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scottlind
11-15-2004, 10:10 AM
I am ready to make my second batch ever of melomel, first batch of cherry is 30 days old and I don't have a clue as to how it will turn out.

I found this recipe and would like to get it going. Please look it over and give me some comments on what you think about it.

What yeast would you suggest for a semi sweet mead with average or above alcohol content.

Black Currant Mead 6 gal batch

12 lbs black currant (vintner's harvest)
15 lbs flower honey
1 qt red grape concentrate
34 pnts water or to 6 gals
3 tsp pectic enzyme
2 tsp nutrient
2 tsp energizer
6 tsp potassium metabisulfite
2 yeast ICV D-47
acid blend @ end if needed

Thanks in advance for checking this out for me! 8)

Scott

Jmattioli
11-15-2004, 05:51 PM
Skip the acid blend (Way too much). With tart cherries you definitely don't need it up front. Add it at the end for taste if you think it needs it after you taste it. D47 yeast would be my first choice with that recipe for a semi to sweet mead. If the Campden are for sulfiting up front remember to wait 24 - 48 hours before pitching yeast.
Joe

scottlind
11-15-2004, 05:57 PM
But how about this batch with Black Currants, would you still skip the acid and use that yeast?

Jmattioli
11-15-2004, 06:02 PM
Yep. Why not. It usually feremnts much faster when you add acid at end instead of beginning. Besides, taste will tell you a lot more than a recipe.
Joe

PS Sorry got right recipe but wrong berry. but answer still the same.

Oskaar
11-15-2004, 06:02 PM
I'm with Joe, that acid will really wreck havoc on your fruit and honey flavor. I second the D-47 yeast recommendation. As an alternative you might give the 71B-1122 or the RC-212 a try.

The 71B will help to metabolize out some of the acid from the tart cherries, and the RC 212 is good for letting the berry flavor from the cherries shine through. We've used the RC-212 to make Zinfandel before and it leaves a very nice soft berry flavor.

I would pitch two packages of whatever you are going to use. I would also consider backing off the energizer to 2 tsp and giving it 1 tsp of nutrient.

Cheers,

Oskaar

scottlind
11-15-2004, 06:07 PM
I'm with Joe, that acid will really wreck havoc on your fruit and honey flavor. I second the D-47 yeast recommendation. As an alternative you might give the 71B-1122 or the RC-212 a try.

The 71B will help to metabolize out some of the acid from the tart cherries, and the RC 212 is good for letting the berry flavor from the cherries shine through. We've used the RC-212 to make Zinfandel before and it leaves a very nice soft berry flavor.

I would pitch two packages of whatever you are going to use. I would also consider backing off the energizer to 2 tsp and giving it 1 tsp of nutrient.

Cheers,

Oskaar
Black Currants!

You guys have already been in the mead tonight haven't you ;D ;)

Oskaar
11-15-2004, 06:10 PM
Uh . . . we were just checking to see if you actually read our posts . . . yeah . . . that's it, that's the ticket, just checking!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Cheers,

Oskaar

scottlind
11-15-2004, 06:19 PM
lmao!

i thought nutrient and energizer were one in the same?

at the brew shop the lady sold me a packet of yeast energizer and a few days later the guy sold me diammonium phosphate. i told him it wasn't the same as the gal sold me and he said it is all the same??

the yeast enegizer looks tan or brownish in color and the packet of DP is snow white in color.

what gives here and which should i use and how much again?

ok, i've looked everywhere and can't find a referance for the difference between "yeast energizer" , "diammonium phosphate" and "nutrient" they all appear to bee the same ???

ok, just found this info at leeners, now i'm really confused ???

Diammonium phosphate.
Add to fermentation to increase yeast activity. Nitrogen compounds such as diammonium phosphate are vital to yeast metabolism. Should be added at beginning of fermentation, but could also be added towards the end of a slow or stuck fermentation. 1 teaspoon = approximately 4.5 g. Use 1 teaspoon per gallon for meads, fruit wines and high gravity beers. Using more than the recommended amounts gives unpleasant ammonia smell. Yeast energizer is probably a better choice in most circumstances because it contains extra vitamins and minerals to promote yeast vigor.

Yeast Energizer.
Provides essential minerals, trace nutrients and vitamins for yeast growth and metabolism during fermentation. Used to help start slow fermentation and to restart stuck ones. Use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon and stir gently. May cause foaming if added to an ongoing fermentation. 1 teaspoon = 3.7 g. Better choice than yeast nutrient which lacks some of the essential compounds needed to get sluggish yeast going. Using more than the recommended amount gives unpleasant salty flavor. Composition: Diammonium phosphate 87.7%, Nutritional yeast 7.8%, and magnesium 0.4%.

