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McJeff
01-28-2015, 03:49 PM
Anyone buy honey off eBay? Been wanting to buy a few pounds of orange blossom or buckwheat honey and eBay has some really good prices with free shipping. I know you kinda get what you pay for but has anyone had good results?

WVMJack
01-28-2015, 07:23 PM
Are they shipping it directly from the Orient, pretty good deal with free shipping. WVMJ

McJeff
01-28-2015, 08:29 PM
I sense some sarcasm I think ;)

Squatchy
01-28-2015, 10:58 PM
Hi

I have purchased clover from "beelover" and it was a great buy. I bought some dessert honey from "arron-treasure-street" that was just a run of the mill wildflower. I also bought some orange blossom from "liuahll" I have only had 1 other gallon of "orange" so I'm not too experienced but I wasn't sure if it was orange blossom or not. So take that for what ever it is. The clover was very good and you can't beat the price.

Medsen Fey
01-28-2015, 11:47 PM
You can get some good prices and great quality OB from these folks
http://www.walkerfarmshoney.com/products.htm#bear

Shipping ain't free, but the prices are decent.

Shelley
01-29-2015, 07:19 AM
If you live in or near blueberry country, you might see if you can get in touch with beekeepers that pollinate the blueberries. Sometimes, these folks will be overwintering their bees in Florida and come back with OB honey. I've got a beekeeper near Ithaca who overwinters in Florida, so we end up with a local source of OB honey.

McJeff
01-29-2015, 10:00 AM
You can get some good prices and great quality OB from these folks
http://www.walkerfarmshoney.com/products.htm#bear

Shipping ain't free, but the prices are decent.

decent prices ty! as you said s/h is the shitty part

McJeff
01-29-2015, 10:01 AM
If you live in or near blueberry country, you might see if you can get in touch with beekeepers that pollinate the blueberries. Sometimes, these folks will be overwintering their bees in Florida and come back with OB honey. I've got a beekeeper near Ithaca who overwinters in Florida, so we end up with a local source of OB honey.

nice thought! i know one guy that might ill have to ask. Im taking a beginner beekeeping class next month, so excited!

EJM3
01-29-2015, 03:22 PM
Congrats on the class!

JDWebb
01-29-2015, 06:08 PM
I just got 15 pounds (3 - 5 pound jugs) of wildflower at Smart And Final where I live for $13.99 a jug. Thats $2.79 a pound! Its raw, unprocessed but filtered, which means they heat it up just enough to pump it. I'm going back today to see if they have more, I cleaned the out the other day (yeah, the 3 jugs...LOL).

McJeff
01-29-2015, 06:55 PM
Tell them you want to buy bulk!

JDWebb
01-29-2015, 08:38 PM
I don't think they sell it that way, that was the sale price. The Sue Bee orange blossom 1 pound jugs next to it was $7! I shop all over for honey, even my honey farm is getting wise, I used to get 3 pound containers for $10, now its $15-$17. I shop honey by the price per pound. The funny thing is, I had an argument with one of the workers at the honey farm, they sell organic honey at a much higher price. I asked him why, he said because the honey comes from organic plants. I said thats nice, but why is it more expensive? His reply was because its organic. I laughed, I asked him what does that have to do with the bees? You transport them all over the place and I know according to the owner, it doesn't cost any more to take them from one field to the next regardless if its organic or not. I said you people didn't do anything but collect the honey from the hive and put it right into the container, unfiltered, from the honeycomb to the container, then it goes on the shelf, where's the extra cost? Where's the extra labor? Be careful when you shop because the word "organic" can sometimes mean you're really paying too much. It's a buzz word that's a revenue generator in most cases. I used to farm and ranch so all you farmers out there, don't try and convince me of the cost of raising organic tomatoes is any higher than raising non-organic ones...LOL..And besides, every tomato out there is a GMO tomato, so it doesn't really matter if its organic or not...LOL


...eh.....

fatbloke
01-31-2015, 05:10 AM
No, the word organic, when applied to honey, is a total lie. You'd have to have nothing but organic plants for about what ? two or three miles in every direction ?

The seller might be trying to be smart, but they'd likely get prosecuted here as there's no way of guaranteeing organic........

Doesn't matter how good the bee keeper is, they can't tell the bee's which flowers to gather from.......

{edit}to use the organic word as a selling point (justification for their extortionate prices), the product must be certified as organic - ain't gonna happen with honey any time soon.........

JDWebb
01-31-2015, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I get the "2 miles in every direction" part, but I argue the organic thing all the time with people, especially at farmers markets. Ask them where their irrigation water comes from, because if it comes down the ditch/canal like may places I knew in Colorado, you may not be using pesticides, but your neighbor is, and the run off from his fields comes down the ditch to your place.

