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rookie2531
03-21-2017, 09:02 PM
I will make it short as possible because last couple threads never came through.

I started a 3 gallon batch and only saw bubbling for 24 hours.

i didnt have hydrometer to start but got one now.
after 6 days sitting sp reading was 1.51 , tasted it and was sweet and definitely had alcohol in it.
I added 1.75 gallon water to get reading down to 1.1 added more yeast and put lid back on. if this post, i will add more info

rookie2531
03-21-2017, 09:18 PM
Tried to post all ingredients and more info bur tavlet seized. I think this site has problems as i have seen multiple issues here and only here.

darigoni
03-21-2017, 09:30 PM
Tried to post all ingredients and more info bur tavlet seized. I think this site has problems as i have seen multiple issues here and only here.

The site does have some size issues, so when posting you'll need to make sure that you wait long enough for your post to completely upload. This may take a few extra moments than with most websites that you visit and, at times, will appear that the site has "seized". Be patient.

caduseus
03-21-2017, 09:39 PM
I will make it short as possible because last couple threads never came through.

I started a 3 gallon batch and only saw bubbling for 24 hours.

i didnt have hydrometer to start but got one now.
after 6 days sitting sp reading was 1.51 , tasted it and was sweet and definitely had alcohol in it.
I added 1.75 gallon water to get reading down to 1.1 added more yeast and put lid back on. if this post, i will add more info

Do you mean 1.051? After 6 days

Trenchie
03-21-2017, 10:12 PM
If those numbers are correct, and they possibly could be, the sugar content of the must was way to high for the yeast. I suggest they (the yeast) had enough growth power to get through rehydration and the lag phase only to find they couldn't stand the osmotic pressure (if that's the right term) i.e. to much sugar basically drew the water right out of them and they can't operate without their water (like us). re confirm that specific gravity, maybe check the acidity, and re pitch.

And welcome to forum. don't forget to peruse the newbee guide (link above in the green navigation bar).

-T

rookie2531
03-21-2017, 11:35 PM
I wrote it wrong. S.g. was 1.151 after fermenting 6 days. I added water and more yeast to bring it to 1.100. Sorry. First time using hydro and not good at it obviously.

rookie2531
03-21-2017, 11:46 PM
I wish i could tell you what the gravity reading was before i pitched. And from now on, will get a reading.

Here is what i started with

14.5 pounds honey
4 pounds sugar
1 orange zested and sliced
2 cinnamon sticks
75-100 raisins
Pinch allspice
3 packs Fleishman yeast. 2 packs were hydrated per directions, one was tossed in after pitching liquid yeast foam.

Everything came up to 3 gallon mark.

Must was 84 when pitched and dry yeast thrown in as well.

It was weird, because after 24 hours of waiting for bubbles, i shook bucket and it started bubbling. Went 24 hours later to stir to add more oxygen and barely moved the hose and it stopped, never did bubble again. Thats when i registered here and ordered hydro.

caduseus
03-22-2017, 12:04 AM
I wish i could tell you what the gravity reading was before i pitched. And from now on, will get a reading.

Here is what i started with

14.5 pounds honey
4 pounds sugar
1 orange zested and sliced
2 cinnamon sticks
75-100 raisins
Pinch allspice
3 packs Fleishman yeast. 2 packs were hydrated per directions, one was tossed in after pitching liquid yeast foam.

Everything came up to 3 gallon mark.

Must was 84 when pitched and dry yeast thrown in as well.

It was weird, because after 24 hours of waiting for bubbles, i shook bucket and it started bubbling. Went 24 hours later to stir to add more oxygen and barely moved the hose and it stopped, never did bubble again. Thats when i registered here and ordered hydro.

