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Farmboyc
06-24-2016, 11:04 AM
I am looking to make my first cyser soon. I am curious if caramelizing some or all of the honey would be a good idea?

What type of influence on the flavour profile could I expect? I have never made a bochet or used caramelized honey in any fermentation to date.

I am planning on taking it dry and using either KV 1116 or 71B.

WVMJack
06-24-2016, 08:02 PM
Its very good, might want to reconsider keeping it dry, at least a little sweetness to bring out the caramel might be a better way to go. I am doing one with crabapples and a lot of backsweetening. WVMJ

Farmboyc
06-24-2016, 08:36 PM
Its very good, might want to reconsider keeping it dry, at least a little sweetness to bring out the caramel might be a better way to go. I am doing one with crabapples and a lot of backsweetening. WVMJ
How much of the honey do you caramelize?

I would expect that it is similiar to oak toast levels in the flavour.
Darker = smoky, roast coffee
Med = caramel , vanillia

Do you have a favoured yeast?
Favoured ABV?
What do you use for to backsweeten? I was thinking apple juice.

Any advice would be appreciated.

HeidrunsGift
06-25-2016, 11:57 AM
From my limited experience with bochets (I've only tried one), heating the sugar to the point that it is caramelized will destroy a lot of the sugars' ability to ferment. I had read about this before, so I even tried using a lower temperature for a longer duration (vice short duration at higher temperature). I think the OG was a little under 1.110, so with the EC-1118 I used should have fermented dry, but came out a little over 1.020 ish. Tasted good, but not nearly as dry as I wanted it. I boiled orange blossom honey until is was a medium-dark level. Its about 6 months old now, and the last time I tried it, it kind of tasted like a candy version of sweet potato. Definitely a different style mead than what I was used to, but good.

I think adding cider would go well with a bochet, but would recommend taking into account a lot of residual sweetness coming from un-fermentable sugars.

Farmboyc
06-25-2016, 01:43 PM
Thanks.

I think I will just caramelize 1/2 the honey. I want the apple flavour to dominate and a light caramel to compliment it.

At least that will be the goal.

hopfanatic
06-29-2016, 10:40 AM
Since the caramelized sugar won't ferment properly, would it be of benefit to add the caramelized honey after fermentation is complete? i.e. secondary/aging?

Slainte!

Squatchy
06-29-2016, 02:44 PM
It's not true that caramelized honey won't ferment. We have recently had a thread about that where I and others posted notes about our bothers.��

pokerfacepablo
07-09-2016, 04:07 AM
It's not true that caramelized honey won't ferment. We have recently had a thread about that where I and others posted notes about our bothers.��
Can you post the link to the thread

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Squatchy
07-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Can you post the link to the thread

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I'll try to find it. I think what we found was at most 10% of the sugar remained unfermentable. I had a couple that went close to dry.

Squatchy
07-14-2016, 08:50 AM
Can you post the link to the thread

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Here ya go Pablo,,, http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/25304-Cranberry-Bochet?highlight=Bochet

pokerfacepablo
07-15-2016, 12:14 PM
Thanks Squatch.

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WVMJack
07-16-2016, 07:37 PM
That thread uses grocery store honey and really not a good discussion about Bochet. Bochet can have so many variables, what kind of honey you use determines the ration of the different sugars, different sugars caramelize at different temperatures, there is also a lot of variability in how much people heat up the honey as far as darkness levels. Some of our darker, like black dark from good raw honey didnt ferment out to dryness while some that were pressure cooker darkened fermented out further, but, it wasnt the same batch of honey so hard to do a comparison. WVMJ

Squatchy
07-16-2016, 08:39 PM
That thread uses grocery store honey and really not a good discussion about Bochet. Bochet can have so many variables, what kind of honey you use determines the ration of the different sugars, different sugars caramelize at different temperatures, there is also a lot of variability in how much people heat up the honey as far as darkness levels. Some of our darker, like black dark from good raw honey didnt ferment out to dryness while some that were pressure cooker darkened fermented out further, but, it wasnt the same batch of honey so hard to do a comparison. WVMJ

I hadn't realized that. I can say with my batch it was not grocery store honey. It was good honey and I did it in a pot and not a pressure cooker. I cooked it until a darker maple syrup color as I didn'y want it to get super dark and taste burnt.

Farmboyc
04-25-2017, 01:48 PM
So I brewed this and I have a question.

Will.tje apple flavour "come back" with age? Right now there is a slight caramel and apple flavor.
I was advised that it would take 6+ months for the caramel to come through.
Just wondering if I can reasonably expect the apple to.assert itself or if stabilizing and flavouring with concentrate would be the better way to go.

Thanks for any input you may have.

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