First batch - aeration? nutrient?

Alban · Feb 7, 2014

Hi everyone,

I started my first batch of mead yesterday, here are a few details:
1.35L of honey
3.6L of mineral water
Yeast K47
1/2 teaspoon of Nutrients
Banana extract (1 banana cut in slices, in boiling water for 30min and then filtered)

All of that in a 5L plastic container.

I tried to follow the instructions as precisely as I could (I even sterilized my whole forearm with boiling water by accident

).
I shaked the must a lot to oxygenate it, then put it in a corner of my room, protected of the light by some stuff.

It started bubbling through the airlock this night (around 6h after I put the yeast in it approximately).
My question was: should I oxygenate and provide some nutrient or is it too late? I read that I had to do it for the first 3 days, but stopping as soon as it was bubbling.

Thanks in advance for you help!

PS: sorry for my english, it's not my native language

GntlKnigt1 · Feb 7, 2014

Yes...you should add diammonium phosphate (DAP) and also micronutrient mixture for yeast, which would likely have yeast hulls, potassium and other minerals. What country are you doing this in?

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

Alban · Feb 7, 2014

I added some DAP at the beggining, so I put a little bit every day for a few (2-3) days? And I have to oxygenate the must, even if the growth phase of the yeast is ended?

An other problem apear when I came back today, I left too little space between the must and the top of my container, so a little bit of must is trying to escape through my airlock. Can I remove it to clean it and put some water in the airlock without any risk?

By the way, I'm in England right now, but I come from France

mmclean · Feb 7, 2014

By the way, I'm in England right now, but I come from France

Wow, did you have to leave the country to make mead?

Will they let you back in if they find out what you have been doing?

mmclean · Feb 7, 2014

Sorry.

Air lock will be fine to clean and replace. No problem.

Alban · Feb 7, 2014

mmclean said:
Wow, did you have to leave the country to make mead?

Will they let you back in if they find out what you have been doing?

Local producers were afraid of competition!

Thanks for the airlock, that's what I thought!
And concerning the oxygenation? Is it ok even if it's already bubbling? (every 9scd or less vs every 16scd this morning)

mmclean · Feb 7, 2014

I like to aerate twice a day up to the 1/3 sugar break.

After that just a slow stir once a day until I am ready to rack off the gross lees.

MJ7 · Feb 7, 2014

Alban said:
Local producers were afraid of competition!

Thanks for the airlock, that's what I thought!
And concerning the oxygenation? Is it ok even if it's already bubbling? (every 9scd or less vs every 16scd this morning)

I've been told only to aerate in the beginning, this is coming from seasoned mazers. If you aerate you can oxidize the must and your overall flavor profile will resemble sherry. It's only needed to get the yeast going, you should not have to aerate after this.

I would be more worried about the plastic container you are fermenting in, as I have spoken to plenty of people that have had finished products that tasted like plastic.

fatbloke · Feb 7, 2014

MJ7 said:
I've been told only to aerate in the beginning, this is coming from seasoned mazers. If you aerate you can oxidize the must and your overall flavor profile will resemble sherry. It's only needed to get the yeast going, you should not have to aerate after this.

I would be more worried about the plastic container you are fermenting in, as I have spoken to plenty of people that have had finished products that tasted like plastic.

Both points are bum steers........

Yeast need oxygen to develop properly. The suggestion of aeration down to the 1/3rd sugar break is a guide that gives a fixed point to aim for, to allow for an appropriate level of fermentation.

Oxidation can indeed make a sherry like note.......hows that gonna happen if the yeast cells grab any they can get on the way past and any that builds up at the liquid/air space interface is pushed out as CO2 is heavier than air/O2 so sits under it during active ferment......

Plasticisers leeching out is an issue with polycarbonate as its made with BPA's. HDPE and PET are fine for the ferment. Its usually suggested to use glass for aging as the plastics are slightly oxygen permeable. Oxidation is a slow process plus alcohol being a solvent its feasible that it could damage or weaken the plastic, yet if this were an issue why would "they" use 1000ltr IBC's to ship 95.6% NGS ?

Plus there'd be no such thing as a plastic fermenter..........

MJ7 · Feb 7, 2014

fatbloke said:
Both points are bum steers........

Yeast need oxygen to develop properly. The suggestion of aeration down to the 1/3rd sugar break is a guide that gives a fixed point to aim for, to allow for an appropriate level of fermentation.

Oxidation can indeed make a sherry like note.......hows that gonna happen if the yeast cells grab any they can get on the way past and any that builds up at the liquid/air space interface is pushed out as CO2 is heavier than air/O2 so sits under it during active ferment......

Plasticisers leeching out is an issue with polycarbonate as its made with BPA's. HDPE and PET are fine for the ferment. Its usually suggested to use glass for aging as the plastics are slightly oxygen permeable. Oxidation is a slow process plus alcohol being a solvent its feasible that it could damage or weaken the plastic, yet if this were an issue why would "they" use 1000ltr IBC's to ship 95.6% NGS ?

Plus there'd be no such thing as a plastic fermenter..........

Many assumptions here, I will take first hand accounts over assumptions any day. The OP did not state what type of material his plastic was comprised of either.

GntlKnigt1 · Feb 8, 2014

I agree with Fatbloke. Stir/degas/oxygenate to the 1/3 sugar break is a typical and usual practice. I often do so even beyond that point and have not had a batch oxidize yet (well, perhaps one). If you add nutrients every day or according to a schedule, you are practicing SNA---Stepped Nutrient Additions. I (usually) don't do that... and just front load the the DAP and nutrients, although some manufacturer's biologists suggest that cell walls are stronger with SNA. And, the advantages of doing primary fermentation in a pail are so great that I am baffled that anyone tries to do it in a carboy. Don't get me wrong; I love my carboys, but using them as primary fermenters is rather like driving a cement mixer to the store for your weekly groceries. You could do it, but why?

