PDA

View Full Version : First batch: No raisins or airlock, added more yeast. Oh boy.



Kiba
02-07-2014, 02:51 PM
Being a Celtic pagan, I've decided to take the plunge and start making mead in time for my birthday and Ostara. Unfortunately, I forgot the raisins and the only ones I had at home were the yogurt-covered ones, and by then I was getting really impatient to just make something, so I did a quick Google search and found somewhat conflicting messages:

1) You need raisins to get more nutrients for the yeast. NO SKIPPING.

2) The ancient people needed raisins because wild yeast was much less robust than modern yeast. No raisins are fine, it's become a harmless throwback by now.

3) You need raisins because of the grapes' natural yeast cultures. NO SKIPPING.

4) The ancient people needed raisins because they needed more yeast AND more nutrients. Modern yeast is more robust, so just add 50% more yeast if you forget the raisins.

As for my recipe currently:

-I mixed it up yesterday (February 6) and tied a double-layer of muslin over the top of the jug, since I didn't want to wait two weeks for an airlock and it's pretty safe to say there are very few bugs in North California's winter that would need to be kept out of my mead.

-It's based off this short-mead/reduced variant (http://amazingmead.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/orange-spiced-short-mead-drinkable-in-3-weeks/) of Joe's Ancient Orange.

-My ingredients are: Rita Miller Wildflower Honey (2lbs), Red Star bread yeast (1.5 tsp), half an orange, and half a gallon of Arrowhead water.

-----
Clearly, my approach to mead is VERY scientific and thought-out.

As of today, my mead smells mostly like orange juice, but with a tiny hint of yeast. So far it's fizzing slowly but steadily in my room, most likely due to the cold weather. (My kitchen is warm, but it's also pretty bright and I have very little room because it's an apartment kitchen. I decided to go with a dark and slightly cold room with more space, as opposed to a warmer but well-lit and crowded one.)

The world hasn't imploded yet, so should I keep on with this batch, or buy some supplies and make proper one just in case? I have a couple pictures of the jug, so if anyone wants to see, I can put the first day and first evening's shots in my next post.

fatbloke
02-07-2014, 11:58 PM
The extra yeast thing is rubbish.......

The reduced honey will mean that the yeast will ferment it dry and you'll likely taste the orange pith......

Get rainsins during the day and put them in........

Change the cloth top for either a childs rubber balloon that you've put some pin holes in or some pieces of cling wrap that are secured with a rubber band - either will let excess gas out but maintain a little positive pressure......

mannye
02-08-2014, 12:08 AM
You still have time to add the correct amount of honey and the raisins. If you don't add the honey, as FB says, it will go dry and be vile until your NEXT birthday or round about the next total solar eclipse on March 20th, 2015. Don't panic. Just pop 'round to the store and "GET THE HONEY JUNIOR" (extra points to whoever guesses the reference)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9HNDDcMgQ

Kiba
02-08-2014, 01:50 AM
You still have time to add the correct amount of honey and the raisins. If you don't add the honey, as FB says, it will go dry and be vile until your NEXT birthday or round about the next total solar eclipse on March 20th, 2015. Don't panic. Just pop 'round to the store and "GET THE HONEY JUNIOR" (extra points to whoever guesses the reference)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9HNDDcMgQ


The extra yeast thing is rubbish.......

The reduced honey will mean that the yeast will ferment it dry and you'll likely taste the orange pith......

Get rainsins during the day and put them in........

Change the cloth top for either a childs rubber balloon that you've put some pin holes in or some pieces of cling wrap that are secured with a rubber band - either will let excess gas out but maintain a little positive pressure......

So general consensus is: More honey (just another pound, or double it to four pounds?), get some raisins, and make a proper jury-rigged airlock out of saran wrap.

That's surprisingly fixable. I actually switched the cloth out for saran-wrap right after reading, so now it's just more honey and getting a box or two of raisins.

Chevette Girl
02-08-2014, 01:04 PM
Looking at your log, you've pretty much halved the JAO recipe aside from the yeast so you might be OK, but honestly, the JAO recipe is good. It works. And there's still time to make this be a JAO. Just add another pound and a half of honey, the other half of the orange, a cinnamon stick and the box of raisins, top it up to a gallon. The jugs that spring water comes in are great for this.