Oskaar, are you saying to use both of these in a mixture in your above post?

thanks for your help with this recipe.

scott

scottlind
11-16-2004, 08:59 AM
Jmattioli,
should i be adding the 1/2 tsp per gallon to this recipe to help in clearing it?

i read this in my other thread and would like to have clear melomel.

thanks,
scott

Jmattioli
11-16-2004, 09:21 AM
If black current already has tannins in it may not be needed. Otherwise adding it up front dissolved in warm water is a great aid and benefit.
Joe

PS Energizer and nutrients are different. I'll get you a reference ASAP.

Jmattioli
11-16-2004, 09:50 AM
Not so easy as I thought but here is info from a glossary:

Yeast Energizer:
An extraordinary nutrient, energizer is useful when making wines of high alcoholic content (over 14%) and to restart fermentation when the secondary fermentation seems "stuck." Yeast energizer contains many ingredients not found in normal nutrient, such as Riboflavin and Thiamine. The energizer is best used by dissolving 1/2 tsp. in 1/2 to 1 cup of the must or wine before adding. If the fermentation is truly "stuck" and not simply run out, the energizer may be dissolved in 1/4 cup must or wine and 1/2 cup warm (75 degrees F.) water and a pinch of fresh wine yeast added and allowed to bloom under cover over a 12-hour period. An additional 1/4 cup of wine or yeast is then added and the yeast given another 12 hours to multiply before the enriched solution is added to the fermentation bottle.

Yeast Nutrient:
Food for the yeast, containing nitrogenous matter, yeast-tolerant acid, vitamins, and certain minerals. While sugar is the main food of the yeast, nutrients are the "growth hormones," so to speak.

Oskaar
11-16-2004, 11:31 AM
From the Mead Lovers Digest #619, 2 December 1997

---Snip---
Subject: Yeast Nutrient Composition
From: Mark Evenson <wine-hop@dnvr.uswest.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:04:56 -0800

For the person with the question on chemical composition of yeast nutrient:

Three of the largest homebrew/winemaking wholesale suppliers
use varying formulas in their "house brand". Your local homebrew shop should be able to identify their source (especially if you're willing to share your info).

L.D. Carlson: (Kent, OH) food-grade urea and diammonium phosphate; white in color with fairly large, rounded granules

G.W. Kent: (Ann Arbor, MI) these folks have two types --"Nutrient" diammonium phosphate; white, small crystals similar in size to sugar crystals (though more long than square)

--"Energizer" diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulfate, thiamine, folic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate; small tan grains with some white particles visible. I believe this is from Lalvin.

Crosby & Baker (Westmort, MA) Fermax(TM) contains diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, autolyzed yeast.

DLB Vineyards (Westlake, OH) diammonium phosphate; white grains.

----Snip----

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

scottlind
11-16-2004, 11:44 AM
thanks! i guess i'll just toss in a couple of tsp of each, as long as i stay below the overload zone i should be ok.....

right?????

Oskaar
11-16-2004, 11:51 AM
Hey dude! 8)

I'd guess that 2 of nutrient and 2 of energizer would be a fair dose. Are you using tap water, filtered or some other kind of water for your batch. If you're using tap water, and the mineral content is high enough, then you can reduce the amount of energizer and nutrient to 1 tsp each and you shouldn't have problems.

Cheers,

Oskaar

scottlind
11-16-2004, 12:35 PM
hey good point!! i'm on a private well with really great water, so that brings up another good question for you.

i have a regular water softener that uses the brine/resin method.

should i use tap water from the softener or use the water that i can get before the softener?

i know my wife uses hard water for her plants.

thanks for your help, i'm learning quite a bit in the last couple of days.

hope my mead doesn't kill to many brain cells.....

Jmattioli
11-16-2004, 01:58 PM
Hard water is good for yeasts! As long as it taste fine, the yeasts will do better with it hard.
Joe

scottlind
11-16-2004, 02:14 PM
If black current already has tannins in it may not be needed. Otherwise adding it up front dissolved in warm water is a great aid and benefit.
according to this chart

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/CalcInfo/FruitInf.htm

black currents have high tannin, so i will leave it out of the recipe.

thank you once again!

Oskaar
11-16-2004, 03:11 PM
Like Joe said, if the tap water BEFORE filtration/softening tastes ok then go for it!

Oskaar