1) Why did you add sugar? That just stresses the yeast out more and adds no flavor to your mead. This by far was your biggest mistake. NEVER add regular white sugar and even brown sugar would be for backsweeten/flavor in select cases.
2) Too much honey even if you DIDNT add the sugar. IF this is a JAOM variant that would be 10.5 pounds honey for 3 gallons and you added 14.5.
3) If this is JAOM then everything needs to be tripled- including the oranges

It is good you diluted it but not sure if that will be enough.
And where exactly did you get this recipe from?

rookie2531
03-22-2017, 01:27 AM
1) Why did you add sugar? That just stresses the yeast out more and adds no flavor to your mead. This by far was your biggest mistake. NEVER add regular white sugar and even brown sugar would be for backsweeten/flavor in select cases.
2) Too much honey even if you DIDNT add the sugar. IF this is a JAOM variant that would be 10.5 pounds honey for 3 gallons and you added 14.5.
3) If this is JAOM then everything needs to be tripled- including the oranges

It is good you diluted it but not sure if that will be enough.
And where exactly did you get this recipe from?

I had more details and answers to your questions on my first two posts, that never made it through. And after writing a novel of details twice, the details tend to dwindle, because lack of faith that the third post will make it through as well.

1. Why sugar? Being total newb, i heard that more sugar equaled more abv% if thats even the correct abbreviation. After messing up totally, reading more and learning more. I have since learned that types of yeast stop or die when alcohol reaches certain %. No matter how much sugar is added. Also, i added more honey than i originally thought and this is the actual amount, but when making up this batch i thought it was 10 pounds honey and 4 pounds sugar.

2. Where did you get this recipe?
It was on the internet, but like before, i added that it was modified, but got ommitted by the third try at posting my question, due to no faith it would post.

As for the oranges, i only had one in the fridge, thus the reason for zesting it, to get the citrus kick. And i should mention, it is very orange flavor and probably will not do zest again, because the orange yaste is very strong.

I wander why you think the dilution may not be enough? The gravity reading after diluting was 1.100
Im not being sarcastic, but really do want to know why you think its not enough? Because, before i got the hydro in the mail i was also thinking it would end up being more like 6.3 gallons after dilute. But hydro read 1.100 after only adding 1.75 gallons.

Dadux
03-22-2017, 04:33 AM
I had more details and answers to your questions on my first two posts, that never made it through. And after writing a novel of details twice, the details tend to dwindle, because lack of faith that the third post will make it through as well.

1. Why sugar? Being total newb, i heard that more sugar equaled more abv% if thats even the correct abbreviation. After messing up totally, reading more and learning more. I have since learned that types of yeast stop or die when alcohol reaches certain %. No matter how much sugar is added. Also, i added more honey than i originally thought and this is the actual amount, but when making up this batch i thought it was 10 pounds honey and 4 pounds sugar.

2. Where did you get this recipe?
It was on the internet, but like before, i added that it was modified, but got ommitted by the third try at posting my question, due to no faith it would post.

As for the oranges, i only had one in the fridge, thus the reason for zesting it, to get the citrus kick. And i should mention, it is very orange flavor and probably will not do zest again, because the orange yaste is very strong.

I wander why you think the dilution may not be enough? The gravity reading after diluting was 1.100
Im not being sarcastic, but really do want to know why you think its not enough? Because, before i got the hydro in the mail i was also thinking it would end up being more like 6.3 gallons after dilute. But hydro read 1.100 after only adding 1.75 gallons.

Welcome to the forum, rookie2531

Copy anything long before posting it and paste it on a word document or something, just in case. I do it all the time. You can the erase it.

As for the recipe, you added too much sugar (sugar from the sugar and sugar from the honey). Without going into detail there is this thing called osmotic pressure. Its a pressure that affects the yeast because there is too high a concentration of sugar or salt outside the cell compared to what is inside the cell. This causes the water inside the cell to leak out, and the cell dies. 1.15 is too much for bread yeast, when you pitched them they had a osmotic shock and died in 24h. They tried to survive but didnt make it past 24h or less thats why you only had some bubbles at the start and thats why it wont ferment, you killed the yeast and even if you diluted it, you did so after they died.
1.100 should be ok so you might start seeing signs of ferment. If you dont, take another reading, carefully. Make sure to stir before you do it, and to check all the honey is dissolved. Rehidrate the yeast before adding it just in case.

More sugar = more abv up to a point. Bread yeast wont get you further than 11% or so with this recipe.