Kiba
02-08-2014, 01:30 PM
So I might just make a full gallon of mead after all, but the previous posters just said I needed to get more honey to balance out the yeast, not that I had to double everything back to JOA's recipe. Is either way fine? And my sister bakes, so I may not need to buy cinnamon. Is the powdered form okay, or should I get a stick?

mannye
02-08-2014, 02:10 PM
Take a look at the JAOM recipe which you seem to be close to and just the amount that it recommends. That should get you to an acceptable level.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

Kiba
02-08-2014, 04:49 PM
Take a look at the JAOM recipe which you seem to be close to and just the amount that it recommends. That should get you to an acceptable level.

I mentioned this right in my first post.


It's based off this short-mead/reduced variant (http://amazingmead.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/orange-spiced-short-mead-drinkable-in-3-weeks/) of Joe's Ancient Orange.

I'm not opposed to making the original version of Joe's Ancient Orange for May Day/Bealtaine celebrations, but I picked the reduced three-week variant because 1) I don't know whether me and my sister can finish a full gallon of mead in a timely manner, and 2) I was planning on having mead for my birthday.

mannye
02-08-2014, 05:08 PM
Regardless, adding more yeast is not going to speed up the ferment. It just makes the yeast work less. Not faster. So the mead will not be done any faster (if I am understanding what you were trying to do). It's better to have sweeter mead on your birthday that you can maybe dilute with some club soda and drink vs a bitter pithy drink you can't do anything with.

Actually, if you can get your hands on 1388, you still have time to make a gallon of BOMM that will be ready for you.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

Kiba
02-08-2014, 05:25 PM
I wasn't trying to make the yeast work faster. I was attempting to use an existing short-mead recipe and then forgot the raisins.

Then due to the conflicting messages I found on Google, I thought that I needed to add more yeast to compensate for the lack of whatever help the raisins provided. Turns out I was wrong, and I could have just kept it to a teaspoon of yeast like the original recipe.

If I'm right: The first two posters said that to fix the "too much yeast" problem, I just need to get a box of raisins and add another pound of honey, and I'll have a half-gallon of drinkable mead in about a month, like I originally intended.

Riverat
02-08-2014, 05:42 PM
If you are going to leave it at a half a gallon you need no more honey (actually a bit less, thus folks recommending scaling it up), just food for the yeast, that is the raisons, also find someplace a bit warmer to keep it..
Looks like you have half a JAOM variant minus the clove and the cinnamon stick, I'm not a big fan of JAOM but many are, but while this may be drinkable in that time frame, it won't be ready by most folks standards.

Kiba
02-08-2014, 06:45 PM
So no honey, but definitely raisins, and I'll see if I can find a warmer spot than my room. The raisins should be non-sulfited, right?

Riverat
02-08-2014, 07:09 PM
Ay-fermative!

Kiba
02-08-2014, 07:59 PM
Right then! I added 12 or 13 Nice! brand raisins, and I gave the mead a few stirs so the raisins wouldn't sit on top of the oranges. Holy crap, it's fizzing enough for me to hear it and to make the saran-wrap bulge out--it hasn't even been ten minutes.

Jury's still up on the warmer spot, though. Even my kitchen's pretty cool now, due to the weather. Of all times for North California to finally get rain, it's when I want to make mead.

Edit: Found a warmer and relatively dark spot in the kitchen. My mead should be at least a few degrees warmer in a few hours.

Kiba
02-08-2014, 09:19 PM
Aaaand I had to move it back to my room because it turned out to be an awkward spot, once we actually had to do stuff in the kitchen. Apartment-living, sigh.

Still fizzing pretty well, though. It seems to be cycling between relative stillness or slow fizzing, and then spurts of heavy fizzing every hour or so--is that normal?

Honeyhog
02-08-2014, 09:33 PM
The pressure likely builds up, it fizzes heavily for a while until the pressure drops then it slows down and the pressure builds up again etc, etc.

fatbloke
02-08-2014, 11:18 PM
Don't forget, you dont get the full volume of whatever you make. You will lose some when siphoning etc.

