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Talon
01-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Okay, the regs say you can ferment up to 100 gallons for a single adult household, 200 for 2 or more adults in the household....
Here's my question: When does it count against your yearly limit? When you pitch the yeast or when you hold the finished product in your hand?

EG: Most of my batches in the "How many batches" post, the yeast was pitched last year. Only 3 of them have been pitched this year. Do the 3 batches pitched this year count to this years limit or do all of them count when they are bottled?

Talon.

ScottS
01-17-2005, 12:35 PM
27 CFR 24.75:


(a) General. Any adult may, without payment of tax, produce wine for personal or family use and not for sale.
(b) Quantity. The aggregate amount of wine that may be produced exempt from tax with respect to any household may not exceed:
(1) 200 gallons per calendar year for a household in which two or more adults reside, or
(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household.

There is no elaboration on what the word "produce" means. I would say that you should pick a method of measuring production (pitching yeast or bottling both seem reasonable), be consistent, and stay below 200 gals by that counting method.

Or just ignore the law, it's not really enforced anyway.

ScottS
01-17-2005, 12:52 PM
Continuing something mentioned in the other thread...

26 US Code 5053:


(e) Beer for personal or family use
Subject to regulation prescribed by the Secretary, any adult may, without payment of tax, produce beer for personal or family use and not for sale. The aggregate amount of beer exempt from tax under this subsection with respect to any household shall not exceed—
(1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are 2 or more adults in such household, or
(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only 1 adult in such household.
For purposes of this subsection, the term “adult” means an individual who has attained 18 years of age, or the minimum age (if any) established by law applicable in the locality in which the household is situated at which beer may be sold to individuals, whichever is greater.

The wine exemptions make no reference to the beer exemptions, and vice-versa. So I think your friend was right, you CAN in fact make 200 gallons of beer and 200 gallons of wine without breaking the law.

Disclosure: I am NOT a lawyer. I am merely someone who has had many situations where I've had to determine what the law really says, as opposed to what the happy little regulators want me to think it says. I'm so cheap that I'd rather learn the law myself than hire a lawyer.

Talon
01-17-2005, 02:07 PM
Yeah, what ScottS said... The interpretation may change from person to person, so be careful and don't get caught if you're going over 200 gallons period.

Norskersword
01-17-2005, 02:46 PM
I would think the gallon would count the second you pitch the yeast, i.e. the second fermentation begins.

I don't see why anyone should worry about these laws. It's not like there are government inspectors going door to door inspecting everyone's houses to make sure they arn't making too much beer or wine. ;)

Talon
01-17-2005, 03:04 PM
I guess everyone mentions it simply because it's what you're supposed to keep below in order to be "legal". That and everyone tries to put forth that they are legal in all aspects...

For me, I have to be very careful with legalities and what I can and can't do simply because I'm fighting to get visitation rights with my 1 year old son.

Oskaar
01-17-2005, 03:14 PM
Maybe I'm paranoid from the consulting work I've done with local, state and federal gov't agencies in the technology areas, but I know they are always cruising the web looking for stuff that sends up red flags.

I tend to stay away from posting stuff that sends up too many red flags. But, sometimes you just gotta say, WTF!

Cheers,

Oskaar

Dan McFeeley
01-17-2005, 04:34 PM
I came across this one on the 'net -- not very helpful since it doesn't get precise about what is meant by "produce" as related to the "calendar year."


From this URL: http://www.fallbright.com/BATF.htm

Sec. 24.75
Wine for personal or family use

(a) General. Any adult may, without payment of tax, produce wine for personal or family use and not for sale.

(b) Quantity. The aggregate amount of wine that may be produced exempt from tax with respect to any household may not exceed:

(1) 200 gallons per calendar year for a household in which two or more adults reside, or
(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household.

(c) Definition of an adult. For the purposes of this section, an adult is any individual who is 18 years of age or older. However, if the locality in which the household is located has established by law a greater minimum age at which wine may be sold to individuals, the term ``adult'' will mean an individual who has attained that age.

(d) Proprietors of bonded wine premises. Any adult, defined in Sec. 24.75(c), who operates a bonded wine premises as an individual owner or in partnership with others, may produce wine and remove it from the bonded wine premises free of tax for personal or family use, subject to the limitations in Sec. 24.75(b).

(e) Limitation. This exemption should not in any manner be construed as authorizing the production of wine in violation of applicable State or local law. Except as provided in Sec. 24.75(d), this exemption does not otherwise apply to partnerships, corporations, or associations.

(f) Removal. Wine produced under this section may be removed from the premises where made for personal or family use including use at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, such as home winemaker's contests, tastings or judgings, but may not under any circumstances be sold or offered for sale. The proprietor of a bonded wine premises shall pay the tax on any wine removed for personal or family use in excess of the limitations provided in this section and shall also enter all quantities removed for personal or family use on ATF F 5120.17, Report of Bonded Wine Premises Operations.

(Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1331, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5042))

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0216)

[T.D. ATF-299, 55 FR 24989, June 19, 1991, as amended by T.D. ATF-338, 58 FR 19064, Apr. 12, 1993; T.D. ATF-344, 58 FR 40354, July 28, 1993]


This was last updated on September 17, 1999

Norskersword
01-17-2005, 05:44 PM
It's interesting that niether the word "beer" or "alcohol" didn't come up once in this document. Does that mean these laws don't apply to them? Out of curiosity, are there other documents that refer to beer?

Sadly, I guess mead would fall under the wine catagory and these laws would apply to the home meadmaker.

ScottS
01-18-2005, 09:32 AM
Mead is explicitly defined as wine in a different section. So these rules are written to cover mead as well.

Mcfeeley's post is the entire text of 27 CFR 24.75, which I excerpted above. Beer falls under a different section of the code, 26 US Code 5053, which is also quoted above. Similar rules, but the 200 gallon limit is 200 gallons for beer AND 200 gallons for wine, not 200 gallons total.

WRATHWILDE
08-27-2005, 01:47 AM
So... just brew 200 gallons of Honey beer and 200 gallons of honey wine. ::) Now I just have to figure out where to store 80 corney kegs. Damn... forgot to add the hops. ;)

Wrathwilde