The flavour of the orange will diminish. You should maybe add one or two more oranges without zest. That will help the yeast and not give much orange flavour. After the ferment is fone, if you feel like it, you can add more zest for more flavour. If you are doing JAOM, add some cloves (3-4) maybe, and you are missing a couple cinnamon sticks. Its not NECESSARY that you add those. Just ehat the recipe calls for.

You can still save this batch, but better get moving. When did you add the last pack of yeast? After diluting it? If so how long ago was that? 1 pack for all 4.75 gallons is too little. You might not see bubbles but they might be alive if you pitched after diluting (which is what i understood)

rookie2531
03-22-2017, 09:54 AM
Thanks for replies,
Dadux, I did dilute before pitching again. I had to go out and buy more yeast and this time, boight small jar of fleishmans, not packets.
I hydrated 2 teaspoons in small jar with little sugar to help get started. Plus added a teaspoon on top must after pitching the liquid.
But before i added any yeast, i poured must from one bucket to another a couple times to get air back in must.
I have read that doing this after ferm. will give mead a carb taste, but, thought it was important to get going again, so i did it.
I think the bucket lid leaks enough that my homemade tube in a jar airlock, may not show ferm. And i will take another reading after 36 hours.

36 hours should be enough time to tell me if second ferm attempt worked, no?

Thanks for all the help.

Dadux
03-22-2017, 02:04 PM
Thanks for replies,
Dadux, I did dilute before pitching again. I had to go out and buy more yeast and this time, boight small jar of fleishmans, not packets.
I hydrated 2 teaspoons in small jar with little sugar to help get started. Plus added a teaspoon on top must after pitching the liquid.
But before i added any yeast, i poured must from one bucket to another a couple times to get air back in must.
I have read that doing this after ferm. will give mead a carb taste, but, thought it was important to get going again, so i did it.
I think the bucket lid leaks enough that my homemade tube in a jar airlock, may not show ferm. And i will take another reading after 36 hours.

36 hours should be enough time to tell me if second ferm attempt worked, no?

Thanks for all the help.

I think you are rehidrating wrong. You need 25ml of water per gram of yeast to rehidrate. Heat the water to 35-40C and add the yeast. Wait for 15 minutes. Thats is it. Sugar is actually bad while rehidrating. Wont kill the yeast but better not doing it. After the 15 min add must until the temperatures of the must and the rehidrated yeast are the same, then add the yeast to the fermentation vessel.

rookie2531
03-22-2017, 05:07 PM
ok, do you think i should test s.g. and if it went down, then yeast is working, right?
but if not, try to do over on the rehydrate yeast?

i just dont want too much yeast in the batch, but if tneres no such thing as too much yeast, i will do it anyway.

Dadux
03-22-2017, 06:55 PM
ok, do you think i should test s.g. and if it went down, then yeast is working, right?
but if not, try to do over on the rehydrate yeast?

i just dont want too much yeast in the batch, but if tneres no such thing as too much yeast, i will do it anyway.

Give it a few more hours. usually 48h since pitching is the limit. If no SG decrease nor bubbles are see, then its probably dead. You can also take a flashlight (i use the one on the phone) open the lid and aim at the surface. You may see some bubbles rising. that means its alive too.
If after 48-60h after pitching its not showing any signs of ferment, definetely add more yeast. But you can add it now too. Since you are doing over 4 gals, you should actually use 4 packs of yeast. You are probably ok with 2, so if you want, go ahead and add it...

rookie2531
03-22-2017, 11:58 PM
o.k
I used the phone light trick you suggested and saw wanderful tiny bubbles. :-)
also, the nutrient showed showed up today.

So, i hydrated two teaspoons of yeast with a tablespoon of the yeast nutrient. I boiled the water, took off heat, added nutrient and waited for temp to get down to 82

added yeast and waited 20 minutes to cool room temp.

pulled some must out and added it to yeast pan, more to make sure temps were close in range. stirred must up a bit and pitched yeast.

i cant stir vigorously any longer as the must is very close to the top.

i dont know where the post went, where you said you thought i was hgdrating wrong? i saw it, then saw it again, which looked like it was on seperate post all together, then back in line with all these threads, now gone again?

so, im thinking, in a day or two, add some more nutrient and keep adding until i dont see any more bubbles. then let it sit in that bucket for two weeks. then rack into smaller jugs. taste it and maybe add different fruits to each one. im thinking strawberry, peach, blackberries and couple others. dont know, but i think i have plenty time to think about it.