MourneMead · Feb 8, 2014

GntlKnigt1 said:
Don't get me wrong; I love my carboys, but using them as primary fermenters is rather like driving a cement mixer to the store for your weekly groceries. You could do it, but why?

I treble this - but it took me a while to realise it.

fatbloke · Feb 8, 2014

MJ7 said:
Many assumptions here, I will take first hand accounts over assumptions any day. The OP did not state what type of material his plastic was comprised of either.

No...... I was alluding to your previous post my friend.......

rtu · Feb 8, 2014

From the BJCP Mead Study Guide, pg 92:

Anyone who has ever stirred a fermenting beverage knows the foaming, triggered by the release
of CO2, can make one heck of a mess! To help minimize this, you should mix the nutrient blend
into ½ cup of must and add it back to the fermenter. Then begin to slowly stir the must to release
the main portion of the CO2 gas. After the foaming has subsided you can begin to stir more
vigorously. Mix the must well enough to introduce plenty of oxygen into the fermenting must.
Oxygen is needed by the yeast throughout the growth phase. Oxidation is not a huge concern
until you get past 50 percent sugar depletion.

There are other, more scientific references that I have read but for some silly reason I did not add them to my list of reference material. I'll have to rectify that.

MJ7 · Feb 8, 2014

GntlKnigt1 said:
I love my carboys, but using them as primary fermenters is rather like driving a cement mixer to the store for your weekly groceries. You could do it, but why?

For melomel I could see an advantage if you have a lot of fruit, cleaning that out of a glass carboy would be a pain.

There is no worry doing a primary and secondary in a glass carboy, many follow that train of thought, even some food grade plastics leak oxygen.

Alban · Feb 8, 2014

Thanks for all these replies!

Don't worry for my carboy, it's PET, I don't think it will cause any problem. It's just for the fermentation, I will not let my mead in it for 3 years...
But why a carboy and not a pail? Well I guess because I have no idea of what I'm doing

Actually, it was just a trial, a friend is visiting me in a few weeks and I wanted my mead to be drinkable for him. Then no switch in a 2nd fermenter, nor racking. It's probably a blaspheme for you, but next bacth will be more correct, I promise you.

By the way, floculation occurs in my must, but I think it's not really a big deal.

I'm still waiting for my hydrometer to have more precise data. I know it will be useless without the initiall SG but it's better than nothing

rtu · Feb 8, 2014

Alban said:
Thanks for all these replies!

Don't worry for my carboy, it's PET, I don't think it will cause any problem. It's just for the fermentation, I will not let my mead in it for 3 years...
But why a carboy and not a pail?

What is the pail made from? No matter the material, if it's what I think of as a pail, which is a bucket with a large, very difficult to seal opening, then the carboy is better given the better sealing capability.

Alban said:
By the way, floculation occurs in my must, but I think it's not really a big deal.

That is what you want. As the fermentation slows and stops the yeast die off and settle to the bottom.

Alban · Feb 15, 2014

I finally received my hydrometer, which will allow me to do something a little bit less random.

At day 9 (today), the SG is of 1042; since I don't know the original SG, it's less usefull but still good to know.

The taste seems ok, still quite sweet, with the correct acidity, and it surprisingly (at least for me) tastes like cider.
However, it does not seems reall complex, and I fear a lack of body despit the banana extract; but it's probably too soon make this kind of assumptions.

What is more worrying is the fermentation: it is still active, but quite slow (about every minute and a half), especially compare to the first week with a peak of bubbling every 6 seconds.

Does it seems normal?

MJ7 · Feb 15, 2014

Alban said:
I finally received my hydrometer, which will allow me to do something a little bit less random.

At day 9 (today), the SG is of 1042; since I don't know the original SG, it's less usefull but still good to know.

The taste seems ok, still quite sweet, with the correct acidity, and it surprisingly (at least for me) tastes like cider.
However, it does not seems reall complex, and I fear a lack of body despit the banana extract; but it's probably too soon make this kind of assumptions.

What is more worrying is the fermentation: it is still active, but quite slow (about every minute and a half), especially compare to the first week with a peak of bubbling every 6 seconds.

Does it seems normal?

This is normal for a D47, it was a D47 yeast you used (and not a K47?), correct?

You are probably 7-10 days before it goes dry at 1.005 or lower. If you want to let the yeast finish go head, if you want to preserve some of the sweetness and flavor from the honey try to stop the ferment anywhere between 1.010-1.020.

Good luck.

Alban · Feb 15, 2014

MJ7 said:
This is normal for a D47, it was a D47 yeast you used (and not a K47?), correct?

You are probably 7-10 days before it goes dry at 1.005 or lower. If you want to let the yeast finish go head, if you want to preserve some of the sweetness and flavor from the honey try to stop the ferment anywhere between 1.010-1.020.

Good luck.

Yes you're right, D47, not K47, my bad.

Thanks for the answer!
As I would prefer keep it relatively pure, how should I rack it? I don't have enough room in my fridge, and I presume outside temperature is not cold enough to stop the fermentation process. Is there a solution or I can't skip sulfites?

Also, can I transfer my batch in a secondary fermentation tank for the racking, even if it's a 5L tank for a 4L batch? I think it should be avoided

First batch - aeration? nutrient?

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