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Crimson
08-17-2005, 08:22 AM
I have read quite a bit about things suchs as Fermaid K and Lavin yeast and all.

Is there a good guide or such to such things, and where to get them in Europe.

The old country here seems to have only Kitzinger All Purpose and the likes. As well as generic Yesat Nutrients and Citrus Acid.

Sander
08-17-2005, 09:14 AM
At www.brouwland.nl (http://www.brouwland.nl) they offer several wine yeasts. At www.hobbybrouwen.nl/forum (http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/forum) (a dutch forum about beer brewing) there's a guy called "SiriS" who sells several Lalvin products, including Fermaid K. I don't know if he carries wine yeasts.

Crimson
08-18-2005, 04:22 AM
Thanx, I'll check that out.

Btw, I am to conclude that you are a fellow Dutch mead maker?

Sander
08-18-2005, 05:07 AM
Yep

loetz
01-21-2014, 04:23 PM
Hey, I'm wondering if I can get an update on this question from nearly 10 years ago.

Anyone know of a shop selling fermaid k and diammonium phosphate?

loetz
01-21-2014, 05:18 PM
...additionally, I do have some Young's Yest Nutrient and some Tronozymol from some previous fruitwine experiments. Should I just use those instead? I'm not really sure what they are made of.

GntlKnigt1
01-21-2014, 06:40 PM
You can get DAP at brouwmarkt.nl. they also sell nutrients as "energizer"

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fatbloke
01-22-2014, 03:20 AM
...additionally, I do have some Young's Yest Nutrient and some Tronozymol from some previous fruitwine experiments. Should I just use those instead? I'm not really sure what they are made of.
The youngsters stuff is a good approximation of DAP (its main ingredient though both the listed ingredients are nitrogenous).

The Tronozymol won't be the same "recipe" as FermaidK, but again it's not far off and seems to supply a similar level of non nitrogen elements i.e. thiamine etc, though whether it contains the same level of nitrogen/DAP I don't know, but it seems to do the job in the same way.

If you're gonna use only one then the Tronozymol should be it. If you then want to up the nitrogen provision, use some young as well.

When I don't have FermaidK available I use 2 parts Tronozymol to 1 part Youngs........

loetz
01-25-2014, 02:29 PM
When I don't have FermaidK available I use 2 parts Tronozymol to 1 part Youngs........

Do you stagger these additions?

fatbloke
01-25-2014, 03:14 PM
Do you stagger these additions?
It's easy to work out the required amount if you know how much nitrogen and other non nitrogenous nutrient is supplied.

which is why, if possible, I try to use Fermaid and DAP as that can be weighed out with some degree of accuracy.

There'd be no guarantee of accuracy if you use Tronozymol and Young's nutrient vice FermaidK and DAP, but I'd suspect you wouldn't be a million miles away.

there's an academic paper out there I've read, but haven't got a link or copy that said about using up to 85% of the total nutrient can be front loaded with the last 15% added at the 1/3rd sugar break. Using that as a vague guide, how you'd split up the first amount/85% into more than one single dose would be up to you......

loetz
01-25-2014, 03:35 PM
..which is why, if possible, I try to use Fermaid and DAP as that can be weighed out with some degree of accuracy.


I'd rather stick with the well documented Fermaid and DAP. Where do you get yours?

fatbloke
01-25-2014, 09:30 PM
I'd rather stick with the well documented Fermaid and DAP. Where do you get yours?
So far, mail order from the US (actually there's an ebay seller I've got FermaidK and GoFerm from).

The Youngs yeast nutrient is di-ammonium phosphate and ammonium sulphate, so both sources of nitrogen - and considerably less hassle than finding pure di-ammonium phosphate. Likely providing the same 200 ppm per gramme per litre nitrogen.

You're reason for wanting to stick to the Fermaid is pretty much why I source it i.e. it's well documented with known provision. Actually that's why I stick mainly to Lallemand products, just that it can be hard work getting anything that's not packaged and aimed at the home brew market.

I'm thinking of contacting the Lallemand office in France, as they're the nearest to me. Your local contact is likely to be


LALLEMAND Specialties GesmbH. Triesterstraße 4a
2353 Guntramsdorf
Austria
Tel : 02236 506 299 - Fax : Fax : 02236 506 299 17
e-mail: weintechnologie@lallemand.com
www.weintechnologie.at

Though whether they have a minimum quantity for selling or at least a local distribution company (last time I was looking at the France office, FermaidK came in 2.5kg packs and I understand that the minimum was 10kg - don't know for certain as I didn't ask, just what I could work out from the website)........

MourneMead
01-26-2014, 05:44 AM
The brouwmarkt catalog is rather mouthwatering. Transport or postage is likely an issue - but as least the stuff is obtainable.

For UK readers as a small item of interest - Poundland are doing large bags of glass marbles for ... well ... a pound at the moment. I got some for topping up demijons to minimize the air.

