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View Full Version : Can potassium metabisulphite be removed from a product?



Tsuchi
07-04-2005, 08:53 PM
I'm wishing my local ciderhouse were more co-operative for my mead making but unfortunetly they don't know how many people might be itching to turn thier nice, sweet cider into fermented nectar. They have put both potassium metabisulphite and sorbate into thier cider... and pasturised it to boot. (can we say overkill?)

What I'm wondering is if there is any way to drive off these chemicals by way of heat, time or any way that won't destroy the cider ? I had heard about the sulphate offgassing somewhat but I can't find referances as far as doing it intentionaly.

Oskaar
07-04-2005, 11:09 PM
Massive overkill. Bummer.

I don't know of any way to remove the chemicals, and the cider would suffer from another round of heating. I'd look somewhere else for a different, more cooperative source.

cheers,

Oskaar

Brewbear
07-05-2005, 01:16 AM
Just my 0.02 cents input :-\
Sorbate interferes with the ATP production in microorganisms. As far as removing them from a solution....other than crystallization/sedimentation or distillation....Both would be too costlyand not really worth it, you would lose most of the cider's character in the process. Just like Oskaar suggested, look for a more understanding/cooperative ciderhouse owner.

Ted

Oskaar
07-05-2005, 02:47 AM
Hey BB,

ATP is pretty much a requirement for most biosynthetic pathways if I remember right. Is it that sorbate interferes with the anhydride linkages of the additional phosphate groups that bond to AMP in order to form ATP?

Oskaar

Tsuchi
07-05-2005, 08:21 AM
I'm glad someone other than me has thier science chops... Cuz I know I don't follow much more than the sudgestion that sorbate stops organisimes (in this case yeast) from living a heathy life. So I'm fairly clear that was an empatic "Not bloody likely!"

On that note I'll have to wait and see till late Aug when the other two orchards in the area open again for the season. In my area its getting down to very few as the ones that used to exist were just on the edge of the city and now they are Sifton subdivisions called "Applegate", "Orchard park" and the like. I wish the city im from would stop expanding over its local resources and build with a bit more planning.

Thanks for the heads up on micro-science things.
Shaded.

byathread
07-05-2005, 06:37 PM
In my area its getting down to very few as the ones that used to exist were just on the edge of the city and now they are Sifton subdivisions called "Applegate", "Orchard park" and the like. I wish the city im from would stop expanding over its local resources and build with a bit more planning.


It seems things are going down that road everywhere with urban sprawl, free trade, globalization. My only advice is to seek out and support as many local businesses, farms, beekeepers and organizations as you can. They may not all have websites, but seek them out through the phone book, farmer's markets and by talking to folks. I do my best in my area. I also don't shop at Walmart or eat fast food. The way I see it: every dollar spent is a vote cast!

Cheers,
Kirk - Meadmaker/activist ;D

jab
07-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Ahhh suburbia, where they tear out the trees and name streets after them.

Oskaar
07-06-2005, 12:15 AM
LOL,

In SoCal we don't even need to tear the trees out, the wind just knocks them over! We had some severe wind in January of 2003, and my neighbor across the street suffered for it. His Ficus went over and smacked his roof and suburban. There was less damage to both than I expected!

Cheers,

Oskaar



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jab
07-06-2005, 12:17 AM
Man, that is awesome! I mean it sucks for your neighbor and I am glad that things weren't too bad, but you gotta love nature!

We just had quite the storm blow through here last week and knocked off one of the neighbors trees as well.

Tsuchi
07-06-2005, 08:32 AM
Oh wow but yes the same stuff up here winds are funny things we get the odd tornado through as well though usualy in the countys surrounding us.
As for the buying local.. yes I give my money to people i LIKE. Though as i only have access to a car occasionaly (aka a public transit pedistrian kinda girl) getting to some the the home grown havens in the area is tricky. Thankfully there are some that come into the city on market days.

Anyhow that's kinda why im bemoaning the loss of the ones on the edges of the city. They lent a charachter and were easily acessable.

Brewbear
07-06-2005, 08:31 PM
Hey Oskaar,
Not sure how it actually works, I just remember reading somewhere how sorbate works, unfortunately there weren't many detailed aspect described. I know that removing it from any sollution "is tricksey" to say the least. The crystals, once dissolved, rehydrate and release a sorbic acid which is the actual germicide(from what I remember).
As for the blown trees, after many , many years working in a trauma room, you become sort of callous and adopt the "better you than me" way of thinking :-\

Ted

Oskaar
07-07-2005, 01:04 AM
Yup,

I think you're right. I checked my notes from Mic510 classes years ago. It gets in the way of AMP as well as going after the bonding in the cell walls (adenine, cytosine, uracil, guanine) from what I could discern of my chicken scratch. I looked through my applied Mic 310 notes and found my winemaking notes from that class too. It was funny because we made beer, wine, saurkraut and yogurt as projects. Well, I fudged my project and brought my own juice from the pressing we had in a Welch's grape juice bottle. Funny thing, at the end of the course, mine tasted a lot better than everyone elses! LOL

Cheers,

Oskaar

Brewbear
07-07-2005, 01:21 AM
We had a nice little simple distillation aparatus in O.Chem....The TA was cool (he partied with us) but we got busted in second year by another professor.....academic probation and all..the good ol' days LOL

Ted