We had a small place, 50 acres, just north of Ft. Collins, just outside the city limits. Our water was delivered via canal and ditch. It was controlled by a gate, and we flood irrigated. It was mostly for the grass, we seeded every other year and all our beef, chickens, pigs were all raised on grass, or pasture. Pigs were moved around as were the chickens on part of it, and we had usually 3 or 4 steers for meat. But there was no guarantee that the water was "pesticide free".

EJM3
02-01-2015, 08:04 PM
When I see NON-GMO plastered to the side of chicken, beef and pork, then see it all over other products that have nothing to do with GMOs, I really distrust it. Does that mean that for the last 40 or more years that I have been alive that every bit of animal flesh I was eating was from a GMO pig, steer, chicken, etc?? REALLY?? Then why are people not un an uproar about how they were tricked all these decades that the meat they were eating is a laboratory experiment, and so were they??

Part reality part sarcasm there...

JDWebb
02-01-2015, 10:41 PM
It also depends on if the animals were eating GMO foods such as grains etc. City folk and the farmers market yuppies think organic is something new, it's not. We started farming and ranching in 1973, and we raised all of our produce/meat & poultry "organic" other than our irrigation water. There was no guarantee that the water didn't contain pesticides in the runoff. But, I'm sure it would have been an almost undetectable amount by the time it got to the dinner table. We used our own non-toxic bug spray we made at home using dishwater, bugs, herbs and vinegar. And the labor working in the garden daily was no more laborious than mixing up chemicals and walking the rows and spraying to keep the weeds down. Or beef was grass fed, oat and grass hay in the winter, sweet feed when they got within a 100 pounds of butcher weight (around 800-900 pounds) for a nice layer of backfat. Same with the pigs, they got dairy products from local dairies we would drive around and pick up, slop from our own garbage, and they grazed. Same with poultry other than oyster shells for egg production. Everything but tomatoes and corn. Tomatoes and corn were genetically engineered so long ago I don't think there are any native seeds left.

But I'll tell you one thing, I have never seen pound and a half-sized chicken breasts before...ever. I'd like to see the 40 pound chicken it must have come off of.

JDWebb
02-01-2015, 10:46 PM
Also, the meat you speak of, take a trip to a feedlot some day. You'll probably never see a bale of hay anywhere. What you will see is truckloads of chemically treated feed like cottonseed hulls and newspaper shreddings that are soaked and penetrated with nutrients and chems to take a calf from newborn to butcher weight in months instead of the usual 16-18 months. Same with chicken. Hens are at butcher weight in 30 days or less, and that is disgusting.

Shelley
02-01-2015, 10:48 PM
With regards to my local beekeepers, "organic" does have meaning. If beekeepers here want to create an "organic" product, what they mean is: honey from a chemical-free hive.

There are various treatments that we can use to combat varroa mites, nosema, Foulbrood disease, to name a few. Those treatments involve doing something to the inside of the hive. Some of these treatments may not qualify under an organic label (whichever definition of organic you utilize).

Some of the chemicals from these treatments can permeate into the honey if used improperly, for example antibiotics. Many of the non-organic treatments are really effective in keeping the beehives alive. An organic approach can mean being willing to lose a higher percentage of your bees over the course of a year, which subsequently means a higher cost of doing business.

When I market my honey, if I can I use the language "from treatment-free hives" rather than "organic". As many have noted, you can't tell where the bees are going, so calling your honey organic directly is disingenuous.

JDWebb
02-01-2015, 11:38 PM
I'm sure it is more healthy, anything is more healthy chemical-free. But I still argue the fact that unless your hives are in an area of probably 100 square miles that is pesticide-free and never move, there's no such thing as organic honey. The word "organic" is a revenue generator, just like "new and improved" was years ago. Products that have "30% more"...yeah, look at the price per pound, per ounce, etc., you're paying for it. Companies aren't going to give it away, they're in business to make money, not lose it. I buy tomatoes at my Ralph's store and refuse to buy them at the farmers market simply because they're both the same tomato, produced from the same GMO seed. Regardless of pesticides that can be washed off, the unhealthy part is inside.

Anyway, I just have a "thing" when people start talking organic like it was some new kind of food and are willing to pay far too much. Just watch what you buy, and who you buy it from. Some of these so called organic farms, are in between the big ones that use chemicals. Even the overspray from aerial treatments on surrounding crops impact the organic farmer.

Tenbears
02-03-2015, 10:00 AM
No, the word organic, when applied to honey, is a total lie. You'd have to have nothing but organic plants for about what ? two or three miles in every direction ?

The seller might be trying to be smart, but they'd likely get prosecuted here as there's no way of guaranteeing organic........

Doesn't matter how good the bee keeper is, they can't tell the bee's which flowers to gather from.......

