Barnyard braggot

WikdWaze · Aug 6, 2004

Tell me if this sounds potable

12# Buckwheat honey
2# American Red malt extract (from Williams Brewing)
1# Crystal 80L malt
.5# Flaked rye
EC-1118 yeast

I went with the buckwheat honey because I apparently have some sort of fetish for it. The malts were chosen mainly for their color and added body. The rye is just to provide a contrast to the residual sweetness. I chose the yeast based on what I've read about the effects of various yeasts on the taste of the finished mead. I may increase the malts a bit to get a higher SG for a sweeter mead, and I'm not entirely sure how much rye would be sufficient.

A special thanks to Joe for inspiring the name.

Jmattioli · Aug 6, 2004

Good name for it--- Sounds like a real man's drink.
Interesting ingredients! However, there will be no residual sweetness if you are making 5 (my guess since you didn't specify) gallons with EC-1118 and that recipe unless you stop it prematurally. The alcohol tolerance is 18% or better with that yeast and because of its attenuation it is not known for leaving any significant residual sweetness. Of course, you could keep feeding it honey til it quits and then add more but what you will have will surely knock a man out after just a few drinks. In fact, I doubt he will notice the barnyard smell after the first glass.
Joe

WikdWaze · Aug 7, 2004

In other words I need to increase the honey and maybe the malts to ensure that the yeast can't convert it all. I may stop it early anyhow, not sure if I want that much alcohol. I selected that yeast because it supposedly doesn't alter the taste much and clears well. Then again, alcohol is at least part of the point. Otherwise we'd forget all the hassles of fermenting and racking and aging and just drink the fresh must.

Good name for it--- Sounds like a real man's drink.

8) Exactly what I'm shooting for. I know there are no historical records of actual recipes, but I want a drink that tastes like something the Vikings would have drank. Guess I haven't outgrown the whole machismo thing yet.

Oskaar · Aug 7, 2004

Ummm,

Mayhap you could use a yeast like the Lalvin D-47 (Alc. Tol. 12-15%) with a lower alcohol tolerance so you won't have to keep feeding it honey?

Or, maybe use the K1-1116 (Alc. Tol. 18%) which will leave some residual sweetness if you want just a little but with a good alcohol kick to it!

Hope that makes sense.

Oskaar

Derf · Aug 7, 2004

If you do feed it untill it reaches its alcohol tolerance (or stabilize at a lower percent) you would have to force carbonate or be stuck with flat braggot. Sweet and flat at 18% doesn't seem very beery, if that's what you're aiming for.

I would research some ale yeasts with high alcohol tolerances if I were you. They don't process all the different sugars as efficiently so they ferment some giving you plenty of alcohol and CO2 while leaving others behind for sweetness. That's my very un-technical understanding of them anyway.

I'm very interested in hearing how your braggot turns out. I haven't got around to putting a recipe together yet, but a braggot will be one of my next projects. If I can get my hands on a package--yeast selection can be somewhat limited at my otherwise prefered LHBS--I think I will use a Trappist high gravity yeast from Wyeast. Mostly, the choice is a nod to some of my favourite Belgian beer styles, but the discription sounds like it's a good pick for this sort of experiment. "This type of yeast benefits from incremental feeding of sugars during fermentation, making suitable conditions for doubles and triples, to frement to dryness with good alcohol tolerance approximately 11-12% ABV"

Derf · Aug 7, 2004

Oh, I think a few of us were writing at the same time.

Anyway, if you want a yeast that doesn't add any flavour of its own, then you certainly wouldn't want to try my Trappist idea.

WikdWaze · Aug 7, 2004

Seems I need to research the yeast a bit more. I had thought the EC-1118 would handle the carbonation since they say it's good for stuck fermentations. I'm not too stubborn about the alcohol. I could happily use a lower-yielding yeast. At the same time I don't want it to drop too low, that'd make it just a strong beer. I think 12-15% would make me perfectly happy.

Ummm,

Mayhap you could use a yeast like the Lalvin D-47 (Alc. Tol. 12-15%) with a lower alcohol tolerance so you won't have to keep feeding it honey?

Sounds worthy of a closer look anyhow.

If you do feed it untill it reaches its alcohol tolerance (or stabilize at a lower percent) you would have to force carbonate or be stuck with flat braggot. Sweet and flat at 18% doesn't seem very beery, if that's what you're aiming for

Force carbonation is cheating and a still mead is NOT an option. I'm not really after "beery", but I understand what you mean. I want a drink that doesn't really taste like anything else out there. A braggot seems to fit the bill quite nicely since it doesn't have enough malt to really taste like a beer and it certainly won't taste like any wine.

