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Mikeymu
11-07-2016, 05:22 AM
My recipe:

1gallon white pyment.

3lbs local honey
2 pints juice from home-grown grapes (green)
water to a gallon
1 teaspoon pectic enzyme & 1 campden tablet (at the start)
1.5 teaspoons total yeast nutrient 50:50 DAP and Tronozymol
1 cup of black tea (for tannin)
K 1116V yeast
1 campden tablet & 1 teaspoon sorbate (to stabilise at end)

The must was made by mixing the local honey with warm water, grape juice and tea.
A crushed campden tablet was added, then 12 hours later, the pectic enzyme.
The yeast was pitched 12 hours after that, giving the pectic enzyme time to work.
Once fermentation was complete the pyment was racked in a carboy and left to clear.
Once fully clear the pyment was racked and topped up with other (trad) mead.
The mead was degassed and stabilised using a campden tablet and the sorbate.

1 year later it has a bitter taste that some other wines I make have - e.g. raspberry & redcurrant wine, mango etc.

I wondered if it was the stabilising chemicals....

Does anyone know what is causing this, or what I can do about it?

caduseus
11-07-2016, 09:30 AM
K sorbate can have a bad taste after a year. It is not recommended to do it early but rather bulk age and then bottle before drinking and then add k sorbate.
Once you add k sorbate you have placed a 1 year expiration date for wahtever you add it to: mead or wine.
This is why most mead makers cold crash or back sweeten until the yeast can't ferment any more.

bernardsmith
11-07-2016, 10:21 AM
I wonder if it is possible that the wine was undergoing or had undergone MLF (malo-lacto fermentation). If so the presence of K-sorbate can create off flavors that arise from the geraniol that is produced - a flavor that people say is akin to the way geraniums smell. If there is any possibility that there is an MLF you should not use K-sorbate. Do you have a chromatography kit to test for MLF

Mikeymu
11-07-2016, 06:04 PM
I wonder if it is possible that the wine was undergoing or had undergone MLF (malo-lacto fermentation). If so the presence of K-sorbate can create off flavors that arise from the geraniol that is produced - a flavor that people say is akin to the way geraniums smell. If there is any possibility that there is an MLF you should not use K-sorbate. Do you have a chromatography kit to test for MLF

No but I don't think it could be MLF - it's a real bitter taste, rather than a sour one, which is noticeable through the honey and wine flavours.

Mikeymu
11-07-2016, 06:08 PM
K sorbate can have a bad taste after a year. It is not recommended to do it early but rather bulk age and then bottle before drinking and then add k sorbate.
Once you add k sorbate you have placed a 1 year expiration date for wahtever you add it to: mead or wine.
This is why most mead makers cold crash or back sweeten until the yeast can't ferment any more.

I remember I did stabilise early on and am betting on this as the cause. I will leave these wines with bitter after-tastes for a few months and then see if they become less bitter.

I am thinking of not using k sorbate in the future and relying on not back-sweetening or using non-fermentable sweeteners. Any thoughts? I'm even thinking of leaving out the k-metabisulphate (campden tabs) since these are to prevent oxidation and when bottled there is hardly any oxygen in that small air gap. Any thoughts shared would be gratefully received.

Squatchy
11-07-2016, 07:33 PM
It has not been my experience at all of bitter taste from stabilizing agents. Most of the commercial wines you buy have aged for a few years at least before they even go on a shelf. Some for many years. Personally, I doubt that is the culprit. I also don't think most mazers go without using stabilizing chems as has been suggested. If you use Sorbate then I am told you need to use the sufite so you don't get geraniol. I do however think DAP shows up every time it's used. Perhaps you might like to go mix a little DAP in some water and taste it and see if that is what you are finding in your finish profile. I know nothing of Tronozymol except the first ingredient is DAP.

Your Camden tabs are sodium meta and that will also add a salty piece to your mead. I buy potassium Meta for that very reason.

Mikeymu
11-08-2016, 11:06 AM
It has not been my experience at all of bitter taste from stabilizing agents. Most of the commercial wines you buy have aged for a few years at least before they even go on a shelf. Some for many years. Personally, I doubt that is the culprit. I also don't think most mazers go without using stabilizing chems as has been suggested. If you use Sorbate then I am told you need to use the sufite so you don't get geraniol. I do however think DAP shows up every time it's used. Perhaps you might like to go mix a little DAP in some water and taste it and see if that is what you are finding in your finish profile. I know nothing of Tronozymol except the first ingredient is DAP.

Your Camden tabs are sodium meta and that will also add a salty piece to your mead. I buy potassium Meta for that very reason.

If it is the DAP producing this bitter taste does it age out?

Squatchy
11-08-2016, 02:13 PM
I don't know

Squatchy
11-08-2016, 10:45 PM
K sorbate can have a bad taste after a year. It is not recommended to do it early but rather bulk age and then bottle before drinking and then add k sorbate.
Once you add k sorbate you have placed a 1 year expiration date for wahtever you add it to: mead or wine.
This is why most mead makers cold crash or back sweeten until the yeast can't ferment any more.

Hi Caduseus

I PM'd you and never heard back. Can you post links to where you got your info about what you posted here about K Sorbate please :)