Thanks dadux and everyone else for helping me. I do appreciate it.

Dadux
03-23-2017, 04:37 AM
o.k
I used the phone light trick you suggested and saw wanderful tiny bubbles. :-)
also, the nutrient showed showed up today.

So, i hydrated two teaspoons of yeast with a tablespoon of the yeast nutrient. I boiled the water, took off heat, added nutrient and waited for temp to get down to 82

added yeast and waited 20 minutes to cool room temp.

pulled some must out and added it to yeast pan, more to make sure temps were close in range. stirred must up a bit and pitched yeast.

i cant stir vigorously any longer as the must is very close to the top.

i dont know where the post went, where you said you thought i was hgdrating wrong? i saw it, then saw it again, which looked like it was on seperate post all together, then back in line with all these threads, now gone again?

so, im thinking, in a day or two, add some more nutrient and keep adding until i dont see any more bubbles. then let it sit in that bucket for two weeks. then rack into smaller jugs. taste it and maybe add different fruits to each one. im thinking strawberry, peach, blackberries and couple others. dont know, but i think i have plenty time to think about it.

Thanks dadux and everyone else for helping me. I do appreciate it.

I did post about the rehidration. 25ml of water per gram of yeast, at 35-40C, no sugar no must no nutrients. Only water (and goferm but you probably dont have that. Its not necesary either)
Please use the search engine on the forum before asking because 99% of what new people ask is already answered many times, and you can read how to do things right.
What nutrient did you buy?
Depending in that you should add more or less. For exact ammounts search the site. More than you should add will cause bad things and so will adding less. Also the "when" matters. And if you can do it, provide measures in grams. If not, tsp and tbsp are the second prefered measuring units.
You should also read the newbee guide it has all a beginer needs to start doing mead, instead of doing things blindly.
My point is you can answer your questions yourself just searching and before doing things that might be wrong. and if you dont find the answers you need, then ask. And after that, do things. This will stop you from commiting a lot of mistakes
I get meadmaking is hard and it has a lot of things you should and should not do. If you want to learn and keep doing mead you need to start reading the basics that are already out there. The other option is searching for a recipe and sticking to it to the letter. Nothing bad with being a one-timer.

I say all this because i dont mind answering questions but there is a place (the newbee guide) that explains the basics, and if you dont at least know that its really hard for me and others to write everything and go into more advanced techniques. In the guide you will find how to take basic care of your mead, how to start making it, what is racking, SNA, SG and FG, and answers to a lot of questions you still have not even thought about. From there you can start reading the forum and we can point you to even better ways of doing things, but you really need the base.

Apart from that, you did a few mistakes but probably the ferment will get going and you will get mead in a few weeks. It will probably be very harsh and take some time to age, but it will most likely become drinkable and enjoyable.
Mead is like wine in that it benefits a lot from ageing. But the better you do things, the less you will need to wait for the mead to be "good", or "drinkable".

Take a gravity reading in a day or two and let us know how it goes. Read about the use of nutrients (search for whatever brand you have, and the guide has a chapter on this too) and tell us what type you have before adding more too.

darigoni
03-23-2017, 09:14 AM
Well said Dadux! Because we know the next questions are going to be about racking, clearing, stabilizing and back sweetening!

rookie2531
03-23-2017, 11:25 AM
o.k. dadux

i will read more as i have skimmed through it, but will get in depth with it.

the nutrient is a baggy labeled . LD carlson yeast nutrient 1tsp. per gallon
contains food grade urea and diammonium phosphate.

I will read up on the fermentation processes and get a reading in a couple days, and report back before doing anything else.

Thanks for your patience, as i understand, you dont want to take time to repeat whats already in writing. (1000 times) plus the newbee guide.

thanks again

Dadux
03-23-2017, 05:08 PM
o.k. dadux

i will read more as i have skimmed through it, but will get in depth with it.

the nutrient is a baggy labeled . LD carlson yeast nutrient 1tsp. per gallon
contains food grade urea and diammonium phosphate.

