Boiling yeast nutrient??

Airnwater · Jul 20, 2014

Have a JOAM aging and have a traditional fermentin'... So I'm going for a ginger metheglin Sunday but have a question for the group. The recipe I used for the trad. wanted me to boil the nutrient for several minutes.

Haven't seen this in any other recipe. Is it just assumed that we noobs know this or is it not necessary??

Great site!

kuri · Jul 20, 2014

I've always boiled my nutrient, but have never been sure whether it's necessary. I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to sanitation, until and unless I find that there's no need to. Such as when it comes to honey -- heat appears to be completely unnecessary, and I've revised my practices accordingly. I'll be interested to hear what other people do with their nutrient additions.

fatbloke · Jul 20, 2014

One word......... Overkill !

Pretty much nothing survives primary fermentation. The stage at which nutrient/energiser/whatever is added, is mostly before the 1/3rd sugar break, so as it's dissolved in the liquid it's subjected to most of the primary action.

Ergo, it's not necessary.

When you see stuff like that, it's either something that isn't needed, or over kill, or possibly a "method specific" thing i.e. with a beer making technique, I understand that is sometimes done in some recipes/methods, but that is more about keeping the wort as sterile as absolutely possible because beers have a lot more stuff left over after the making that can "go off" and they don't routinely have high enough alcohol levels to offer that protection.

You'd note here and at most wine making places, it's not done........

Stasis · Jul 20, 2014

fatbloke said:
Pretty much nothing survives primary fermentation.

Well actually I would rephrase that. Of course infections are possible, especially if you have a yeast which isn't too competitive (kill factor?). However, you'd have to do something obviously worse than adding non-boiled energizer. The energizer is probably dry, making it very difficult for anything to grow there. Also, the amount of energizer added is so small that the amount introduced is rather insignificant. Probably the vast majority of organisms won't survive primary fermentation as they aren't well adapted for the environment (as Fb said).
Ok, I made that a bit over complicated. The point is, I don't want new members to think they are immune to stuff going wrong because of unsanitary practices

This post reminded me of a blog I read by Ken Schramm. It talks about the organisms found in a finished wine and what effects these might have and where they come from. Take it as extra reading as the point I wished to make has already been made

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/entry.php/43-Optimizing-Honey-Fermentation-Part-3

fatbloke · Jul 20, 2014

Always useful to focus on "just enough". It isn't really necessary to go over the top. He'll we could easily suggest autoclaving all the ingredients, but in the same way, that'd be excessive.

If you don't need to do anything specific to the main ingredient because of its natural character, then you likely don't need to be OTT with the others.

Pragmatism is good enough.........

Chevette Girl · Jul 20, 2014

I've never boiled mine, I assume they come from the manufacturer about as clean as they're going to get. Then again, I come from a background of fruit wines, when using fresh fruit in my ferments I assume it can never be 100% clean/sanitized and just assume the fermentation will kill anything I don't want... and that's worked pretty well so far.

I don't think heat will hurt DAP (nutrients), but I might recommend against boiling energizer, some of the vitamins in it might well be heat-sensitive.

I know boiling pectinase is a great way to have not bothered at all, since it will denature the enzyme.

PapaScout · Jul 20, 2014

Some people will use bread yeast as a nutrient for other yeast, but the bread yeast needs to be boiled/killed first. Once cooled it can be used in a starter with the actual yeast you want to use for fermentation. Could this be what the OP is referring to?

Chevette Girl · Jul 20, 2014

Possibly, and a good thought, but a re-read of the first post where "yeast nutrients" is specifically mentioned confirms to me my original thought: overzealous sanitation.

Airnwater · Jul 20, 2014

Thanks for the replies! I thought it might be over zealous sanitation. Heading to the Kitchen and glad to have one less step!!

mannye · Jul 20, 2014

Airnwater said:
Thanks for the replies! I thought it might be over zealous sanitation. Heading to the Kitchen and glad to have one less step!!

unless the "nutrient" you mention is bread yeast. In which case... boil it.

Medsen Fey · Jul 21, 2014

Boiling nutrients will destroy some of the key vitamins (Thiamine is one example if memory serves). It is not a good practice.

mannye · Jul 21, 2014

Medsen Fey said:
Boiling nutrients will destroy some if the key vitamins (Thiamine is one example if memory serves). It is not a good practice.

Hey! You're back! Good to see you!

Maeloch · Jul 22, 2014

When I've thrown boiling water on some DAP before, it's given off quite an ammonia stench. I'm not sure what's going on there - it's liberating ammonia for some reason - but I've avoided it since.

fatbloke · Jul 22, 2014

Maeloch said:
When I've thrown boiling water on some DAP before, it's given off quite an ammonia stench. I'm not sure what's going on there - it's liberating ammonia for some reason - but I've avoided it since.

DAP stands for "di-ammonium phosphate", so the ammoniacal stink shouldn't be a surprise

Maeloch · Jul 23, 2014

fatbloke said:
DAP stands for "di-ammonium phosphate", so the ammoniacal stink shouldn't be a surprise

Ah yes! I knew that, but I was worried it was decomposing into actual ammonia with the heat or something. Gah I remember almost zero of my a-level chemistry. But I thought an ammonia salt itself shouldn't smell?

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Boiling yeast nutrient??

Airnwater

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kuri

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

Stasis

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good egg/snappy dresser.....

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good egg/snappy dresser.....

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