MM

fatbloke
01-26-2014, 06:04 AM
The brouwmarkt catalog is rather mouthwatering. Transport or postage is likely an issue - but as least the stuff is obtainable.

For UK readers as a small item of interest - Poundland are doing large bags of glass marbles for ... well ... a pound at the moment. I got some for topping up demijons to minimize the air.

MM
From what I understand from what Doug (GntlKnigt1) has posted previously, the brouwmarkt
site sells the stuff wholesaled by brouwland (in Belgium). This certainly seems to be the case for the stuff listed on the Brupak website, though they in turn distribute to UK hbs. So in
theory, if your nearest hbs has anything off the brupak site they should be able to get anything from the brouwland range....... Though I'd suspect you'd get nonsense about special orders etc.....

If you like the listing on brouwmarkt, spend a month or so slavering over the brouwland site..... They really do seem to be an "Alladins cave" for home brewing.......

GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 07:23 AM
AB Vickers in UK was acquired by Lallemand but can't get the web site to give retail info on products

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GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 08:14 AM
Hmm....the vin-o-ferm trademark is owned by a Swiss company. http://www.trademarkia.com/vinoferm-79041325.html


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GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 08:30 AM
Another hmmm.... I think vinoferm tannoblanc is Scott labs FT Blanc tannin that is recommended for fermenting meads. http://brouwland.com/setframes/?l=&to=http%3A//brouwland.com/shop/product.asp%3Fcfid%3D28%26id%3D122%26xin%3D1%26src %3Dtannin%26dt%3D24&shwlnk=0

http://www.scottlab.com/product-122.aspx


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loetz
01-26-2014, 08:40 AM
As a homebrewer, I'm pretty well acquainted with the b land site and their great selection.
I checked out the brouwmarkt page and didn't see any go ferm or fermaid. Maybe I need to order from America... Do you use morewine? I might also be in the market for a lees stirrer.

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GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 09:00 AM
Only when I am planning to go to Chicago. Mannye once offered to be a conduit for people. Morewine will not ship internationally. For what its worth, I've not had issues with the European DAP and nutrients.

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loetz
01-26-2014, 09:58 AM
Chicago... I have a friend visiting family in south bend in a couple weeks and she offered to bring back a few things for me. What is the legality of transporting yeast? I would do it if it was just me but I don't want to put her in an uncomfortable position.

GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 10:18 AM
I don't think it is prohibited... or regulated. Maybe just put it in your checked baggage, and I suspect there wouldn't be any problem.... Of course, I wouldn't know personally.....

Have relative at Notre Dame?? http://www.nd.edu/

fatbloke
01-26-2014, 11:19 AM
Only when I am planning to go to Chicago. Mannye once offered to be a conduit for people. Morewine will not ship internationally. For what its worth, I've not had issues with the European DAP and nutrients.

Hum ? I think you might be mixing up Morewine with Midwest Doug......

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?partnerid=gplp0&pid=5973221571754163618&oid=102827037229498519256

I know that Midwest are a PITA about international sales/shipping.

As for AB Vickers, their website doesn't seem to list any wine supplies, either under their name or Lallemand, just beer stuff..... Not sure whether they'd even respond as to whether they know of any other supplier of Lallemand stuff in the UK, might email them to see......
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?partnerid=gplp0&pid=5973221571754163618&oid=102827037229498519256

GntlKnigt1
01-26-2014, 11:58 AM
Yeast is in vacuum packed, sealed packages.... not exactly a threat... And yeah FB, see that caution on the precious D21 that says to use in 6 months? That's why I use only a teaspoon in a starter, and was thrilled to learn you could freeze it, which I have done with the unopened (and opened) packages...

...and yeah, pity about AB Vickers.... we mead makers could use their presence...

loetz
01-27-2014, 02:44 PM
Hum ? I think you might be mixing up Morewine with Midwest Doug......


I just checked into it and morewine will ship internationally, but the rate starts at $44. Even if it is just one packet of yeast!

GntlKnigt1
01-27-2014, 04:40 PM
Talm to Mannye....

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fatbloke
01-28-2014, 12:31 AM
I just checked into it and morewine will ship internationally, but the rate starts at $44. Even if it is just one packet of yeast!
It used to be that you couldn't get an accurate shipping quote because their dumb website would only list FedEx and UPS (thieving scum IMO), but if you're not in a rush and mail to ask first I understand they will also ship via USPS - not the quickest but a lot cheaper. I got a gallon of honey from Oklahoma and the shipping was "only" 70$, not bad for what ? 4 kg ? Something like that.......

mannye
01-28-2014, 12:53 AM
I'm sending some mead to kudupcat and sneaking in a bag of FermK in the box. Let's see what happens.

fatbloke
01-28-2014, 02:25 AM
I'm sending some mead to kudupcat and sneaking in a bag of FermK in the box. Let's see what happens.
You'd better hope that there's no smell similarity between FermaidK and the more nefarious mystery powders......... I'd be able to hear the click of the handcuffs :D

MourneMead
01-28-2014, 04:35 AM
$70 is still £40 though, which is quite a lot. Sources of large volumes of reasonably priced honey are even more difficult here where transportation tends to be two trips over water - if the source is Europe.

