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Lberry6595
10-08-2014, 08:09 AM
So I've been aging my smoke and chocolate bochet in its one gallon jugs and refilling the air locks regularly.
And then I noticed that I was refilling them at least once a week. I thought this was weird, but it didn't bother me too much because I was using isopropyl alcohol as the airlock fluid and I figured it was just evaporating quicker than water would have.
However, last time I went to refill them, the airlock moved, but it didn't seem to be pushing air out, it seemed to be pulling the isopropyl into my mead!
Given that isopropyl is poisonous, I almost threw the whole two gallons down the drain. But then I remembered Gotmead and I figured I'd ask the experts before I threw away two gallons of hard work.
So, can anyone help me? Should I throw it away? Keep it?

brentG
10-08-2014, 12:27 PM
Wood and Ethyl alcohol are deadly, for sure. They're the ones that make people go blind when they drink them (even in small amounts) or just flat-out kill.
Isopropyl, not so much. People drink it to get drunk all the time. It's not a good idea, because it is really easy to overdose on, but my wife is a substance abuse councilor and sees this constantly.
As long as you didn't put a lot in (like, more than 8 fluid ounces), and it tastes ok, I wouldn't worry.
I'm no mead pro -- by any means -- but if it were my batch, I'd still drink it.
Just my .02

drako824
10-08-2014, 04:20 PM
Wood and Ethyl alcohol are deadly, for sure. They're the ones that make people go blind when they drink them (even in small amounts) or just flat-out kill.

I'm pretty sure ethyl alcohol and ethanol are the same thing.

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brentG
10-08-2014, 06:14 PM
yeah. that happens with too much ethyl alcohol.
Methyl.

RachmaelBenApplebaum
10-08-2014, 07:53 PM
Don't use isopropyl alc for air locks. Cheap vodka, water with sanitizer, just plain old water...

Maeloch
10-09-2014, 05:26 AM
Personally, if it was me, I'd keep it. Isopropyl alcohol is more toxic than regular alcohol, but not nasty like methanol (i.e. it will not make you go blind). It must only be a few mililitres in a whole gallon that got in - people do abuse that stuff and drink it neat.

mannye
10-09-2014, 08:02 AM
Wow. I never knew isopropyl was drinkable. You have to be pretty desperate to choke that shit down. But I guess if you are chugging rubbing alcohol you've got at least three other problems more serious than alcolholism, right?

Regardless since it's such a tiny amount don't worry about it. Your mead should be fine.


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now.

brentG
10-09-2014, 10:03 AM
People will drink the oddest things: hand sanitizer, vanilla extract, mouthwash... I once saw a man leaning against an A&W in Canada spray an entire can of Aquanet hairspray into a cup and drink it. I was young; that one stuck.

Honeyhog
10-09-2014, 09:22 PM
I saw a guy open a can of hairspray with a beer opener and tipped it up just like a beer, blech. I was 14 that one stuck with me as well.

skunkboy
10-09-2014, 10:28 PM
Yeah, in the future you might want to stick with cheap vodka in the airlock...

15 grams is toxic to 70 kilo human... from wikipedia, this other source quotes 5g/kg of person?
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-524548.html

produces acetone as it is metabolised, and that is slow to leave the body... bleagh...

Maeloch
10-10-2014, 06:48 AM
I'm guessing it's already in wine and mead in trace concentrations - what those are tho?....

I googled it and got this Yahoo! answers classic:

"Can you pour rubbing alcohol in grape juice and make wine?"

"Well, if you just drank rubbing alcohol and grape juice you would invariably die, but if you added salt into the mixture, then the salt would counteract the toxins in the rubbing alcohol, giving you a fine wine that could be sold at any high-end restaurant."

Lberry6595
10-10-2014, 07:58 AM
So basically what I'm getting is that since its very small amounts, it should still be fine (which is what I thought would be the case when I stopped freaking out), but in the future using something else would be a better idea.

Seth8530
10-10-2014, 08:59 AM
According to the MSDS for 99% isopropyl

Toxicological Data on Ingredients: Isopropyl alcohol: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 5045 mg/kg [Rat]. 3600 mg/kg [Mouse]. 6410
mg/kg [Rabbit]. DERMAL (LD50): Acute: 12800 mg/kg [Rabbit].

you have a 50% chance of not being alive the next day if you eat 3.6 grams per kg of your body weight. So, if you way say 60 kg, 218 grams of this stuff has a 50/50 chance of killing you. 218 grams of iso has a volume of 277 ml or 9.3 ozs. However, here is the question do you even want to play with getting near that much? What are the long term concequences? If 9.3 ozs has a 50 percent chance of killing you, do you think that half an oz or less is good for your health?

Maeloch
10-10-2014, 10:35 AM
According to the MSDS for 99% isopropyl

Toxicological Data on Ingredients: Isopropyl alcohol: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 5045 mg/kg [Rat]. 3600 mg/kg [Mouse]. 6410
mg/kg [Rabbit]. DERMAL (LD50): Acute: 12800 mg/kg [Rabbit].

you have a 50% chance of not being alive the next day if you eat 3.6 grams per kg of your body weight. So, if you way say 60 kg, 218 grams of this stuff has a 50/50 chance of killing you. 218 grams of iso has a volume of 277 ml or 9.3 ozs. However, here is the question do you even want to play with getting near that much? What are the long term concequences? If 9.3 ozs has a 50 percent chance of killing you, do you think that half an oz or less is good for your health?

MSDS's can be a little scarymongry. The advice for getting salt in your eye is: "Rinse immediately with plenty of water, also under the eyelids, for at least 15 minutes. Obtain medical attention."

Put it in perspective - what is the LD50 for ethanol? I google it as about 7g per kilo for a rat. The LD50 for isopropyl alcohol in a rat is 5g per kilo.

Not that I'm saying drinking isopropanol a great idea...

mannye
10-10-2014, 11:26 AM
Not that I'm saying drinking isopropanol a great idea...

Sure. I bet you work for the wine lobby. Everyone knows that if you add some grape juice and a pinch of salt to it you can make fine wine. In fact everyone knows that's how they make Petrus and Chateau D'Yquem.


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Maeloch
10-10-2014, 11:41 AM
Sure. I bet you work for the wine lobby. Everyone knows that if you add some grape juice and a pinch of salt to it you can make fine wine.

It would probably be better than many of my meads! :D

Lberry6595
10-11-2014, 09:53 PM
Also, I was working with 70% isopropyl, not 99%, so that changes things significantly. Also, that 70% was further diluted by the water already in the airlock.
Not only that, but those numbers are for rodents, and you will notice that the large the rodent, the larger the toxic concentrations were. No one is arguing that isopropyl alcohol is safe, but using numbers from non-human animals as though they apply directly to humans just isn't accurate.
As for long term effects, there aren't a whole lot. Alcohols are water soluble, so they don't stay in your system long term, like fat soluble chemicals do. They just get flushed out of your system.
I think I'm gonna run with it for now. Thanks for all the advice everyone.