively new to this so anyone should feel free to correct/clarify where appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mmclean
01-17-2014, 05:39 PM
Degassing is removing the CO2 that is in solution in the must. It is not intended, at least as I understand it, to remove O2. The best policy for that is to avoid it coming in contact with the must in the first place. Hence airlocks. In the early stages of fermentation the yeast through off more CO2 than can remain in solution in the must. This has the side effect of forming a protective barrier between the must and surrounding O2.

In the early stages of fermentation the yeast need O2. Up to 1/3 sugar break it is beneficial to add O2 by aeration.

sdrilling
01-17-2014, 06:38 PM
I was kinda thinking POST fermentation ------ say when you go to bulk aging for example.

Looking a bit more at the food saver it does remove oxygen from food so in "theory" it could remove oxygen (02) from mead. There are quite a few posts on the web from people using the food saver for removing C02.

Although I am not quite sure I understand why you would want to remove C02 I do understand that oxygen post fermentation is not a good thing.

..... so just wondering if anyone was using the food saver to remove either C02 or Oxygen or if this is just a dumb idea.

steph

WVMJack
01-17-2014, 10:17 PM
Dont do it, I burnt out the motor in my wifes foodsave, she used it as an excuse to get the expensive one and I am not allowed to use it. If you are serious about degassing get a real vacum pump, or do the drill stirring, or age long enough for it to degass on its own. All those other ways are a waste of time and money. WVMJ

sdrilling
01-17-2014, 10:40 PM
Dont do it, I burnt out the motor in my wifes foodsave, she used it as an excuse to get the expensive one and I am not allowed to use it. If you are serious about degassing get a real vacum pump, or do the drill stirring, or age long enough for it to degass on its own. All those other ways are a waste of time and money. WVMJ

Hi Jack -- thanks for the reply and advice.


I understand why we degass DURING fermentation. We do use the drill attachment for that.

Still a bit unclear why we degass for C02 AFTER fermentation. I found an interesting article. I will create a new thread for it. Kinda ambiguous about C02 -- both a good thing and a bad things.......

And if I understand correctly..... both oxygen (definitely) and C02 (maybe) are undesirable after primary.

So if you choose not to degas and simply use bulk aging to remove C02 -- how long on average does it take to accomplish this and will you know/be able to tell when it is done?

Thanks

WVMJack
01-18-2014, 06:46 PM
Your kinda making it harder than it is. When people say they are degassing during the primary what they really are doing is stirring up the yeast, the degassing is a byproduct of the stirring, stir faster and more gas comes out while the yeast are getting stirred up, really all there is to that part. Degassing after its been in a carboy for a while is a different matter, after your wine is clear it may still have some CO2 in it, if you want to bottle and dont want the gas in your mead you degass then bottle. After you rack into a carboy you really dont worry about CO2, you put on an airlock and keep out the O2, the CO2 dissipates over time, keep the headspace to a minimum, and if you want to bottle early then hook up a vacum and degass. I always hook mine up to a vacum just to be sure no matter how long its been aging, some dont like to let the CO2 go, some are totally degassed by the time I get around to bottling. Sorry cant tell you how long, its something experience tells you or you take a shortcut and put it under a vacum and then bottle. WVMJ

bernardsmith
01-18-2014, 08:37 PM
CO2 in mead or any wine when you bottle will result in a sparkling wine. Too much CO2 in a regular wine bottle with a regular cork may pop the cork or - worse - explode the bottle - different bottles and different kinds of caps are designed to withstand the amount of pressure that this CO2 can create. So, if you are not looking for sparkling mead, or if you are looking for sparkling mead created by a specific and known quantity of CO2 then you may want to ensure that all CO2 has been removed before you bottle (and if you want to make a sparkling mead - add a specific amount of additional fermentable sugar to active yeast that will result in 1 -3 volumes of CO2 ).

rtu
01-19-2014, 09:16 PM
In the early stages of fermentation the yeast need O2. Up to 1/3 sugar break it is beneficial to add O2 by aeration.

Thanks for adding that clarification. When I wrote the reply I was thinking strictly in terms of the bad effects of 02 and not the fact the yeast need 02 early on to support growth. I should have been more clear when I wrote that.