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UKTony
02-01-2014, 02:46 PM
I'm looking to add a little tannin to a test gallon that I plan to split from the main batch and upon reading the instructions, I realised I lack the skills to figure out the right amount per gallon into to something useful that I can actually measure.

The instructions say...

30-70 ppm

3-4 g/hL

0.25-0.58 lb/1000 gal

So the first bit is parts per million... I'm not counting a million bits of mead.

3 to 4 grams per (helicopter?) I don't have a pilots licence anyway.

0.25 to 0.58 pounds per 1000 gallons, ok that's cool, but why not use ounces or some other useful quantity, rather than take a non-metric amount and apply metric fractions to it? As far as I can figure ...

4 ounces (113.3 grams) to 9.28 ounces (263 grams) per 1000 gallons (US or Imperial?) I'll assume US?

So 0.113 grams to 0.263 grams per gallon.

Am I right? And if so, do I need scales that measure in hundredths of a gram?

Thanks for any help.

Tony

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danr
02-01-2014, 03:20 PM
I agree that those seem like very small, hard to measure amounts. I am not sure if any of the info on THIS (http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17624) thread would help you. It sounds like you probably do want to start with less than 1 gram per gallon. Maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon would equal about 1/2 a gram?

Dan

fatbloke
02-01-2014, 03:21 PM
Part of the problem when dealing with tannin matey.......
Though I got a set of druggies scales for a tenner that measure down to the hundredths......

and I'd suggest you err on the side of less so if you can only get scales that measure 10ths then 0.2 is good......

antonioh
02-03-2014, 01:51 PM
1 ppm, considerering mead density = 1, is about 1 mg tannin in 1 litre of mead, more or less 4 mg per US gallon.

Shmafty
02-03-2014, 03:28 PM
Sometimes instructions for additives are written for commercial winemakers that deal in huge volumes, instead of homebrewers. Hence such large units like pounds, kilograms, and hectoliters.

What I do for powder additives sometimes, is take the rough estimate of volume to weight, put that amount on a piece of paper and then cut and separate it into piles with an old credit card or razor blade like I've seen them do in the movies.

For example, 1/4 tsp of grape tannin powder weighs approximately 0.6g. Separate that into two roughly equal parts, and you've got two piles of about 0.3g each. Do that again to one of the piles and now you've got two more at about 0.15g each. And so on...

I agree with the others though... start on the low side.

rtu
02-03-2014, 05:45 PM
I'm looking to add a little tannin to a test gallon that I plan to split from the main batch and upon reading the instructions, I realised I lack the skills to figure out the right amount per gallon into to something useful that I can actually measure.

The instructions say...

30-70 ppm

3-4 g/hL


hL = hecta Liter = 100 L. So just divide both sides by 100 and you get:
3-4 g/hL = 0.03 - 0.04 g/L

This does seem like a small number to me. But then again I've not been doing this long enough to have messed with tannin yet.



0.25-0.58 lb/1000 gal


0.25 lbs = 113.4 g
0.58 lbs = 268.0 g
1000 gal = 3,785.4 L

So 0.25 lbs/1000 gal = 113.4 g / 3,785.4 L = .03g/L as above.
and 0.58 lbs / 1000 gal = .07 g/L. So higher than the high range in g's above.



So the first bit is parts per million... I'm not counting a million bits of mead.


30PPM is just 30 g of tannin / 1,000,000 g of must = 0.03 g of tannin / 1000 g of must. If you assume that must weighs the same as H20, then that's 0.03 g / L of must (since 1g of H20 is 1ml in volume). So same result as above.



3 to 4 grams per (helicopter?) I don't have a pilots licence anyway.

0.25 to 0.58 pounds per 1000 gallons, ok that's cool, but why not use ounces or some other useful quantity, rather than take a non-metric amount and apply metric fractions to it? As far as I can figure ...

4 ounces (113.3 grams) to 9.28 ounces (263 grams) per 1000 gallons (US or Imperial?) I'll assume US?

So 0.113 grams to 0.263 grams per gallon.


My math agrees with yours so 0.113 g / gal for the low range seems right and assumes that it's all US gal.

I just bought an AWS-100 scale from Amazon for around $10 US. It weighs grams to 0.01. I have only used it a few times so far, but it seems well suited to this sort of thing.



Am I right? And if so, do I need scales that measure in hundredths of a gram?

Thanks for any help.

Tony

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Yes, I think you are right,

GntlKnigt1
02-09-2014, 06:20 AM
I didn't bother with calcs. I saw an Oskar recipe with 3 tsp in a 12 gallon batch, so I use 1 tsp per 3 gallons now

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

fatbloke
02-09-2014, 07:21 AM
I didn't bother with calcs. I saw an Oskaar recipe with 3 tsp in a 12 gallon batch, so I use 1 tsp per 3 gallons now

Ha ha! I've tried using wine tannin a couple of times. After the ferment has completed (just on a "hit and miss" basis really), hoping to improve the result in some way.

It can do some really weird things, like I back sweetened a batch some after it had already cleared, then added a half teaspoon to the mead which had clouded up from the honey.

The next day, it was as clear as possible, but with about an inch and a half of weird looking, very fluffy sediment. It was a bugger to rack and I had to mess around with cold crashing and filter papers to get rid of it - I presume it was protein hazing and a lot of the tannin that had dropped out - can't remember if I thought it improved the brew or not........ :dontknow:

It does seem that some recipes say that it should be added up front, prior to primary ferment. Don't know whether that's the usual recommendation for tannin or not, or as it seems you can get both powdered and liquid (only seen the powdered stuff here so far), maybe one is supposed to be used up front and the other is for use afterward........