Local bee keepers aren't shy at asking for a good price either...

mannye
01-28-2014, 10:34 AM
You'd better hope that there's no smell similarity between FermaidK and the more nefarious mystery powders......... I'd be able to hear the click of the handcuffs :D

Ha! If I tell you it doesn't, it would implicate me, so I'll just say I hope not. ;)

loetz
02-03-2014, 01:55 PM
Well, I guess I won't be ordering from The Home Brew Shop UK anymore. They changed their policy and now they won't ship any more than 1kg a time to continental Europe. On top of that, they're using an expensive shipping service which costs 15 pounds for 0-1kg of weight. I emailed them to ask if they could put a few yeast packs in an envelope and they said no in a fairly unfriendly manor.

I imagine that this change comes from their inability to pack a box. I ordered something from them once before and it had zero insulation. In fact, they put a big thing of iodophor right on top and it got smashed and opened up all over everything. When I emailed them about it, they were quite unfriendly. Since they've changed their policy, I imagine they've had problems when shipping to other customers.

Oh well, I like the service I get from hop & grape. I'll just have to keep using them.

GntlKnigt1
02-03-2014, 02:03 PM
Oh well, I like the service I get from hop & grape. I'll just have to keep using them.

You have a link for hop & grape?

loetz
02-03-2014, 02:18 PM
http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/catalog.asp?catid=WIN2147552

I've had super friendly and professional service from these guys.

loetz
02-04-2014, 04:56 AM
I messaged Mel over at Hop and Grape (www.hopandgrape.co.uk/‎) and she is willing to stock Fermaid and GoFerm for us if we really want it.

Plus, she will mail yeast in an envelope!

GntlKnigt1
02-04-2014, 05:18 AM
Nice! Well done!

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mannye
02-04-2014, 11:48 AM
I'm always willing to help out if things get difficult. So just let me know!


Sent from my galafreyan transdimensional communicator 100 years from now. G

fatbloke
02-04-2014, 04:30 PM
I messaged Mel over at Hop and Grape (www.hopandgrape.co.uk/‎) and she is willing to stock Fermaid and GoFerm for us if we really want it.

Plus, she will mail yeast in an envelope!
Be very handy if tbey did keep it. Pretty sure that once the word got round they'd sell enough.

Hell if I knew where to get a bulk bag, I'd happily stick it in the post for cost.....

mannye
02-04-2014, 05:31 PM
Be very handy if tbey did keep it. Pretty sure that once the word got round they'd sell enough.

Hell if I knew where to get a bulk bag, I'd happily stick it in the post for cost.....

I'll send an email to Lalvin, makers of Fermaid K (and the other letters) and see if there isn't a local distributor that might want to sell me a multi-kilo bag of the stuff.

Might not be cheap for one person, but if three or four or more of you got together it might make it worthwhile. I'm more than happy to do the legwork/packing if you guys pay the freight.

I bet just a pound of that stuff will go a long way. I buy it in 80 gram bags and it lasts a while. 28x16 (assuming 28 grams to an ounce) ::pauses to let the Miami Vice jokes come and go...:: 448ish grams should be enough for a whole lot of mead for 5 or 6 blokes. Yeah?

GntlKnigt1
02-04-2014, 05:59 PM
Potassium sorbate and potassium carbonate would be good....can't find that at all over here

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

fatbloke
02-05-2014, 12:19 AM
Potassium sorbate and potassium carbonate would be good....can't find that at all over here.
hum ? Maybe not as big white bags of dust but wine stabiliser is curious little extruded granules of potassium sorbate and "acid reducing solution" happens to contain potassium carbonate.......

GntlKnigt1
02-05-2014, 04:22 AM
The stabilizer I have seen is usually calcium sorbate or unlabeled, and same for the carbonate.... either calcium, sodium or unlabeled.

GntlKnigt1
02-07-2014, 10:15 AM
The stuff i got yesterday at Brouwmarkt is their blend of potassium sorbate, lemon acid, and potassium metabisulfite. I tried it on my speculaas batch. Will see how it works out

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

antonioh
02-07-2014, 01:06 PM
I don´t know how it goes there but here, some things I can get them in chemists.

GntlKnigt1
02-07-2014, 02:38 PM
If this actually does a good job of stabilizing, it might even be more convenient than individual sorbate and sulfite. Will see how it goes.

Sent from Arthur Dent's towel smothering a volume of Vogon poetry, some of which just leaked out.