Anyway, if you want a yeast that doesn't add any flavour of its own, then you certainly wouldn't want to try my Trappist idea

It's not that I don't want the yeast to contribute to the flavor, I'm just trying to minimize the variables. That's why I picked the malts I listed, they are supposed to be mildly flavored and produce the reddish color I want. The honey should be the main flavor, which is why I picked the most potent varietal. The flake rye is just to provide a slight spice/bitterness to counter the sweetness of the honey and help hide the alcohol. If I were to use a yeast that added flavor I may not be able to decipher which ingredients needed adjustment if the batch came out "wrong".

I know this is a bit of an ambitious recipe for my first mead, but there is a method to my madness. I had considered doing just a straight mead first, even came close to buying a 5# jar of clover honey at Sam's Club, but logic got the better of me fortunately. The way I see it, trying a straight mead to "see if I like it" would be exactly the same as trying a Bud Light to see if I like beer. It's not that there's anything wrong with a straight mead, it's just not the taste I'm after.

Please, feel free to offer guidance on my recipe. Y'all have the experience, you know what different yeasts do and how some ingredients interact. Just don't try and talk me out of the buckwheat honey, it ain't gonna work ;D

Oskaar · Aug 7, 2004

Ya know,

You may want to try and find some alfalfa honey or steep some alfalfa to add to your braggot. You're going for a barnyard kinda feel, maybe the alfalfa would be a good compliment to the buckwheat. I used to drink alfalfa tea and always enjoyed it, and when I go hunting, the freshly cut alfalfa fields smell wonderful.

Anyhow, hope that is helpful.

Oskaar

WikdWaze · Aug 7, 2004

Hmmmmm, alfalfa and buckwheat. If it gets any more barnyard than that I'll have to put on my coveralls to drink it.

More research has led me to consider the K1V-1116 and WLP720 yeasts. The White Labs yeast tops out at about 14% alcohol IIRC. Now I'm also thinking about malolactic fermentation. I'm not sure if mead has enough malic acid in it for MLF to make any real difference. Anybody know the acid profile of mead?

Jmattioli · Aug 7, 2004

WikdWaze said:
(snip)More research has led me to consider the K1V-1116 and WLP720 yeasts. The White Labs yeast tops out at about 14% alcohol IIRC. Now I'm also thinking about malolactic fermentation. I'm not sure if mead has enough malic acid in it for MLF to make any real difference. Anybody know the acid profile of mead?

Malic acid is negilible in honey but common in grapes, it is added as an additive for taste in mead. Its roughness/harshness is not a problem with mead except where lots of fruits and some vegetables are used. It is present in citrus fruits and in apples. It is commonly found in your acid blend or can be added as a separate additive. Most meadmakers do not MLF. The only reason I was concerned with it is because I use so much malic acid in my English mead for effect and want to limit the aging time and the harshness of the acid .
Joe

WikdWaze · Aug 7, 2004

Guess I can cross MLF off my list then.

In related news, it won't be much longer before I get started. Mrs. Wikd discovered we already have a 1-gallon jug so it looks like I'll be starting with a 1-gallon batch. I need to hit the flea markets and see if I can find another gallon jug. While the smaller batch is certainly more economical, I do have some concerns. A small mistake in the ingredients shows a lot more in a small batch. Suppose I'll just have to be extra careful with the measurements. I am excited that I won't have to wait as long to start though. Hopefully by this time next week I'll at least have the ingredients and supplies ordered.

Jmattioli · Aug 7, 2004

Good idea going with the 1 gallon. It would be a shame if you did 5 gallons and something went wrong and you were disappointed in your first mead and had to pour it out. Most mistakes are made in the first couple batches so 1 gal will be a good test of what you learned. Its a lot more trouble with 1 gallon batches but its much safer for experimentation and when you get it like you want you can make an Oskaar batch. ;D
Joe

WikdWaze · Aug 8, 2004

Jmattioli said:
Good idea going with the 1 gallon. It would be a shame if you did 5 gallons and something went wrong and you were disappointed in your first mead and had to pour it out. Most mistakes are made in the first couple batches so 1 gal will be a good test of what you learned. Its a lot more trouble with 1 gallon batches but its much safer for experimentation and when you get it like you want you can make an Oskaar batch. ;D
Joe

Yeah, I had considered Mrs. Wikd's reaction to pouring some $60 worth of ingredients down the drain if it didn't come out right.