I make my JOA to 1 imp gallon/4.55 litres and once its finished the ferment, the fruit has dropped and its clear, I get about 4 x 750ml bottles. Its usually working out about 11 to 12% ABV, so about a similar strength to a wine.

Now I don't do religions etc, so whether its used in a representative sort of way or something, I don't know, just that keeping the honey down will affect the palatability of it.

if it is used like that, representing something in a ceremonial type way, there's still likely no reason for it not to be as enjoyable as you can make it.....

If you're making it to 1 US gallon size you shoul end up with 3 to 3 and a half bottles. So id depends on how much needs to be used etc. It certainly isn't difficult for two people to get through that much in a session......

Kiba
02-09-2014, 12:10 AM
It's not going to be a big ritual--I just figured that if I was going to make some mead, making it in time for a pagan holiday would be ideal. I'm pretty low-key in ritual; after the mead's cleared and I'm pretty sure it tastes good, I'll rack it to a clean container and dedicate the first official cup (not including "check the taste sips") to the Irish gods.

Then I get drunk. :D

I hear mead gives horrific hangovers, but my first taste of it was Chaucer's and I had about half the bottle with an average hangover. I didn't want to get up and I couldn't talk for an hour or two, but it was hardly the head-splitting agony that some people say mead causes. But Chaucer's is known for being average to sub-par, though--it tasted like the drink equivalent of cardboard. And I'd made sure to eat and drink something beforehand, so that probably helped a lot.

Just to plan ahead: If the mead clears ahead of time and I think it tastes good, would I be able to stick it in the fridge/freezer for a while to kill the yeast off?

Also, how long should I wait before checking the taste? The intended aging time is three weeks, so should I taste-check in two weeks?

It's starting to smell pretty nice now--there's a faintly sweet undertone to the original orange-juice scent, which I'm pretty sure is the honey.

EJM3
02-11-2014, 12:27 AM
It's not going to be a big ritual--I just figured that if I was going to make some mead, making it in time for a pagan holiday would be ideal. I'm pretty low-key in ritual; after the mead's cleared and I'm pretty sure it tastes good, I'll rack it to a clean container and dedicate the first official cup (not including "check the taste sips") to the Irish gods.

Then I get drunk. :D

I hear mead gives horrific hangovers, but my first taste of it was Chaucer's and I had about half the bottle with an average hangover. I didn't want to get up and I couldn't talk for an hour or two, but it was hardly the head-splitting agony that some people say mead causes. But Chaucer's is known for being average to sub-par, though--it tasted like the drink equivalent of cardboard. And I'd made sure to eat and drink something beforehand, so that probably helped a lot.

Just to plan ahead: If the mead clears ahead of time and I think it tastes good, would I be able to stick it in the fridge/freezer for a while to kill the yeast off?

Also, how long should I wait before checking the taste? The intended aging time is three weeks, so should I taste-check in two weeks?

It's starting to smell pretty nice now--there's a faintly sweet undertone to the original orange-juice scent, which I'm pretty sure is the honey.



I've heard the same about mead hangovers. So far out of a dozen or so bottles of Sky River (A local Washington State Meadery) sweet & semi-sweet meads (I have 2 more brands of mead on order with my local liquor store owner, she want to try them almost as much as I do apparently!!), polishing off a bottle in one night has not produced a hangover for me... Then again my tolerance for things may be a little higher than some other peoples... ;D

fatbloke
02-11-2014, 03:54 AM
I don't get hungover from a bottle of mead either. Red wines and dark spirits are a different matter......

I only just noticed the reference to a half gallon sized batch......

Can't make my mind up whether it should have been half an orange to keep within the JAO framework and proportions. If it did come out a bit to pithy, then it can just be stabilised and sweetened which should mask that.......

Plus the point of making meads at home Vs commercial made, is that it seems people often prefer the home stuff over the commercial. Whether it really is better, whether its the pride of having made it yourself or whether it because you have more control over the end product, I don't know.

just that I do prefer my own ones to the commercially made ones I've tasted.........

GntlKnigt1
02-11-2014, 11:11 AM
Yeah...i prefer my own stuff even over commercial wines, which most americans would envy at the range of varieties available at these low prices. With the exception of the wine selections at Trader Joes (a division of Aldi), it is hard to find quality wines for less than $10 per bottle.

