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caduseus
12-06-2016, 12:04 PM
I have done a half-gallon traditional bochet (50% caramelized and 50% regular honey- both clover).

This was not bad but is now sadly gone.
I would like to do a gallon batch- 70/30 this time with minimal caramelizing.
While I have added various things to my meads, I would like some input about adding to a Bochet.
Mainly I am interested in oak and/or fruit adding to the bochet.

Has anyone done any of these and if so was it primary or secondary? Does it need more or less compared to a mead?

Thanks for the help

Squatchy
12-06-2016, 02:56 PM
I have added chi tea after stabilizing. Same with cold pressed coffee. Same with an acerglyn I made. I've also added crushed cranberries. I added some prune/port style mead I made as well. I have really had great feedback on all of them.

caduseus
12-06-2016, 04:38 PM
I have added chi tea after stabilizing. Same with cold pressed coffee. Same with an acerglyn I made. I've also added crushed cranberries. I added some prune/port style mead I made as well. I have really had great feedback on all of them.

1) different amounts than a mead?
2) primary or secondary?
3) have you added oak and if so different than mead?

Squatchy
12-06-2016, 08:30 PM
Same amount honey as mead. (Bochet is a mead) I have found I end up with less than %5 of unfermentable sugars. Many of what I have read leads one to believe it has more "unfermentable sugars" than mu experience. Keep in mind I superman the shit out of my yeast with "best practices" and seem to get better results with the most current science than before.

I added everything in above after stable.

I add oak to damn near everything. My approach to oaking is maybe a bit different than most. I have found I get lots of complexity and added breadth to my meads by adding different oaks (species and toast levels) and can remove them before it gets so prominent that people can call out 1) that it has even been oaked. Or 2) That it is strong enough that an experienced tongue can call out what species. In other words. I like to add it and often times let it fly under the radar. Enough to add some mystery to my meads but not so strong that it can easily be called out.

Lastly. I found it took several months (7-9) before the caramel notes started to really come across as caramel. Also. I personally feel it's easy to go too dark while cooking the honey and end up too bitter.

My hunch, if you were making your recipe for my taste that it would be too little of the caramel notes. I might suggest doing a full cooked ratio and maybe be prepared to add a straight trad to it latter, if you fell it's too much caramel in the finished profile

It ends up somewhat bitter (like baking chocolate) any way you make it. At least in the few times I have. I found a little vanilla seemed to add some balanced, or "percieved sweetness" to counter the semi bitter /tart from the cooked honey.

Hope that's clear as mud :)

Let me know if I can help any further.

I have always wondered if doing this with a darker/ish honey would be better suited than the lighter honeys I have always used!

caduseus
12-06-2016, 09:26 PM
Same amount honey as mead. (Bochet is a mead) I have found I end up with less than %5 of unfermentable sugars. Many of what I have read leads one to believe it has more "unfermentable sugars" than mu experience. Keep in mind I superman the shit out of my yeast with "best practices" and seem to get better results with the most current science than before.

I added everything in above after stable.

I add oak to damn near everything. My approach to oaking is maybe a bit different than most. I have found I get lots of complexity and added breadth to my meads by adding different oaks (species and toast levels) and can remove them before it gets so prominent that people can call out 1) that it has even been oaked. Or 2) That it is strong enough that an experienced tongue can call out what species. In other words. I like to add it and often times let it fly under the radar. Enough to add some mystery to my meads but not so strong that it can easily be called out.

Lastly. I found it took several months (7-9) before the caramel notes started to really come across as caramel. Also. I personally feel it's easy to go too dark while cooking the honey and end up too bitter.

My hunch, if you were making your recipe for my taste that it would be too little of the caramel notes. I might suggest doing a full cooked ratio and maybe be prepared to add a straight trad to it latter, if you fell it's too much caramel in the finished profile

It ends up somewhat bitter (like baking chocolate) any way you make it. At least in the few times I have. I found a little vanilla seemed to add some balanced, or "percieved sweetness" to counter the semi bitter /tart from the cooked honey.

Hope that's clear as mud :)

Let me know if I can help any further.

I have always wondered if doing this with a darker/ish honey would be better suited than the lighter honeys I have always used!

Thanks for the help.
1) But would you say you use your oak any differently with bochet compared to the meads you have made? If so what was different?

2) I noticed you are a fan of CY3079. I have not used it yet as I was waiting for cooler weather. About 3 months ago i was amazed by the flavor profile i read on this yeast (https://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf. page 6 and 7). I have been looking forward to trying it. Have you tried this yeast in any Bochets? if so which one? what did you think of the results?

3) you mention darker honeys.... well my pumpkin spice mead this fall was a hit. I was considering doing a Bochet with that recipe using meadowfoam honey that i recently acquired. I want that caramel and marshmallow flavor mixed with the pumpkin. Not sure if I will use 3079 as above or another yeast yet. (I brewed not until August so i was stuck with EC-1118 hence i am going to brew soon for next fall). Your thoughts?

WVMJack
12-07-2016, 04:29 AM
Reference Elders Blood Bochetomel, if you dare....

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/21067-Elders-Blood-Bochetomel?highlight=bochetomel

Squatchy
12-07-2016, 09:43 AM
1, No
2, Different yeast
3 Break up your must and do a side by side of different yeast.

caduseus
12-07-2016, 12:50 PM
1, No
2, Different yeast
3 Break up your must and do a side by side of different yeast.

Thanks again for your assistance

Squatchy
12-07-2016, 04:38 PM
No problem. Glad to help