The biggest concern I have with the small batch is the amount of rye. I love rye bread so I know how potent rye can be. With a 1-gallon batch I'm only going to need about 2 oz. of rye. There's not a lot of room for error there. And with such a strong honey it won't be hard to use too much and wind up too sweet.

Actually, I was hoping that since I posted the recipe Oskaar would make it up first and tell me what was wrong with it. ;D

Oskaar · Aug 8, 2004

Jmattioli said:
snip . . . Its a lot more trouble with 1 gallon batches but its much safer for experimentation and when you get it like you want you can make an Oskaar batch. ;D
Joe

Hey!?

I resemble that remark! :

WikdWaze · Aug 8, 2004

What's your normal batch size, Oskaar?

Oskaar · Aug 8, 2004

I normally make a 15-20 gallon batch, but the last one was a 45 gallon batch because a bunch of my family and friends asked for it. Some even went so far as to pitch in to buy honey and help me with the maual labor tasks (cleaning, sterilization, etc.)

Whenever I get help I make a larger batch and then once it's kegged or bottled we take it out to my family and friends houses and "Laizzes les bonne temps roulez!" Most of us have either converted refrigerators with taps or the smaller keg tappers in the garages. In October we have a chili cookoff with a lot of family and friends, and a LOT of mead disappears at that event. LOL

I actually made a mead with poblano, chilhuacle rojo and pasada chiles which are all very low on the spiciness scale, but all impart wonderful hints of citrus, nuttiness, apple, licorice, fig and cherry flavors, and fit in very well with the chili we all bring to the cookoff. It was medium to medium-high on the sweetness scale, and I did carbonate it. It actually went very well with the chile and the sweetness really helped to knock down the chilis that were extremely spicy.

I have a three vessel stainless brewing system that I used for all grain brewing before I really switched over to mead several years ago. Each of the vessels is 20 gallons and I have three burners so I state my maximum yield as 45 gallons in one three vessel orgy of brewing.

I suppose I could go higher, but I prefer to have some working room at the top of each vessel. Each has a thermometer, a drain stem and shutoff valve and a lid. I have a copper counterflow chiller (which I love) that I hook up when it's time to decant into the fermenters. My dad and I made some little rolling platforms for the fermentation vessels so I can roll them to one side of the brewhouse and out of the way. I really like having those little rollers because it makes moving those heavy buckets around very easy.

Ooops,

Went off on a tangent!

Oskaar

WikdWaze · Aug 9, 2004

Oskaar said:
Ooops,

Went off on a tangent!

Oskaar

No need to apologize for that, lots of useful information in that post! I am slightly confused about one detail. You say you transfer into the fermenters, why? If everything is already mixed in the 3 stainless vats, why do you need to move it to something else to ferment? And what do you ferment in? Carboys? That seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through and I can't figure out why you would want to do it that way instead of just fermenting in the vats.

Derf · Aug 9, 2004

Man, you need a sealed environment to keep your meed safe from contaminants and oxidization. I hope you weren't planning on leaving your mead open to the air untill it was done fermenting.

WikdWaze · Aug 9, 2004

Don't the vats have lids?

Oskaar · Aug 9, 2004

The stainless steel brewing vessels I own are for brewing and the lids do not seal.

I also want my mead to ferment in smaller lots so they are easier to move, adjust, test for pH, check gravity etc.

If I want to "tweak" my meads (add honey, fruit, spices, other stuff) I can do so more effectively in smaller lots which in my experience lends to better quality control and consistency.

It's much easier wrangle the 5, 7.5 or 8 gallon plastic buckets than it is to move a 20 gallon brewkettle. My brewkettles also sit on top of 250,000 btu natural gas burners. I wouldn't want to try and move 135 pounds of liquid around when it's time to go from primary to secondary, or to take them off the burners.

From the plastic fermenters I go to carboys now for secondary, and then I either keg or bottle. Mostly keg. it's easier than bottling, it goes into my refrigerator and stays cool, and it lasts a whole lot longer than a bottle does. ;D

Bottom line is the right tool for the right job man. The twenty gallon stainless steel brew vessels I own are not designed for fermenting, and it would be a waste to use them for that.

Derf is absolutely right when he said that you need a sanitary environment for your primary, especially when it comes to being able to seal your juice up.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

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