GntlKnigt1
02-13-2014, 11:59 AM
How's this for a catalog of stuff? (Scroll down for the wine additives section)

http://www.ldcarlson.com/public%20catalog/Chapter%2007.htm

A carbonic acid extractor? That removes carbon dioxide and adds years of smoothness in seconds? What is that?
http://www.ldcarlson.com/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E5MGO6S/ref=cm_cr_dpvoterdr?ie=UTF8&thanksvoting=cr-vote-R1G0GGMRBFHZT9#R1G0GGMRBFHZT9.2115.Helpful.Reviews

loetz
02-13-2014, 12:09 PM
So while I wait for fermaid to be available in Europe, I suppose I'll use my Tronozymol and Youngs Nutrient. Can anyone help me plan out how to stagger nutrients with these two things? I plan to make a 5gal batch of medium-sweet traditional mead with my orange honey. I'll use 6.25kg of honey and Lalvin 71b-1122. I'm not sure what gravity that will give me.

I should boil the water and let it cool first, right? And drop a campden tablet in it?

GntlKnigt1
02-13-2014, 12:51 PM
Pasteurizing by boiling and sterilizing by campden rather duplicates, but doesn't hurt. Since I don't know the formulations on those nutrients, I won't comment other than to advise to follow manufacturers instructions.

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

loetz
02-13-2014, 02:01 PM
The youngs stuff says 1tsp per gallon.

Tonozymol says 1-2 tsp per 4.5l for dry wine. 2-3 for sweet wine. 4-5 for strong wine.

I'm wondering how I should stagger these two things?

GntlKnigt1
02-13-2014, 02:37 PM
Why do you want to SNA it? What are you making?

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

loetz
02-13-2014, 06:37 PM
Why do you want to SNA it? What are you making?


http://wine.lallemandyeast.com/articles/timing-mead-nutrients

5 gal of traditional medium sweet mead with 6.25kg of orange honey.

GntlKnigt1
02-14-2014, 03:55 AM
Ahh yes... I am aware of the cell wall thing, but find it easier and just as successful to front end load the nutrients and let the yeasties have a field day. The exception to my general rule is when doing a high SG must, wnen I will do an SNA. Otherwise, I find it is too easy to miss adding the appropriate amount at the appropriate time and run the risk of starving the yeast, with the resultant complications and odors.

In short, I have never had a problem front loading the nutrients. But, I usually say, follow manufacturers instruction, but you raise an interesting point. The yeast manufacturer and the nutrient instructions are not consistent. An interesting dilemma.

loetz
02-22-2014, 11:25 AM
I emailed the tronozymol guys and was surprised to get a reply from someone with the last name Ritchie. His signature read that he was something like the 'product developer'... But sadly he rejected my request for information. I then asked if I could at least know about the yan, but I never got a reply. I suppose that its possible that their manufacturing process isn't consistent enough to guarantee a consistent product...

GntlKnigt1
02-22-2014, 12:01 PM
Wow! Am surprised at that. Seems to imply that it was a conscious decision not to publish the info rather than an oversight or neglect. Disappointing. Copy your comment to the Hive, Customer Service section.....

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

McJeff
02-22-2014, 12:06 PM
well i didnt read the other 2 pages. Ive recently changed my practice from using DAP to Fermaid K. Had some side by side testing with a traditional fermented in a controlled situation using exactly everything the same except one used Fermaid K and the other DAP. To me it noticable better taste with Fermaid K.

GntlKnigt1
02-22-2014, 12:41 PM
well i didnt read the other 2 pages. Ive recently changed my practice from using DAP to Fermaid K. Had some side by side testing with a traditional fermented in a controlled situation using exactly everything the same except one used Fermaid K and the other DAP. To me it noticable better taste with Fermaid K.

Did you have a control, with no nutrients?

McJeff
02-22-2014, 12:45 PM
Did you have a control, with no nutrients?

No :(

The tasting i did was at the Mead Conference at UC Davis.

GntlKnigt1
02-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Hmm....would be interesting to replicate that.....with a control this time.

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.

McJeff
02-22-2014, 02:01 PM
Hmm....would be interesting to replicate that.....with a control this time.

Sent from the Nexus of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which has been infected with Vogon poetry, some of which leaked out here.


No one had a clear answer, but speculated that the honey was nutrient poor and the Fermaid K filled in the holes better than just DAP.

Either way for me the slight amount more ill pay for Fermaid K will def be worth it imo.

fatbloke
02-22-2014, 06:51 PM
well i didnt read the other 2 pages. Ive recently changed my practice from using DAP to Fermaid K. Had some side by side testing with a traditional fermented in a controlled situation using exactly everything the same except one used Fermaid K and the other DAP. To me it noticable better taste with Fermaid K.
Which is basically why I consider those who like using a mix of FermaidK and DAP in the ratio of 1 FermaidK to 2 DAP on a fools errand.

Having read Kens article (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1256/NDzym05_MasterMead.pdf), nitrogen is important, but equally, so are the non-nitrogen elements. So I like to do 2 parts FermaidK to 1 part DAP, that way it seem that there's enough non-nitrogen elements while the nitrogen is getting boosted some.