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

Kiba
02-11-2014, 07:53 PM
Just letting you guys know that I ended up making a full gallon of JOA anyway, due to mistaking a full gallon jug for a half-gallon. Still, I'm going to make an entirely new half-gallon batch by tomorrow.

EJM3
02-11-2014, 08:50 PM
Just to plan ahead: If the mead clears ahead of time and I think it tastes good, would I be able to stick it in the fridge/freezer for a while to kill the yeast off?


You can cold crash in the refrigerator, but that takes a couple weeks, and is not a guarantee that you got enough of the yeasties out to stop a refermentation. Unless you go completely dry, and even then I have been reading stories of sparkling mead, when it was originally bottled still. So if there are any amounts of sugars left over you could end up with sparkling mead or Bottle Bombs.

Sticking it in the freezer may clear it faster, but from my own personal (ongoing!) experiments it increases the yeasty, toasted bread like flavors, increases the buttery/creamy mouthfeel, and lots of other characteristics I can't put into words are changed drastically. I started a thread on Freeze Crashing, but I am out of experiments for now...

Just from my understanding of how things work that is! I am FAR from an expert on these things. Someone correct me if I am wrong....

MJ7
02-11-2014, 09:00 PM
You can cold crash in the refrigerator, but that takes a couple weeks, and is not a guarantee that you got enough of them out to stop a refermentation. Unless you go completely dry, and even then I have been reading stories of sparkling mead, when it was originally bottled still. So if there are any amounts of sugars left over you could end up with sparkling mead or Bottle Bombs.

Sticking it in the freezer may clear it faster, but from my own personal (ongoing!) experiments it increases the yeasty, toasted bread like flavors, increases the buttery/creamy mouthfeel, and lots of other characteristics I can't put into words are changed drastically. I started a thread on Freeze Crashing, but I am out of experiments for now...

Just from my understanding of how things work that is! I am FAR from an expert on these things. Someone correct me if I am wrong....

There's really only one way to kill off the yeast, heat them up...but doing that is a no no because it will alter the must and final product too much. Cold crashing around 40 degrees F will suffice. Stick it in your refrigerator for a week. This will not kill the yeast, it will make them drop. After a week rack it, then if still cloudy cold crash it again, this could take several crashes. Continue until clear. Once that is complete you will want to stabilize the yeast with sorbate. Add potassium sorbate to your mead 48 hours before bottling, this will inhibit the yeast from reproducing and should prevent bottle bombs.

mannye
02-11-2014, 11:09 PM
I remember (relative term) the first time a bunch of co-workers and I got rip roaring drunk on a keg of homebrew. We were all pleasantly surprised at how light the hangover was considering how totally wrecked we were. This was before the internet was real so the guy at the LHBS said it was because yeast trub has b vitamins and helped the liver metabolize the alcohol. I still haven't gotten totally f-ed up on mead YET so I don't know if that's true with mead as well.

EJM3
02-12-2014, 07:06 AM
I remember (relative term) the first time a bunch of co-workers and I got rip roaring drunk on a keg of homebrew. We were all pleasantly surprised at how light the hangover was considering how totally wrecked we were. This was before the internet was real so the guy at the LHBS said it was because yeast trub has b vitamins and helped the liver metabolize the alcohol. I still haven't gotten totally f-ed up on mead YET so I don't know if that's true with mead as well.

I am not sure about the B-Vitamin connection with low to no hangovers (I'd be buying them in bulk if that were so!!!) But my experiences with alcohols of MANY types over many years (I am a former bar owner, restaurateur, comp tech, amatuer chef, and a few other well worn work hats and collars as well), is that with or without added B-Vitamins, amino acids, etc, of all types, I have never seen a "scientific study" done.

I have never heard of using them in alcoholic ferments, until now and on this site... so I have started researching this and other sites for their chemistry/biology/molecular chem/etc. So far the data is sparse to nil. But that all of my ferments have so far not had any real problems is pretty good I think.. but then again I am not [paid to think! In fact I am not paid at all...

