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Liekos
05-28-2014, 03:19 AM
Hi folks,

So I mixed up a 5 gallon batch of jaom, and it's been 2.5 months without any fruit dropping yet. In fact, there's a raisin or two suspended a 5-6 inches above the bottom just hanging out there apparently in happy neutral buoyancy.

Few questions..

1. How long should I expect for "the drop" in this case? I'm in WA and it's still been getting somewhat cold, and that doesn't seem to moving things along. As summer gets started, a cold night seems less and less likely (I've heard such a night can help the fruit degass).

2. Is there anything I should do? I'd prefer to leave it be and have it take however long it wants but...

3. Is there an amount of time that is too long to leave it sitting on the bread yeast? Normally I thought you are supposed to rack non-jaom off the gross lees after a month or so, but what about this? If I get to 4 months without racking off is it going to be gross?

The 3rd question is mostly the concern, my 1 gallon jaom a few months ago turned out well, but I wasn't patient enough to wait for the fruit to drop (still good though). Want to make sure I do it "right" with the 5 gallon.

Thanks!

Liekos
05-28-2014, 03:25 AM
And yes it has cleared well..

bernardsmith
05-28-2014, 12:25 PM
Hi Leikos. I have never made JAOM and so don't know whether 5 gallons will behave the same way 1 gallon might in matters of buoyancy and fruit - but I question the idea that cool weather aids degassing. Take two cans of coke and open them. Put one in the fridge and keep the other on your table. The next day pour each into a separate glass. My money is on the one that had been in the fridge is more likely to have more effervescence than the one you had at room temperature. Moreover, when I degas wines I aim to pull the CO2 from the wines at higher temperatures (closer to 70 F than the temperatures at which I allow the same wines to age (closer to 60 F).

Liekos
05-28-2014, 05:36 PM
Hi Leikos. I have never made JAOM and so don't know whether 5 gallons will behave the same way 1 gallon might in matters of buoyancy and fruit - but I question the idea that cool weather aids degassing. Take two cans of coke and open them. Put one in the fridge and keep the other on your table. The next day pour each into a separate glass. My money is on the one that had been in the fridge is more likely to have more effervescence than the one you had at room temperature. Moreover, when I degas wines I aim to pull the CO2 from the wines at higher temperatures (closer to 70 F than the temperatures at which I allow the same wines to age (closer to 60 F).

I believe the term is 'cold crashing', but I don't have the in-depth details on why it would/wouldn't work with regard to dropping the fruit. Even if it did though, I don't have a space large enough to cool a 5 gallon carboy as we get into summer..

mannye
05-28-2014, 08:34 PM
Cold crashing is used to clear wine/mead of yeast. It has nothing to do with Co2. As a matter of fact, cold will help keep the gas in solution. Warming it up is what causes Co2 to escape. Cold makes the yeast fall to the bottom. Cold crashing is also done to stop fermentation before the yeast is all done resulting in a sweeter final product. (obviously along with the proper chemical additions upon racking off the lees.)

So..to your JAOM. I made a gallon and it took about 8 to 10 weeks to start doing the lava lamp thing where the fruit are up one moment and then a few hours later down, then back up and so on. You're at about 10 weeks and so are pretty much right on schedule taking the larger volume into account (not that that should make a difference...but I bet it does) I bet if it's nice and clear that once you get a warmer day the fruit will get on the move. My advice is to forget about it for two more weeks. I also recommend getting a thief in there right now and giving it a taste.

Liekos
05-29-2014, 04:00 PM
Cold crashing is used to clear wine/mead of yeast. It has nothing to do with Co2. As a matter of fact, cold will help keep the gas in solution. Warming it up is what causes Co2 to escape. Cold makes the yeast fall to the bottom. Cold crashing is also done to stop fermentation before the yeast is all done resulting in a sweeter final product. (obviously along with the proper chemical additions upon racking off the lees.)

So..to your JAOM. I made a gallon and it took about 8 to 10 weeks to start doing the lava lamp thing where the fruit are up one moment and then a few hours later down, then back up and so on. You're at about 10 weeks and so are pretty much right on schedule taking the larger volume into account (not that that should make a difference...but I bet it does) I bet if it's nice and clear that once you get a warmer day the fruit will get on the move. My advice is to forget about it for two more weeks. I also recommend getting a thief in there right now and giving it a taste.

That is indeed what comes up when I search for cold-crashing, but I swear I've seen threads that mention cold weather making the fruit drop..

In any case, I've had the carboy wrapped with a dark towel and left it alone almost completely except for a quick look here and there. Unwrapping it and examining things closely last night, it looks like there are still tiny bubbles rising in the mead - so it looks as though the yeast just isn't finished devouring the sugar yet.

There are very small bubbles in the airlock but no discernible active bubbling, so I [mistakenly] took that as the gas trapped by the fruit escaping and not active fermentation. It seems like maybe the root cause is that things just aren't done yet..

Is there any amount of time that is "too long" to leave it sitting on the bread yeast?

mannye
05-29-2014, 04:24 PM
Not that I know of. It should be done soon. As a rule I don't leave any mead beer or wine on the lees after primary is done. The only reason for that would be sur lie. But I haven't done that yet.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

Honeyhog
05-29-2014, 08:55 PM
I did it with my JOAM. The fruit was lava lamping, down one day, up the next so I put it outside when it still got good and cold at night and the fruit dropped like a stone and I bottled it pronto. I read it as well that cold crashing it will make the fruit drop if it's taking particularly long.

mannye
05-30-2014, 09:50 AM
Cold crashing will make most everything fall out of suspension including the fruit but if they haven't fallen at regular temps you might be fooling yourself into a false sense of security and then as soon as it warms up fermentation will start back up. Then BOOM! bottle bombs.

Of course, if you taste it and it's awesome, then all bets are off. :) Camden tablets and secondary then bottles and down the hatch!


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

Get_Wiggly
05-30-2014, 12:30 PM
if the fruit literally has a bubble stuck in it, its never going to drop.

The dropping of the fruit is just an indication of buoyancy - which is half dictated by the density of the JAOM, and the other by the fruit. If your fruit has a pocket that can easily collect gas and not let it go, it may never drop.

I'd rack.

antonioh
05-30-2014, 12:41 PM
It seems that some spices that we add to JOAM can make it temperamental.

I usually make simultaneously three batches, same temperature, same IG, orange and grapes, only changing spices. I have huge variation in dropings ;D, and clearing.

mannye
06-01-2014, 10:51 AM
Everything is moot until you steal a sample and taste. That's really the only criteria.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G