Cyser fails to launch

drbald1 · May 28, 2015

So I started a cyser on Monday, as follows:
5 Gallons
20 lbs Pure & Simple Honey
Red Star Cote des Blancs, 2 packs
1/2 tsp nutrient
1/4 tsp energizer
No Boil
3 cinnamon sticks
1 tsp dried orange peel
6 whole cloves
13 qts Apple Juice (no preservatives, Vitamin C added)
Hydrometer reading 1.16
Temp is around 73 F.

As of yesterday, no action in the airlock. I stirred it like crazy last night and still nothing today. I'm debating adding nutrient or energizer (seems like it should have enough stuff to eat, though) or adding another pack of yeast.

Thoughts?

Squatchy · May 28, 2015

I'm pretty sure you have a few issues going on here. Your gravity is way to high to start with. If it were me I would have started around 1120 and after it had a chance for the yeast to eat some of the honey then I would have added the rest. I'm thinking your osmotic pressure was too high for the little ones to get started. Secondly, you may have and just didn't post it,,,, but,,, Again, if it were me, I would use Go-ferm and start your yeast off that way. Look it up,, google,, you will find the product and the protocol. If you just tossed the dry yeast into the must I doubt they would even had stood a chance. Lastly, with a gravity that high and in a 5 gallon batch I would suggest 20 grams of yeast at a minimum,,(4 packs) and at least rehydrate with clean tap water at 104 degrees and after 15 minutes start adding must at 1/3rd the amount of starter together. (example,,,1 cup starter volume =add 1/3 cup must,, ten minutes later add 1/3rd of the 1.33 cups in the starter,,,repeat) This does 2 things. It allows the yeast to start getting use to the higher gravity and the 2 different temps slowly begin to get closer to each other. Do this every 10 - 15 minutes until the temp in your starter is the same as your 5 gallons of must. That way you won't shock them with extreme temp changes dumping warm yeast into a much colder must. Make sure to get a lot of oxygen in your must and the slowly pour your starter into the must and let is sit covered with a cloth for the first half of your fermentation before you place it into a bunged up carboy. And ,, if you can you should try to keep you temps below 70. 62-64 is ideal.

You may like it but that many cloves for my taste would be almost borderline too much.

drbald1 · May 28, 2015

I wasn't very clear about my yeast & nutrients. I started the yeast, energizer, and nutrient about an hour before pitching by rehydrating at about 100 F. That's worked very well for me, but of course the SG wasn't this crazy. I'm following a recipient from....we'll I think I got it here.

drbald1 · May 28, 2015

Squatchy, what would you do to recover this batch?

Squatchy · May 28, 2015

Not sure how you started your yeast. They need to just re-hydrate in plain water and no nutrients,,, unless it's Go-ferm. If no Go-ferm just use water. The nutrients wound the yeast in re-hydration. I would take part of your must and dilute it down to 1120. Maybe make 2 gallons at 1120. Start some new yeast and proof your yeast. Follow what I wrote above so you atemperate the yeast. Once you have some action in your starter pitch it into your 2 gallon batch. After the lag phase is over and you have some good proof of fermentation and they have chewed some of the sugar up add another gallon. Let the gravity drop again and add the rest of your must. Make sure when you add the bigger amounts of must to what is already going on that the temps are close together.

When you are first doing the re-hydration they say not to add more must into your active stuff if the temp is 10 degrees apart. This will prevent temperature shock. In the future if you want to add that much honey to a batch start it out at between 1000 and 1200. Add the remaining honey in stages so you don't push it over 1200 and that way you can keep your yeast happy.
Hope that helps.

Ask for more help if you need

drbald1 · May 29, 2015

I've had very good results in my traditional sweet meads rehydrating the yeast for a while at around 110 F then letting them cool naturally to the temp of the must. Then I pitch with nutrient and energizer.

As for saving this batch, I think I'm going to take it down as close to 1.1 as I can get & start some new yeast.

Squatchy · May 29, 2015

Sounds like a plan. The cooling down idea is good. LLamand says they add some other stuff, or get it on board they yeast before the dry out (not sure how that happens) that gives them a good kick in the pants for the first half hour after the hydrate. They say if you wait longer that affect is no longer viable. That's the only reason I was saying to add bit of must slowly, a bit at a time to atemperate at a faster pace so you could pitch before the "kick start" is over. You could just make a real starter as well. I don't know that a "real starter" is any different than re-hydrating several pouches of yeast at the same time. I just try to get through lag as fast as I can so the bad guys don't have much chance to gain any ground.

Squatchy · Jun 2, 2015

drbald1 said:
I've had very good results in my traditional sweet meads rehydrating the yeast for a while at around 110 F then letting them cool naturally to the temp of the must. Then I pitch with nutrient and energizer.

As for saving this batch, I think I'm going to take it down as close to 1.1 as I can get & start some new yeast.

What ever happened with this????

mannye · Jun 2, 2015

Sounded to me like he might have also been too acid... I wonder if it ever worked? (fixed my "too")

Squatchy · Jun 2, 2015

mannye said:
Sounded to me like he might have also been to acid... I wonder if it ever worked?

Ya. After rereading his post you might be right

drbald1 · Jun 3, 2015

I pulled a gallon out, added distilled H2O, and got the SG down to about 1.2. Added 2 packets of the same yeast, but no more energizer or nutrient. Aerated like mad. 8 hours later, it was bubbling furiously. That was Saturday. Took a hydrometer reading last night, and it was around 1.06. Now I'm watching the hydrometer closely, and we'll see what it tastes like when we're at our target.

So.... we saved it. Good work, folks. Well played.

Squatchy · Jun 3, 2015

Glad to here of your success

Squatchy · Jun 3, 2015

Your going to feed it now, right?

drbald1 · Jun 3, 2015

Well, it's already got the original nutrients added the first time, as well as a TON of sugars. It's fermenting just fine, so I think we'll taste test as we go and let it do it's thing.

mannye · Jun 3, 2015

Just keep a nose on it. If it starts to smell like hell (brimstone and sulphur...actually hell) then feed it.

Sent from my TARDIS at the restaurant at the end of the universe while eating Phil.

drbald1 · Jun 4, 2015

Ha! Well, right now it smells like liquid amazing.

mannye · Jun 7, 2015

Excellent! Mine is also bubbling away happily. It's more of a cider with a cup of honey to kick it up a notch but those 1388 yeasties are happy

Sent from my TARDIS at the restaurant at the end of the universe while eating Phil.

Squatchy · Aug 14, 2015

How about an up date

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

mannye · Aug 15, 2015

Mine went very well. Ended up a little thin but very tasty. It's gone! Next time I will make 5 gallons and force carb in a keg.

Sent from my TARDIS at the restaurant at the end of the universe while eating Phil.

Mikeymu · Oct 10, 2015

I did a batch of cyser and it didn't get going. I found when I remembered to check the ph it was too low. After raising with potassium carbonate (I think it's called that) it started more effectively. 4 is much better than 2.8 for the yeasties.

Cyser fails to launch

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