GntlKnigt1
03-23-2014, 12:15 PM
And the Davis short course decided taste was better with no DAP

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Stasis
04-02-2014, 06:34 PM
I've used www.discountbrew.co.uk for my latest 2 orders. The prices are LOW. I haven't seen cheaper prices anywhere on the net. The 1st shipment I received had all items with good expiry dates and viable yeast so this is not old stock or something.
The only caveat is that communication will be very limited and responses are slow. My 2nd shipment took a week to be dispatched. This is all explained at the bottom of their home page. All this is ok for me since I am in no hurry for my stuff. In fact this 2nd shipment can take up to another month to arrive without me minding at all (given that it DOES finally arrive).
So with some warning I tell you of this online shop. If you are to buy stuff, monitor your order for updates as things might not be so straight forward, as like what happened in my first shipment

Stasis
04-20-2014, 09:24 AM
I have since changed my opinion of discountbrew.com. For some details of this shadiness I will post a link to another thread I started which regards this site and another site goodlifehomebrew.com:
http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/22994-Goodlife-Homebrew-How-rude!

loetz
04-25-2014, 11:15 AM
Good news, everyone! I got this in my facebook inbox today from Mel at Hop and Grape:

"Hi. We do have some Fermaid K in stock now. It is available in 8g sachets at £0.95 each. The instructions advise to use approx. 1 gram per gallon of must. We also have some 10g sachets of Go-Ferm Protect at £1.25 each and the instructions advise to use 1.25g per gram of yeast. We'll get it on the website next week or you can drop me an email if you want to order any. Regards - Mel"

Keep an eye on www.hopandgrape.co.uk next week if you are in Europe and looking to buy nutrients. It is also worth noting that, in the past, she has mailed yeast packets to me in envelopes in order to save on shipping to the continent. I imagine she wouldn't have a problem doing this with the nutrients as well.

Now for my next big question:
What do I use instead of KMeta and KSorbate for stabilizers?
I'm guessing I should go with their Potassium Sorbate and Campden Powder?

kalvaer
09-16-2015, 05:01 PM
Sorry for reviving an old thread

Based on the previous posts and information. Can I ask if anyone has any recommendation of yeasts to use from brouwland?
ie: https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/yeast
Sure there will be more questions but need to start somewhere.

GntlKnigt1
09-16-2015, 06:21 PM
What do you want to make, kalvaer? Yeasts are usually good for certain kinds of wines, although there are some that have a broad range. Also, temperatures where you ferment matter as well. Give us more detail on what your plans or ideas are, and we will give you some suitable yeasts.

kalvaer
09-17-2015, 04:00 AM
You are right, I guess my question was bit vague.

I see that if one zooms in to the packaging for the vinoferm yeasts, They actually mention the species, so that does help. I cant seem to find more details though for many of the other?
Most of the names/acronyms mentioned here on this site are of course not found there at all, which I guess is expected.
I'm planning on make a table of sorts that I can compare to. ie Lavlin EC-1118 ~> Bioferm Champ and was wondering if anyone had done something similar and could share the info?

For myself :D I am looking at making some dry/carbonated meads.
Doing this in my cellar, I don't expect the temperature to every get above 25˚C, even in the middle of summer. However, in winter it can get well below zero, so I will of course need to heat up and will try to keep it at around 10˚C min.

GntlKnigt1
09-17-2015, 05:17 AM
Most of us use Lalvin dry yeasts, as there is more info about those than other brands. I don't think anyone has done a comparison chart for the other locally available brands. Now that the temp question is largely answered (10 C is 50 F, which is at the very bottom of the range for the most cold tolerant of yeasts), are you making a traditional? Metheglyn? Melomel? If you are a new mead maker, you might want to start out with a JAOM or a BOMM (both of which will need temps above 10 C), esp before trying to tackle a carbonated mead. If you edit your profile, you can include a location too, which might help.

kalvaer
09-17-2015, 08:52 AM
Sorry, I have added the details. I stay in France in the Côtes du Rhône region. This is at least where I will be brewing, Though I work in Genéve in Switzerland.

And yes, I am new to mead, I started making my own ginger beer again this year, based on how my mother made it when I was a kid, doing it directly in bottles, and drinking it in 2-5 days. Of course I started messing around with different flavours, adding herbs and spices, and after one day adding honey as a sweetening agent... well I guess you know... it was all over from there. So I guess you could say I have been making a bastardised form of Metheglin's for a few months.

My wife loves it as well and we couldn't wait every week for next batch to be ready as we only made 2-3 bottles, and this lead me to start doing more research, ending up on mead, and how I finally ended up here.
My first JAOM is already busy bubbling away, and my "wine starter kit" I ordered from brouwland arrived yesterday. Since we both really love the carbonated "ginger beer" I have been making, This is why I mentioned sticking to the carbonated style. Of course, I am pretty sure there will be many more and different types of everything bubbling soon :D Which is of course why I am looking at what yeasts to get and find out what is available so I can decide what I can do.

