all over again Bread Yeast and Methanol Question

Noob · Jul 25, 2014

Hey guys,

well as my ID says im noob on this so don't laugh it off or do ;D

i googled and got lots of info got me dizzy whats right or wrong in the end.

so here is the questions

in country i leave having any alcoholic beverage is forbidden so buying wine or whatever in normal store is out of question.
as it goes for wine yeast or any yeast except bread yeast. the only one i manage to buy is saf-levure i think its french or something.

can i still make wine or beer with this one?
i checked few chemical info about yeast make methanol over pectin "fibers/woody things like seeds bla bla" so if i lower them and avoid high temperature over distill its safe to drink is that right?

i heard water temperature should be about 40c for good fermentation. so i boiled some what i think it was higher than that it still fermenting like crazy enough to pump the big balloon

since it was high temperature is it safe or does this also make methanol and i have to avoid this batch?

sorry about noobs question types thou many ppls dies and goes blind in my country i just dont like become one of those

thanks for reading and i hope get real answers

cheers

Honeyhog · Jul 25, 2014

You need to make a JOAM. It means Joe's Ancient Orange Mead. The recipe uses bread yeast and requires all things you can get at a local market. Follow the recipe in this thread exactly and it will get you something pleasantly drinkable http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showth...lproof-Ancient-Orange-Clove-and-Cinnamon-Mead. For an airlock over your jug you can use a balloon with a few pinpricks in it. Remember to use a US gallon and not an Imperial(UK)gallon. Be careful.

joemirando · Jul 25, 2014

Noob,

Bread yeast will consume sugars and produce ethanol (and a small amount of other alcohols like methanol) and carbon dioxide.
There are a couple of differences between bread yeast and wine yeasts, but they work the same way. Bread yeast does not settle out as well as most wine yeasts, it has a lower alcohol tolerance, and it can leave more of a 'yeasty' taste than wine yeasts. Nonetheless, it can be used to make a very enjoyable alcoholic drink.

I think a large part of what you're talking about is distilling to make "hard liquor". This is illegal in most places, not just where you are, and for very good reasons. Heat and a combustible substance like ethanol are a bad combination, and using improper equipment can make the stuff deadly.

Methanol (wood alcohol) is poisonous, but it would take larger quantities than you will likely be able to produce by fermentation to kill you.

Make a nice honey wine, or a beer or ale. Distilled spirits take some extra equipment and expertise. Mead can be made with 2 or 3 simple ingredients and nothing more than a gallon jug, a toy balloon and some time.

If you have access to honey, oranges, raisins, bread yeast, cinnamon, cloves and water, you can make a very nice orange mead. It is a beginner's mead, but it is amazingly good for the ingredients and equipment required.

Again:
Mead/wine/beer = good
distilled spirits = bad
;D

This forum is the best place in the world to ask noob questions. The only dumb question is the one that is never asked.

Welcome aboard!
Joe

Honeyhog · Jul 25, 2014

The must temperature for fermenting wines should be lower than 40C more like 18-30C, depending on the tolerance of the yeast. At higher temperatures yeast can produce what are called fusels, although not deadly they make the alcohol in you drink very "hot" tasting, unpleasant to drink and takes a long time to age out. If it is quite hot tasting when it's done if you can find some oak and make shavings, toast them a bit and add them to your must for a few weeks it will help.

Noob · Jul 25, 2014

wow that was fast tnx

, okis i gonna try keep you posted how did it go

fatbloke · Jul 26, 2014

It's pretty much as both Joe and HH say.

All ferments will make a tiny amount of methanol, but not enough to become a problem (put any alcoholic drinks through a mass spectrometer, and you'd find it).

If you can get honey, oranges, raisins and the spices (any bread yeast should do, fleischmanns is a US rand - I can't get it here either and my local stuff works fine), then you can make it.

Irrespective of whether the alcohol ban is cultural or taxation based, if you're fermenting sugar, you will make ethanol. Just that all the death and blindness info, while theoretically possible, are mostly not corrected, because of your government not wanting you to make stuff for one or both the above mentioned reasons.......

The temperature issue mentioned above ? It's best to try and keep it to about the 18 to 20C sort of area as the product is better tasting.......

Chevette Girl · Jul 26, 2014

Be careful if what you're doing is illegal... but you're extremely unlikely to die or go blind from homemade wine or mead so long as you don't try distilling it, the small amounts of things other than ethanol in wine and mead don't become a problem unless you distill it.

Happy meadmaking, Joe's Ancient Orange is a great recipe for when you can't get proper wine stuff and if you check the forum for Joe's Ancient Orange variations, you'll find a bunch of other things we've tried to do with that recipe, many of which work just fine.