I will read up on the fermentation processes and get a reading in a couple days, and report back before doing anything else.

Thanks for your patience, as i understand, you dont want to take time to repeat whats already in writing. (1000 times) plus the newbee guide.

thanks again

Nah no problem explaining or repeating things. But only certain things, if you dont understand them. I was a newbee myself once, so i dont mind giving back to the community. But all the knowledge about meadmaking is very extense. Its not that i dont want to repeat it, just that if i have to explain it ALL, it would take pages and pages, and since its already written, well its sort of pointless. once you inform yourself we'll be glad to answer any question left or point to more advanced techniques so you can improve your future meads and this one!
I just want you to go through the fast lane here, but please dont feel like you dont have to ask. ask all you need. but if you do the basic research first it will save time for both yourself and the people who answer.

About the nutrient, its only inorganic nutrient. I hope you didnt buy much because its sort of low grade. you should not add more for the moment. instead add some more oranges as i sugested ( 2 or 3, peel off the zest and the pith if you dont want flavour. if you want orange flavour add zest and meat, but not the pith since its very bitter), or other fruits, to add some nutrients for the yeast. Alternatively in 2-3 days take another pack of yeast, and boil it for 5 minutes, then add it to the mead. Yeast cannibilize their dead so the yeast taht is alive will eat the boiled yeasts.
Other better alternatives for nutrients are Fermaid O (the best) or Fermaid K/wyeast beer or wine nutrient/Fermax/Superfood/Superfood plus/Tronozymol (they are all similar). You might only have one or two of those avaliable depending on where you are from. If you are from america go with the Fermaid brand. it would be advisable getting any of those before the next batch if you plan on doing another batch.

rookie2531
03-23-2017, 06:01 PM
again, Thanks Dadux.

I will add some more oranges and boil some yeast and add it later as well.
I am in America and will look at other nutrients available. I am currently looking for a good reliable supply store (online).
I also will update my user info.

Thank you once again. I will update in couple days.

Dadux
03-23-2017, 06:23 PM
again, Thanks Dadux.

I will add some more oranges and boil some yeast and add it later as well.
I am in America and will look at other nutrients available. I am currently looking for a good reliable supply store (online).
I also will update my user info.

Thank you once again. I will update in couple days.

i think some suppliers are morewine.com and other winemaking supliers. The nutrients are the same for wine and mead. And at least some have free shipping. I am from spain so its only what i read sometimes here. someone from there may chime in.

rookie2531
03-26-2017, 07:08 PM
since last post, i added 4 more peeled oranges, not the peels.

next day, i noticed the lid had explosive leak around most of it. fluids down the sides and on the shelf it sat on. guess the yeast really liked those oranges, lol

just to refresh.
didnt know gravity when i started, but after 6 days of ferm. reading was 1.15
i added 1.75 gallons of water to bring reading to 1.100
Now, since bucket lid leaks, i went out and bought carboy and racked everything into it. after syphoning liquid. i used a canning funnel and put oranges and raisins and everything.

Now, the reading is 1.03. I drank the juice from the test tube and it is very strong. i got a good buzz from it. it has a strong bitter orange taste, still, but at least it isnt as sweet as it was. But , it is very strong and still bubbling.

I suppose since i dont know where the gravity was when i started and added water, it will be a guessing game on alcohol%.

Next batch is going to be straight, water,honey and yeast.

Squatchy
03-26-2017, 07:48 PM
Well. So if you end up finishing your ferment with residual sugar left behind. You can more or less figure that what ever the ABV tolerance was of the yeast is what the ABV is. The yeast will have tapped out at the ABV tolorance level of that strain. This will vary some. With the modern science we use you can figure most yeast will go beyond the listed ABV. If you did less than "best case 'senario", it may have not gotten to that point.

My hunch ios that as a newbee you may have not been up to speed with everything you could have done to get a good strong, clean ferment. That is my bet as you didn't know about SG and such.

At the end of the day you can figure pretty closely by adding how many points your yeast chewed up.