GntlKnigt1
09-17-2015, 11:53 AM
Well, you certainly are from a wine making region, at least from grapes. Welcome to the mead making addiction, which I call Mazerotic Encephalopathic Affective Disorder (M. E. A. D. ).

For a metheglyn, Oskaar has recommended K1 and D47 in the Patron section, to which I might add BM4x4. If you haven't become a Patron yet, I would urge you to do so and access information there. You can also go to Soundcloud.com and listen to previous broadcasts of GotMead Live, which has a lot of info as well. There is also a NewBee guide on this site which is good for beginners, and a search function that will yield info on carbonation and other issues.

From Brouwland, I have had good luck with https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/yeast/dried-yeast-bioferm/bioferm-killer/d/dried-wine-yeast-bioferm-killer-7gr?gaCategory=search#.Vfrd9t-qqko
although it requires a temp of 15 C or more, so it might not work for your situation.

K1 is available in the UK, and it says it will go down to 10 C, although I cannot verify personally that it will work at that cold a temp.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lalvin-K1V-1116-Wine-Yeast-5g-10-Pack-/361324423026?hash=item54209d2772

D47 is available as a part of a "variety pack" here as well, and I think you can select a 5 pack of D47 there as well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LALVIN-VARIETY-PACK-EC-1118-K1-V1116-RC-212-71B-1122-D-47-Dry-Wine-Yeast-/361084225914?var=&hash=item54124c097a

Be careful with the carbonation in any case. Perhaps some others here have done it and can advise on that, as I make still meads. It can be done, but if you don't do it right, you will blow the cap/corks off (if you're lucky) and lose your mead on the floor. If you're NOT lucky, you can create "bottle bombs" that can shatter the glass bottle when you pick it up.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes....

kalvaer
09-17-2015, 12:48 PM
Somebody today actually asked my why on earth I would be wanting to make wine/mead when I live where I do. I tried to explain to them about "when in Rome" and all that.. but I don't think they got it. I see that the "Bioferm Killer" you mentioned from Brouwland does mention as low as 10˚C. So I guess I'll use that as a starting place for what to play with. I do plan on creating some heating in my cellar just for the mead, so hopefully I can keep it at ~15˚C

I'm also worried about the bottle carb'ing. The first story I remember my father telling me about his brewing days before I was born was of bottles exploding at 2 am in the morning and he thought somebody was shooting at him. This is also part of the reason I started researching more when I started adding honey and I noticed the pressure increasing quiet a lot. I do bottle in fliptops, which I have adjusted so that if the pressure builds up at to ~3bar, it usually self releases. However I know that they could still explode. I have got 3 minikegs which my latest batch of honey ginger beer is in, and I am thinking of filling one with some mead when it is done and trying to kick off a second fermentation in the keg.
I have also heard that champagne bottles can handle around 8bar, and I have been saving some to test.. but still worried about the bottle bombs/grenades.

My Wife has been away at a conference the last week, and I think she is going to think I have turned breaking bad on her when she gets home and see what I am doing in the cellar :D

GntlKnigt1
09-17-2015, 01:47 PM
Lol. Well there are stories here of people with stained ceilings as well as floors, so you and your Dad have lots of company.

mannye
09-20-2015, 11:27 PM
Over carbing can be an adventure but it's also quite dangerous as you already seem to know. But the greatest danger is losing all that wonderful product you worked so hard to make!

If you have mini kegs why not try to find a way to force-carb the wine? It has the advantage of allowing you to make it crystal clear as well.

Once you learn to back-sweeten (after you have stopped the fermentation by filtration or chemical means) you can make sweet fizzy drinks to your heart's content!


Sent from my TARDIS at the restaurant at the end of the universe while eating Phil.

kalvaer
09-21-2015, 07:49 AM
The last 2 x 7l batch that I made, I kegged 10 L in minikegs and then pressurised with CO2. It is surely fizzy and has lots of head, but no where near as bubbly as before.
The rest I bottled in a put in the fridge and cant believe how lovely and clear its gone.. not sure how long it is going to last ;)

I've ordered some different yeasts and I guess I'll start playing around when they arrive.
Has anyone tried any of these nutrients from brouwland? https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/yeast-nutrients in comparison to what everyone mentions here (Which of course I cant find locally yet as well)

MrRogers
09-21-2015, 01:35 PM
The last 2 x 7l batch that I made, I kegged 10 L in minikegs and then pressurised with CO2. It is surely fizzy and has lots of head, but no where near as bubbly as before.
The rest I bottled in a put in the fridge and cant believe how lovely and clear its gone.. not sure how long it is going to last ;)

I've ordered some different yeasts and I guess I'll start playing around when they arrive.
Has anyone tried any of these nutrients from brouwland? https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/yeast-nutrients in comparison to what everyone mentions here (Which of course I cant find locally yet as well)

Nutrisal is basically DAP. Nutrivit is a mix of DAP and other nutrients. I've used them both (either Nutrivit on its own or a combination of the two).