{edit}to use the organic word as a selling point (justification for their extortionate prices), the product must be certified as organic - ain't gonna happen with honey any time soon.........



Really? My families farm Consists of 151 sections, (a section is 1 square mile, 670 acres.) Standing in the middle of this land you are at the closest point to any border greater than 3 miles. Providing We use no chemicals, and I place my hives in the geographical center of our property. I could not produce 100% pure organic honey? What about those who have hives within the national forest where there is no agriculture, only tens of millions of acres of pristine natural vegetation?

JDWebb
02-03-2015, 12:15 PM
If you can certify that the bees don't travel beyond the limits of your property, then maybe you could call your honey "organic". But, if your bees have access to county roads and highways that are maintained with the use of chemicals for weed control as are most roads in just about every town these days, even rural areas, then no, I wouldn't call your honey organic. Your 151 sections are most likely divided up by county roads, access roads possibly major paved roads, I don't know. And regarding placing hives in a forest, unless you travel to a completely uninhabited area of the forest (if you can deliver your hives there, you're not quite "out of the woods"...) even forests are not free from chemical use to control vegetation. Most streams and rivers in this country are contaminated now, and I guarantee you, if you can drive your hive into the middle of the forest, others will have access also, and someone has to maintain the road to get there.

There are very few places that are chemical free in America, even forests. You don't necessarily have to use chemicals, even rainwater contains toxic chemicals depending on where you live. The bottom line is, people sometimes toss the word organic around because they discovered they can charge more for their product and get away with it. And organic is so new to legislators that they don't even know how to legislate it. California is the worst, they have basically adopted livestock regulations to regulate organic products! Organic means 100% chemical-free, uncontaminated by water runoff, exposure from neighboring plant health treatments, and the use of non GMO seeds. And unless you're raising a crop of flowering plants on those 151 sections where the bees don't have to go far to collect pollen, then I probably wouldn't consider your honey organic.

EJM3
02-03-2015, 08:06 PM
This is gonna sound like me being an A**, but I wana get what would constitute ORGANIC in your eyes.

By those definitions of ORGANIC there are practically zero products, let alone honey, that are on or off the market anywhere in the world, if any. There will always be contamination in this modern world we live in, either purposeful or inadvertent. No matter where on the planet you live in the era of global pollution.

It is a matter of degrees, and what degree is acceptable to me is not the same as my friend, partner (who was an ORGANIC pear orchardist), neighbor, farmer, food producer, etc.

It seems that the only way for your standards to produce a true and pure organic ANYTHING is to produce it in a sterile lab environment with EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE controlled for. Makes it hard for nature to get passed the locked doors and armed security guards with their GMO dogs at the lab.


So here are a few questions:

First of all which is the better place to have your hives??
Monsanto?? Hey THEY will argue it's the best!
My neighbors yard where I watch him go through 4 gallons of roundup, spraying miracle-gro, and a few dozens of other chemicals 4 or more times a year??
151 miles with a 3 mile buffer zone that might have a road or two around it?? (Presumably owned and maintained by the people that own the property and hives)

What water is better??
Obviously the water from the sky is not fit for consumption anymore...
Sea water is nasty with all that rancid rain you don't seem to like...
Bottled water is in contact with industrial plastics, metals and chemicals at all steps of the process...

Then there is the plant, fertilizer, sun, air and so many more variables than I could even to begin thinking about. Any ONE of which makes the product ineligible as ORGANIC by your standards.

JDWebb
02-03-2015, 08:13 PM
We're all gonna die.

And it won't be from broken legs or chainsaw accidents.

Gonna be talking about it on my show tonight, call in 317-489-9388, join Skype at JD Webb...we're live at 7pm pst, get the radio link from either here (http://www.jamesdwebb.com) or here (http://boozetalk.listen2myradio.com/)

Medsen Fey
02-03-2015, 10:27 PM
Yet another thread degenerating into a debate on organic/natural??... yawn...
Wake me up when something interesting comes up.

Chemicals are bad? - try going without dihydromonoxide.
Hemlock can be both organic and natural - I still wouldn't recommend it for a metheglyn.

And so it goes...

Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT

JDWebb
02-04-2015, 12:24 AM
LOL Medsen Fey...I live a pretty chemically treated life, all the heart meds I have to take. I have HCM, will likely die from it in a few years, at least I probably won't die from eating a poisonous corn cob or turkey salad...LOL

EJM3
02-04-2015, 01:41 AM
I'm a pragmatist and go with as chemical free as possible, if that is labeled as organic, meh... I started off against using most common chems in ferments due to friends possible allergies. I found out what was actually used, instead of the totalitarian label "chems are bad" and now I just make sure they are labeled and they get their batch made separately. My mass of scripts say that I am not 100% organic myself to begin with, I just try and limit exposure to extra potential problems as I go along...

Sorry about the getting off topic...