YOUR tolerances for the aldehydes, esters, phenols, etc that are produced (flavors & aromatic compounds) and not mine or anyone elses, will lead you to YOUR preferences... Plus a ton of other variables, volatiles, fermentable, non-fermentables, etc.. that contribute to the complexity in ways that it will take me years, IF EVER, to BEGIN to understand!!!! The complexities of what is going on here with ferments of ALL types is so complex it is almost (ALMOST!!!) unpredictable. Mead, cyser, cider, melomel, etc are all VERY different, and just need individual TLC...

With any mead, melomel, etc... Mine, yours & others, JAOM, BOMM, Tupilo honey, OB honey, whatever! We all need to kibitz here and elsewhere so that we can create something that is at least in OUR (mine and my partners anyway) minds mouth, something that can be put into our mouths to affect out minds!!!

(Sorry, babbling again..)

Kiba
02-12-2014, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the advice about the cold-crashing. My room is already rather cool most of the time, so clearing shouldn't be a problem and if not, I'll stick it in the fridge for the last week.

One more question: For the short-mead batch, when should I taste-check it? One or two weeks? I know that longer meads or even the full gallon of Joe's Ancient Orange should be tasted after the first month, but I'm not sure I've read about people taste-checking short meads; the creator of the short-mead recipe I'm using seems to have just left it for the full three weeks.

GntlKnigt1
02-12-2014, 06:54 PM
You haven't tasted it already? Hmm.... Many folks quit making 1 gallon batches due to excessive tasting loss.....

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

Honeyhog
02-12-2014, 10:01 PM
You haven't tasted it already? Hmm.... Many folks quit making 1 gallon batches due to excessive tasting loss....
This is where my 2/3 gallon or 2.78? liter apple juice jugs come in handy, hahahahahaha.

mannye
02-12-2014, 10:32 PM
Yeah...i prefer my own stuff even over commercial wines, which most americans would envy at the range of varieties available at these low prices. With the exception of the wine selections at Trader Joes (a division of Aldi), it is hard to find quality wines for less than $10 per bottle.

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

Is Trader Joes where one can find the famous Two Buck Chuck? I've always wanted to try it since Captain Slow and that other guy did the wine show. They interviewed the famous "Chuck" and the wine snob dude said the wine was perfectly OK.

GntlKnigt1
02-13-2014, 03:18 AM
Is Trader Joes where one can find the famous Two Buck Chuck? I've always wanted to try it since Captain Slow and that other guy did the wine show. They interviewed the famous "Chuck" and the wine snob dude said the wine was perfectly OK.

Yes.... the home of 2 buck Chuck (Charles Shaw wines), only it was $3 in Illinois... only in CA was it $2. But Trader Joe's seems to do a great job of finding good wines by other people for less than $10. They don't have Trader Joe's over here but sometimes the Aldi has products with the Trader Joe's labels. Perhaps the 'child' company has gotten bigger than the 'parent' !

Kiba
02-13-2014, 05:36 PM
You haven't tasted it already? Hmm.... Many folks quit making 1 gallon batches due to excessive tasting loss.....

It's only been a few days for both batches, but I suppose I can put the taste-checking intervals to a weekly schedule. Maybe I'll start after two weeks for the JOA and one week for the three-week batch, so I could start tasting them on the 19th or 20th to see if they're doing all right.

Would a clean syringe or straw be okay as a low-budget wine thief, at least until I find a proper one?

mannye
02-13-2014, 07:45 PM
It's only been a few days for both batches, but I suppose I can put the taste-checking intervals to a weekly schedule. Maybe I'll start after two weeks for the JOA and one week for the three-week batch, so I could start tasting them on the 19th or 20th to see if they're doing all right.

Would a clean syringe or straw be okay as a low-budget wine thief, at least until I find a proper one?

Anything works as long as you sterilize it first. Many folks use a turkey baster. Amazon has a cheap mini-thief that's perfect for one gallon jugs.

http://www.amazon.com/Glass-Wine-Thief-12-diameter/dp/B0064O9BYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392335083&sr=8-1&keywords=wine+thief

Kiba
02-14-2014, 01:02 AM
Huh, I didn't know wine thieves were that cheap. I knew they wouldn't cost too much, but still--five to ten dollars is pretty awesome.