What kind of mini-kegs are you using? Something like this (https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/brewing/beer-kegs-and-accessories/beer-kegs-and-accessories/d/mini-keg-5-l-brewferm-rubber-plug?gaCategory=search#.VgA3xfmqpBc)?
If so, they can't really handle much pressure. They mention in their instructions to use only 1/3 of the sugar used normally for bottling. It's just to fill up the empty space with CO2. In any case, I never managed to get a proper amount of carbonation when serving from these. Most of the times it´s just slightly fizzy and comes with lots of foam on top.

About carbonation, I got my experience from beer brewing, and usually just do the same for mead. You just have to make sure that the mead is completely fermented before bottling. Then I use some software to calculate the amount of sugar to add.
I use Beersmith, which is paid, but there are some calculators online. This one (http://www.yeastcalc.co/priming-sugar-calculator), for instance, gives you the amounts for plenty of different priming sugars, including honey.
I've tried different amounts, to generate between 2 and 3.5 volumes of CO2 (I'm not sure how to convert this to bar). I prefer to use Belgian beer bottles (from Duvel, for instance), which can take that pressure without problems. Occasionally I also use flip-top bottles. Champagne bottles are supposed to handle much more pressure, but I never tried them.
What level of carbonation is best depends on each mead, I suppose. I only tried a few so far.
One thing I recommend, in case you let the mead for a few months (to clear, for instance), is to add a little bit of yeast as well at bottling. I've had a couple of meads I wanted carbonated, but they either stayed still (and slightly sweet, with the added honey), or got carbonated very slowly (several months). Some yeasts flocculate quicker than others, so the amount of time this takes varies from yeast to yeast.

kalvaer
09-25-2015, 04:40 PM
Nutrisal is basically DAP. Nutrivit is a mix of DAP and other nutrients. I've used them both (either Nutrivit on its own or a combination of the two).

I've ordered some of the various options available in small batches based on what you have said.. and I guess I'll have some time to play around.

The mini-kegs you mention are exactly what I have. Its kinda cool for a party.. but no where near as what I got in fliptop/champagne style bottles. Its still nice and quick though.

I've been looking into the trial usage of beersmith this week, and while not completely geared for mead, it really is pretty nice.
Especially after I wasted a couple of hours trying to find out why my latest ginger beer (or is it a mead if it is >50% honey vs sugar?) was so much higher in its OG. Turned out my calculations from Imperial to metric were not as good as I thought. Beersmith at least got it much closer than I was guessing and will be trying it again this weekend for me next batch... If I can decide where to start.

fatbloke
09-27-2015, 01:24 PM
Ha ha! some excellent posts worth reading since the thread was revived. Carbonation is likely to be a bit strange anyway. If I make the "internet recipe" of ginger beer that's done in 2 litre pop/soda bottles, you leave it somewhere warm, then once you can't depress the plastic of the bottle, you get it into the fridge a bit sharpish. I've seen a local vineyard that does the modern version of "methode champenoise" in their sparkling whites, but equally it seems that if you're doing forced carbonation, you need to get the pressure levels up quite high, but also need the batch (likely in a corny keg or similar) to be quite cold as more gas stays in solution in chilled booze (think of the difference when opening a champagne or sparkling wine that is room temp, as opposed to chilled).

Plus, it needs to be agitated. Something about the liquid/gas interface which is where the carbonation happens. I don't know about commercial operations etc, just what I've read from those who've tried......

kalvaer
09-28-2015, 03:27 AM
I made up another 11L batch of ginger beer last week Wednesday, and wanted to try make it as simple as possible. As in 10L of water, and 2 of everything else. Though I messed up in my conversions from pounds -> kg and gallons -> litres somewhere. I planned to start with an OG of around 1115, but I ended up with a ridiculously high OG of 1150. I'll have to measure the sugar contents of my honey and sugar myself instead of using averages on the net.. and convert better.

I brought it out of the basement and into a nice 22˚C room, and it has been bubbling slowly. On Saturday my order of "goodies" arrived and I added 3g of Nutrivit, along with more ginger to the carboy, as all I could taste was honey. All I can say is HOLY ****, The airlock sounds like an automatic machine gun going off and the grated ginger is spinning around like its in a blender. Bottling this now would explode in minutes. Never would of guessed that just a small amount of nutrients could make sure a massive difference.

I just hope this batch slows down soon so I can bottle, as I have nothing left to drink at home.