GntlKnigt1
02-09-2014, 07:35 AM
Have always used powdered and always up front. Have never seen liquid unless you mean using tea. I just got some tannin blanc at Brouwmarkt which I suspect is from Scott Labs. Am anxious to see what this does.

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

fatbloke
02-09-2014, 07:40 AM
Have always used powdered and always up front. Have never seen liquid unless you mean using tea. I just got some tannin blanc at Brouwmarkt which I suspect is from Scott Labs. Am anxious to see what this does.

The liquid tannin I'm thinking of (can't recall the name of it ATM), seems to be available in the US Doug.

I believe Bob who runs Winesathome (http://www.winesathome.co.uk), has tried it (presumably mail order) and mentioned that it seems like very good stuff........

Another example of a good product, but we can't get/find it here (in UK/EU) for some strange reason.......

loveofrose
02-09-2014, 09:36 AM
Tannins need a lot of time to fully integrate into the mead. Many instructions will say up to a month. A lot of it falls out of solution while clearing, but you won't have any trouble tasting the effects of what is left.

As for adding small quantities, you need to use an old microbiology technique called serial dilution. For example:

Measure the smallest unit you can.
Say 1 gram for this example.
Add 10 ml of water.
-Now you have 0.1 g/ml.
Add 1 ml of that to another 9 ml of water.
-Now you have 0.01 g/ml.
Continue as necessary.

Hope that helps!

GntlKnigt1
02-10-2014, 03:19 AM
Great technique there, loveofrose.

Fatbloke, this seems to be a part of the challenge I face often over here. For example, I am also big on grilling/smoking meats, and my signature Drunken BBQ sauce uses Heinz Chili sauce, which is not available over here. All the chili sauce here is very runny, comes in a rainbow of colors, and has a lot of sugar added. Ultimately, I ended up finding recipes online for making chili sauce from scratch. I have done that, but the end product is still a bit thin; need to find a way to thicken it up---roux works, but should be an easier way.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

antonioh
02-10-2014, 07:13 AM
Ah! Yes, Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention :>)

GntlKnigt1
02-10-2014, 08:31 AM
Them too...may he RIP.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/necessity-is-the-mother-of-invention.html


Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

Riverat
02-10-2014, 10:18 AM
Great technique there, loveofrose.

Fatbloke, this seems to be a part of the challenge I face often over here. For example, I am also big on grilling/smoking meats, and my signature Drunken BBQ sauce uses Heinz Chili sauce, which is not available over here. All the chili sauce here is very runny, comes in a rainbow of colors, and has a lot of sugar added. Ultimately, I ended up finding recipes online for making chili sauce from scratch. I have done that, but the end product is still a bit thin; need to find a way to thicken it up---roux works, but should be an easier way.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Tried arrow root or cornstarch?

fatbloke
02-10-2014, 10:28 AM
Great technique there, loveofrose.

Fatbloke, this seems to be a part of the challenge I face often over here. For example, I am also big on grilling/smoking meats, and my signature Drunken BBQ sauce uses Heinz Chili sauce, which is not available over here. All the chili sauce here is very runny, comes in a rainbow of colors, and has a lot of sugar added. Ultimately, I ended up finding recipes online for making chili sauce from scratch. I have done that, but the end product is still a bit thin; need to find a way to thicken it up---roux works, but should be an easier way.

Necessity is the mother of invention.
Liquid tannin is one thing Doug, whereas the US type of sauce like chilli is likely a no-no because its full of the diabetics friend.......HFCS

EJM3
02-10-2014, 08:14 PM
Corn syrup of all types are never to darken our door way with their presence... Honey, Stevia, and Evaporated Cane Juice are our mainstays...

loveofrose has my favorite method: Titration/Dilution of a known quantity of whatever you are working with to the proper levels for smaller batches. I use this method with medications, so I know it works well...

joemirando
02-11-2014, 11:30 PM
Necessity is the mother of invention.

Yep. Necessity is a mother! <ggg>

drako824
02-18-2014, 08:27 PM
I didn't bother with calcs. I saw an Oskar recipe with 3 tsp in a 12 gallon batch, so I use 1 tsp per 3 gallons now

You do of course realize that 3 tsp in 12 gallons would equate to 1 tsp in 4 gallons not 3


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mannye
02-18-2014, 08:58 PM
Great technique there, loveofrose.

Fatbloke, this seems to be a part of the challenge I face often over here. For example, I am also big on grilling/smoking meats, and my signature Drunken BBQ sauce uses Heinz Chili sauce, which is not available over here. All the chili sauce here is very runny, comes in a rainbow of colors, and has a lot of sugar added. Ultimately, I ended up finding recipes online for making chili sauce from scratch. I have done that, but the end product is still a bit thin; need to find a way to thicken it up---roux works, but should be an easier way.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/25594-question-about-thickeners/

You're welcome! ;D


EDIT....You're even more welcome!

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/xanthan-gum/?gclid=CJ_t4-P-1rwCFShk7AodTgIA4w

GntlKnigt1
02-19-2014, 01:47 AM
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/25594-question-about-thickeners/

You're welcome! ;D


EDIT....You're even more welcome!

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/xanthan-gum/?gclid=CJ_t4-P-1rwCFShk7AodTgIA4w

Very cool !! Might order some from a place over here,,,,,

GntlKnigt1
02-19-2014, 01:53 AM
You do of course realize that 3 tsp in 12 gallons would equate to 1 tsp in 4 gallons not 3


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Ahh yes.... You caught the hidden question.... good. <Grin>