But for now I'll go with a syringe or a baster, since I can just drop by the store for either one.

GntlKnigt1
02-14-2014, 09:57 AM
Yeah....right. turkey basters are impossible to find in Netherlands

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

mannye
02-14-2014, 10:55 AM
Really? Why on earth would a country not have a use for a baster? How much easier would it be to baste bitterballen if you had one? Well, if you had basters, I bet bitterballen would be basted!!! How many bitterballen would you baste if you had a bitterballen baster? Ha! Say that 10 times fast.

But back to the thread. If you do use a turkey baster or other implement such as a straw, use a brand new one that won't have any residual oils from food.

From my beer days, anything that touched the wort was bought only for beer.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

Kiba
02-14-2014, 03:54 PM
I'm in America, the land of meat-eaters, so basters are a dime a dozen here.

I mix my own shampoo/soap already and use various non-food oils, so separating specialized utensils and containers isn't new information for me. Thanks for the reminder, though!

Chevette Girl
02-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Then due to the conflicting messages I found on Google, I thought that I needed to add more yeast to compensate for the lack of whatever help the raisins provided. Turns out I was wrong, and I could have just kept it to a teaspoon of yeast like the original recipe.

You're not entirely wrong, actually, for two reasons -
1) the yeast needs extra nutrients to replicate, they don't really need much once they've reached their critical mass and turn their attention to processing sugar into ethanol, so in theory if you add enough yeast, they don't need to replicate so they don't need the nutrients. In theory. But you don't want overcrowding either, which I think is why we just add one packet and let them do their thing until they think they've reached their population maximum.
2) yeast contains a lot of the things yeast needs, which sounds kind of redundant, but many of us have used yeast to feed yeast (the little cannibals!) but typically in order for your growing yeast colony to have access to any nutrients contained by other yeast, the "other" yeast needs to be lysed (popped to spill their guts) which can be done by boiling or microwaving it in water.


I hear mead gives horrific hangovers, but my first taste of it was Chaucer's and I had about half the bottle with an average hangover.

Just to plan ahead: If the mead clears ahead of time and I think it tastes good, would I be able to stick it in the fridge/freezer for a while to kill the yeast off?

Also, how long should I wait before checking the taste? The intended aging time is three weeks, so should I taste-check in two weeks?


Hangovers are kind of a personal thing, I get a worse hangover from unstabilized wines than I do from wines that have been treated with sulphites and my alcohol tolerance exceeded my hangover tolerance some time ago, which means I have been hungover without being drunk. So I have to drink a little more carefully. There are also factors others have alluded to (like red wine tannins) that can affect the severity of your hangover, but to find out what's best and worst for you will require extensive experimentation ;D

As others have said, freezing won't kill yeast and if you're concerned about bottling too early and making bottle bombs, you'll want to take one of the following approaches for safety -
1) stabilize with chemicals before bottling
2) check with a hydrometer to make sure fermentation has actually stopped
3) bottle in screw-top or flip-top bottles and check them every few days, if you get a hiss of carbonation, let them bleed off any pressure buildup, keeping the bottles refrigerated will slow any CO2 production right down too.

When to taste? Any time you like, but just be aware that your mead will go through some stages that may taste pretty awful one week and great the next, depending on things like bitterness extraction, residual sugars, carbonation and suspended yeast. I generally always taste mine before I pitch the yeast and then after fermentation has ceased and I rack it to another vessel, but for some batches where I'm in there every day anyway either aerating or stirring, I'll catch some drips off the implements and see how things are going.



But back to the thread. If you do use a turkey baster or other implement such as a straw, use a brand new one that won't have any residual oils from food.

Having tried using a turkey baster early on in my winemaking, I heartily suggest a syringe or wine thief, basters are messy and must is thin enough that it dribbles back out the rather large hole as you're taking it from the mouth of the fermentation vessel and whatever you're transferring it to unless you upend it into the ball, and who knows how clean you can get the inside of the baster?