Noob · Jul 26, 2014

thanks guys for all replies and information i'm happy to join in

well i made that recipe today i keep you posted how it turn out in future,
as matter of that high temperature last time i tried its been 10 days and it still making bubble and smell like mass CO2 even is any alcohol there CO2 masking the smell. i gonna keep checking it.

for distill i dont like distill im not heavy drinker anyway, i can't tolerate high alcohol content

this mead sounds yummy one i hope it turn out well.

just adding to my questions.

how am i suppose to stop fermenting @ some point i dotn like dry drink abit sweetness would be nice, i know freezing wont stop yeast and i still afraid of even word distill.
so how to keep bit sweetness on mead or wine.

coz as far as i know as long 1 bit of sugar in it yeast keep turn it to alcohol and make it dry

thanks for all support and quick answers ^_^

Chevette Girl · Jul 26, 2014

If you used bread yeast and 3.5 lb of honey for a gallon of Joe's Ancient Orange mead, it shouldn't finish dry. Bread yeast only has an alcohol tolerance of around 12% and there's enough sugar in that recipe to go up to 16% or more, so your yeast should give up long before they run out of sugar so you shouldn't have to stop it, it will stop on its own in maybe 3-5 weeks or so and will leave some sweetness. Make sure you're still using your baloon airlock during this point because as the fermentation continues, it will keep producing CO2 and keeping it closed up is a bad idea as it will build up pressure and could leak or cause the container to explode if left too long.

As for the ferment you started already, well, fermentations take as long as they take, some are complete and stop fizzing in less than a week, some take more than a month to complete. Swirl it around once a day to help keep the yeast suspended so they can do their job.

If you used the wine yeast you found and it does take the mead dry, then you can just add small bits of honey to sweeten it up. We call this step-feeding, every time it goes too dry, sweeten it up but not too much, then let the yeast do their thing, then check it again in a week, and if it's gone dry again, add a bit more honey until you like the level of sweetness. You can keep doing this until the yeast finally gives up, it's rare for even most wine yeasts to go above 18-19% alcohol before they give up.

Noob · Jul 26, 2014

thanks for update info

well no wine yeast available in my country, so i guess sweeten by method you mentioned should be easy.
for that batch i keep watch see when it will finishes thanks

joemirando · Jul 26, 2014

What ChevetteGirl said.

Basically, if you use 3.5 lb (1.587 kg) honey for a 1 gallon (3.78 liter), and ferment it with bread yeast, the yeast will die due to alcohol poisoning before all the sugar is gone, leaving you with a drink of between 10% and 12% alcohol and still enough sugar to make it sweet.

Just remember the three major rules of mead making:

[*=1]Never throw mead away
[*=1]Patience is an ingredient added at every step
[*=1]Never throw mead away

There you have it! <grin>

Joe

Noob · Jul 27, 2014

good to know thanks

well i should work on my patience too hahaha
i usually don't trow away anything i will find another way to use it if it fails. thou i hope i don't

quick question i always see ppl sya put in dark cellar or storage room or dark room, i have normal room don't have these dark places and as far as i can see yeast doing what they suppose to do.

so darkness provide what exactly faster better work or its just people assumption it should be in dark place?

fatbloke · Jul 27, 2014

Neither. Light can damage the product with bleaching effect. It's not a quick process but hot places are often bright/light.

When fruit has been used in the brew, it can have a bigger effect. It's why wines etc are usually bottled in green or brown glass. Beer is similar, but it's the hops in beer that degrade, affecting the flavour.

The cool temperature thing, is that the aging process is better at cooler temps so normally 8 to 12C is thought optimum......

Noob · Jul 27, 2014

oh yeah you are right sun always ruin the smell of fruits and actually any flavor so that's why.
hmm i dont have dark room i guess have to figure out how block direct light before i ruin my new joam batch.

thanks alot

fatbloke · Jul 27, 2014

Noob said:
oh yeah you are right sun always ruin the smell of fruits and actually any flavor so that's why.
hmm i dont have dark room i guess have to figure out how block direct light before i ruin my new joam batch.

thanks alot

Aluminium cooking foil wrapped round the fermenter works well for darkness.....

Noob · Jul 27, 2014

yeah but its metal base im not sure it over heat under sun or not, if i didnt find better solution i guess do this for time being

Chevette Girl · Jul 27, 2014

Shiny side out to reflect? It worked with our fish tank that was too close to the fireplace...

I used to have my brewing shelf in the kitchen window so I just blocked the half of the window that shone on the shelf with a tablecloth. Put a t-shirt on the carboy, wrap a blanket around it, make a tablecloth tent around it, put a piece of cardboard up against it or a box around it... all kinds of things you can do to block light.

Noob · Jul 27, 2014

cool idear white t-shirt could reflect back some of light and not over heat it 2 thanks chevette

fatbloke · Jul 27, 2014

Noob said:
yeah but its metal base im not sure it over heat under sun or not, if i didnt find better solution i guess do this for time being

As CG suggests. In any case, it's not a good idea to keep anything like that in direct sun. Shaded (and preferably cool) area is considerably better......

If you can do the white t-shirt idea, and then put the whole thing in a pan with water, the water will spread up the cloth "wicking" and any breeze etc, will then help remove any excess warmth/heat some - this is often called a "swamp cooler"....

joemirando · Jul 27, 2014

Noob said:
yeah but its metal base im not sure it over heat under sun or not, if i didnt find better solution i guess do this for time being

Complete darkness is not necessary. If you keep it out of direct sunlight, you should be okay. Find a corner somewhere that is in shadow or at least out of direct sunlight.

As either Fatbloke or Chevette Girl has said, if temperature is an issue, you can cover the jug/carboy with a towel or tee shirt and put it in a tub with water, the water will saturate the cloth and evaporate, taking some heat with it, creating a simple heat exchanger and cooling your mead by a few degrees.

Good luck,
Joe

all over again Bread Yeast and Methanol Question

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