Stasis
01-12-2016, 10:48 AM
As JDWebb would say:
"I have just struck the MOTHERLOAD"
Check out www.Baldinger.biz they carry the widest assortment of Lallemand products I have ever seen online. There are some products I didn't even know existed such as Fermaid E Blanc (better than fermaid k?) and Go Ferm Protect Evolution (Better than plain old Go ferm protect I guess?) Their shop is based in Switzerland. Their prices are VERY cheap, the cheapest prices I ever saw in fact. The only catch is that many items must be bought in bulk i.e 1kg minimum. But then again, this is hardly a catch since if you cannot use 1kg of fermaid O in 2.5 years (the time until expiration), you should probably consider stepping up your meading practices ;)
Staff also seem very helpful because I sent an email asking about shipping prices and a nice lady decided to include expiration dates of her own accord, together with a detailed break down of prices vs weight up to 10kg! Here is a copy of the reply I received:

"Hello

Thank you for your interest in our products.

Firstly I've checked the expiration date of the products fyi:

Fermaid O: summer 2018
Go Ferm protect: summer 2019
It's possible to use the products after expiration date but without a
garantee from the producer (provided that the storage is as it should be
- cold and dry, product sous vide).

Delivery costs to Malta:

0.3 kg (net) - 0.5 kg (brut): CHF 18.-
0.8 kg (net) - 1 kg (brut): CHF 23.-
1.5 kg (net) - 2 kg (brut): CHF 40.-
(2.5 kg (net) - 3 kg (brut): CHF 65.-)
4.5 kg (net) - 5 kg (brut): CHF 65.-
9.5 kg (net) - 10 kg (brut): CHF 80.-

(brut): weight with packaging

Don't hesitate to contact us in case of questions!

Kind regards

Eveline Stierli"

EDIT: Could this possibly be any better? Well it seems there is also a 10% discount for orders placed online :o
After YEARS of overpriced products and limited availability I feel I have truly found the MOTHERLOAD www.Baldinger.biz

GntlKnigt1
01-26-2016, 03:05 AM
Have you bought from there yet ? How was the service? Currency conversion?

Stasis
01-26-2016, 03:39 AM
I bought from them and they shipped my stuff last thursday. According to the tracking number they provided me my stuff has arrived in Malta and is getting sorted out.
Currency conversion was spot on except for a few cents over a Eur188 total. Of course I didn't even mention this small amount. Service was a bit slow... it seems like the site is not automatically connected to their payment and shipping system. So
1. I bought my stuff
2. They sent an email asking what shipping method I want
3. I confirmed shipping and informed them 2.5 Fermaid O is not 2.5x2.5kg= 7.5kg total, but the amount 2.5 means only 1 bag of 2.5kgs fermaid O
4. They fixed stuff and sent invoice.
5. I informed them there was an error on the invoice...
6. They fixed and re-sent invoice
7. I paid amount through internet banking using IBAN and SWIFT. No paypal option since this is a business used to larger payments
8. Three days later the payment got cleared by their accountants and they shipped my stuff.
9. A day later I was unaware whether or not they shipped the stuff and sent an email.
10. They sent email with my tracking number. I wonder if they were about to send it or if they forgot

Having said that, the person I was dealing with was VERY polite. She said sorry and thank you every time something went wrong. It does seem she was doing her best effort, it's just that the system isn't streamlined.
The person I was talking to was Eveline Stierli. If you need something and you don't get a reply in a few days shoot her an email. Rather than using the email on the site, replace 'info' from the first part before the @ and write 'eveline.stierli' instead. Didn't write the whole email since I don't know how many bots lurk on these forums.

I would certainly buy from that site again. Just don't buy if you're in a terrible hurry. Hopefully packaging shouldn't be a problem since the stuff is quite unbreakable

Stasis
01-26-2016, 07:59 AM
Came home this afternoon and found the package waiting for me. Plenty of tape securing it all around and plenty of peanuts inside. Not that I was afraid for its safety. Fermaid O and Go Ferm in Malta at last :O

1727

GntlKnigt1
01-26-2016, 02:30 PM
Cool! Happy fermenting, my friend.

Stasis
02-11-2017, 08:04 AM
I've got another potential lead. This company supplies Lallemand products and has Nutrient Vit Nature which I think is what they used to call Fermaid O. At least their descriptions are very similar
http://www.litmuswines.com/lallemand
There are bunch of companies which are listed in the lallemand website. All you have to do is go here
http://www.lallemandwine.com
Then change your country or region o whichever you want. Then go to contacts -> Distributors. There should be a list of distributors.

Unfortunately, most distributors do not have a website but just a phone or email so there's no telling if the have Fermaid O/k or go ferm and the price and whether or not they ship to your place. My first link seemed like the most promising and it is from a distributor in the UK, which is a country many forum members seem to be from. If you are not happy with baldinger (perhaps it is not within the EU and your country will heavily tax you, or perhaps shipping is prohibitive) then you might want to try contacting these other people.
About Baldinger and Shipping: Yes, shipping might be expensive if you intend to buy just 1kg of fermaid O, but if you plan ahead and buy several items such as yeast, GoFerm, oak, Filtration pads... anything you can't find in your country, then perhaps it might still be worth it since shipping prices do not scale up exactly with weight.