And with respect to separate tools for must/non-food/etc, I don't apply that rule to stainless steel because it can be both cleaned and sanitized pretty thoroughly, but I definitely have separate sets of plastic items for homemade vinegar, jams and jellies and must... and the greasy car stuff stays in the garage!! :)

MJ7
02-15-2014, 12:18 PM
You're not entirely wrong, actually, for two reasons - 1) the yeast needs extra nutrients to replicate, they don't really need much once they've reached their critical mass and turn their attention to processing sugar into ethanol, so in theory if you add enough yeast, they don't need to replicate so they don't need the nutrients. In theory.


Highly debatable, depends on the yeast. Some yeast are so aggressive if there isn't enough food/nutes to go around they will try to feed on themselves, and this of course will add for unwanted off flavors.

mannye
02-15-2014, 01:46 PM
And with respect to separate tools for must/non-food/etc, I don't apply that rule to stainless steel because it can be both cleaned and sanitized pretty thoroughly, but I definitely have separate sets of plastic items for homemade vinegar, jams and jellies and must... and the greasy car stuff stays in the garage!! :)

I agree about the stainless but I'm still beer paranoid and even keep stainless exclusive for brewing. Its overkill but I can't not do it!

Chevette Girl
02-15-2014, 03:05 PM
Highly debatable, depends on the yeast. Some yeast are so aggressive if there isn't enough food/nutes to go around they will try to feed on themselves, and this of course will add for unwanted off flavors.

As I said, in theory. And there's gotta be some good reasons why way overpitching is not common practice, more than likely including yours. But an extra teaspoon in a gallon shouldn't cause that much political strife among the yeast population, when you consider the lees from a good batch is probably a hundred times that volume in dead yeast :)


I agree about the stainless but I'm still beer paranoid and even keep stainless exclusive for brewing. Its overkill but I can't not do it!


I won't disagree, it's a good idea... even my stainless jam and jelly stuff isn't allowed near the regular cooking implements, although it's more for fear of abuse than contamination... "If it can't handle the way I cook, it shouldn't be in the kitchen," says my husband... so the stuff I don't want him breaking is hidden.

Kiba
02-15-2014, 09:57 PM
Huh, that part about using yeast to feed more yeast seems a bit like how plants grow better if they have more dead plants to feed off of. I'll keep that in mind.

EJM3
02-18-2014, 06:52 AM
Really? Why on earth would a country not have a use for a baster? How much easier would it be to baste bitterballen if you had one? Well, if you had basters, I bet bitterballen would be basted!!! How many bitterballen would you baste if you had a bitterballen baster? Ha! Say that 10 times fast.


Actually we usually end up eating stamppot van boerenkool met worst at least once to twice a month. We grow lots of kale here... I have tried the turkey baster method and it just dribbles out all over if you are not careful AND fast AND accurate. I just use a 5, 10, or 20 ml syringe to take small samples now, MUCH EASIER!


I won't disagree, it's a good idea... even my stainless jam and jelly stuff isn't allowed near the regular cooking implements, although it's more for fear of abuse than contamination... "If it can't handle the way I cook, it shouldn't be in the kitchen," says my husband... so the stuff I don't want him breaking is hidden.

Yeah, gotta hide all the good but delicate, or specialized and delicate, or just the good and/or specialized equipment from him at all times, if I don't want to run to the store once a week for replacements!!!


You're not entirely wrong, actually, for two reasons -

2) yeast contains a lot of the things yeast needs, which sounds kind of redundant, but many of us have used yeast to feed yeast (the little cannibals!) but typically in order for your growing yeast colony to have access to any nutrients contained by other yeast, the "other" yeast needs to be lysed (popped to spill their guts) which can be done by boiling or microwaving it in water.

And with respect to separate tools for must/non-food/etc, I don't apply that rule to stainless steel because it can be both cleaned and sanitized pretty thoroughly, but I definitely have separate sets of plastic items for homemade vinegar, jams and jellies and must... and the greasy car stuff stays in the garage!! :) [/COLOR]

I buy my bread yeast in bulk 1 pound bricks, I just add a couple tablespoons to a cup of water, and boil the crap out of it until it starts to form a sludge, then I mix in some must, and toss it in the fermentor.

And the greasy car stuff comes out once a year to make Chevette Girl Wierd-o-Mel. Shifter knob if I remember right....